trying to avoid repeating past mistakes

[momma-z]

I'm looking for some advice. I'm not desperate. . . yet. . . but I want to avoid falling into the same patterns with my 4.5 month old DS that I had with my 2.5 year old DD. My DD had TERRIBLE sleeping experiences as a baby which didn't begin to improve until she was 18 months old (and waking 10 times a night still). Fortunately, DS has a much calmer temperament than DD. His bedtime is between 7 and 7:30, and I put him in a cradle next to our bed. I usually nurse him until there are pauses in his sucking, and I try to put him down a little awake (I burp him, or move him around a bit as I put him in the cradle) but his eyes are usually closed. He then falls asleep easily. Without fail, he wakes up 45 minutes to 1 hour later, so I walk him around a bit and hum and when he feels a bit limp on my shoulder I put him back in his cradle, pat his tummy, continue to hum, until he's asleep. Sometimes I have to nurse him a bit. From this point on he might go 2-3 hours without waking, or more often he'll start waking up every 10 - 20 minutes until I eventually take him to bed with me when I go to bed. If he goes for 2-3 hours, then I assume he's hungry and I nurse him. But if he wakes up every 10-20 minutes, I'm not sure what to do. I walk around with him, but he gets more and more agitated and I end up nursing him most of the time. I'm afraid he's going to need to nurse to go back to sleep every time, which is exactly what happened with my daughter. She would wake up several times an hour crying and screaming until I put her to my breast. I don't want to do that again. It was awful - she was miserable and exhausted, I was miserable and exhausted. I thought I'd never see it improve. At his first (sometimes second) waking after I go to bed, I bring him into the bed with me until morning. Sometimes he wakes frequently, sometimes not - it's hard to remember in the morning! I'm happy to sleep with him and happy to nurse him to sleep, but I don't want to create stressful habits that could be avoided if I did things differently this time. How can I avoid bad habits and how long a stretch of sleep seems normal at 4.5 months? Any advice would be appreciated. Thank you.

[rzberrymom]

Do you swaddle him? My DD is about the same age and was waking that frequently until I got a really good swaddling blanket (kiddopatamus, miracle blanket, etc.)

[momma-z]

I do swaddle him. For the past few days I've swaddled him with both arms in, but before that I'd started swaddling him with one arm out so he can suck on his fingers, hoping this would help him when he started to wake up. I use a large square flannel blanket, and swaddle Dr.-Harvey-Karp-style and he does try to get his arms out when he wakes up (and he sometimes succeeds!) I'll look into Kiddopotamus and miracle blanket. Thank you.

[To-Fu]

What about letting him sleep with you and do his thing until he's old enough to do some version of the Jay Gordon nightweaning method? Or do you have a partner that could take over some of the nighttime parenting duties when wakings become more frequent?

[natashaccat]

As a mother of two really bad sleepers I really don't think that there is a darn thing you can do to fix an intermittent sleeper. IMO sleeping through the night is a developmental stage that happens in it's own time. All these baby books have brainwashed our culture into thinking that sleep patterns are habitual. Call me crazy but I just don't agree. You can't make a child speak or walk sooner...why should nighttime sleeping be any different?

I think you should do what make things easiest for you right now and let later take care of itself.

[momma-z]

Natashaccat, maybe you're right, that I should just deal with one thing or stage at a time. To-Fu, I do let him sleep with us, once we're in bed and he wakes up (usually within an hour or so of us going to bed). But I put him to bed at 7:00-ish, when he seems tired, and I go to bed around 10:30. So he can't sleep with me until then, unless I carry him.

Last night he woke up every 10-20 minutes until I went to bed, and then he woke up every 20-30 minutes once I brought him into bed with me! It seems that his night waking is increasing. Whew!

[ktmama]

I know it's not popular to say, but I do think your instincts are right about the comfort nursing. You CAN teach your baby that they can only get back to sleep with nursing. So, you can also offer them alternatives. I have three kids and I know from experience. However, different kids do have different sleep patterns and "skills" (if I can use that word). Mine have been all over the place. Very different from each other.

Are you anti-paci? A paci really helps my ds get back to sleep without nursing since he has a high-suck need, but has never gotten the hang of thumb or finger sucking.

I always approach my ds with a strategy of giving him a "chance" to get himself back to sleep. I don't rush in and pick him up right away, but try to help him back to sleep in other ways until it's obvious he needs to be held. I also have set a timeframe for nursing at night that I think is reasonable based on his age. Right now this is three hours after bedtime, five hours after that and then three hours after that. Over time, this has really helped him develop some self soothing techniques. Now, at almost 10 months, he can pretty much get himself to sleep with me (or dh or the sitter) just holding his hand.

I have found the No Cry Sleep Solution, a paci, a lovey, some great Mozart, and my own knowledge of my babies to be the best combination of sleep helpers.

Good luck!

[rzberrymom]

Originally Posted by momma-z

Natashaccat, maybe you're right, that I should just deal with one thing or stage at a time. To-Fu, I do let him sleep with us, once we're in bed and he wakes up (usually within an hour or so of us going to bed). But I put him to bed at 7:00-ish, when he seems tired, and I go to bed around 10:30. So he can't sleep with me until then, unless I carry him.

Do you have a rocking chair? My 4 month old goes into nighttime sleep at around 7:30-8, but I'm not ready for bed until 11 or so. So, my DH takes over with my older kiddo and I sit in the rocking chair with the baby for the evening until I'm ready to go to bed. She nurses frequently, but then once we're all in bed I get a good chunk of sleep out of her.

[rzberrymom]

Originally Posted by ktmama

I also have set a timeframe for nursing at night that I think is reasonable based on his age. Right now this is three hours after bedtime, five hours after that and then three hours after that. Over time, this has really helped him develop some self soothing techniques.

I'm not sure that's a great idea with a 4 month old--I'd be worried about milk supply if you put arbitrary time limits on nursing.

[Louisep]

First, I have a horrible sleeper, so hugs.

That said, I think it's his temperament and not much that I did made a difference. I do wonder though if our using a pacifier prevented ds from being even worse. Will your LO take one?

At 4 months we has great success with a baby hammock but our sleep problems really kicked off at 5 months.

I do wonder about the babies who wake as frequently as 15 mins. (At our worst ds woke every hour). Have you looked into food intolerances and supply issues? How long has it been bad for? (I don't class every 2-3 hours as bad). Could it just be a growth spurt or teething?

Truly, when I look back, there's nothing I would have done differently. My son is just a crappy sleeper like his parents.

[Louisep]

Originally Posted by rzberrymom

I'm not sure that's a great idea with a 4 month old--I'd be worried about milk supply if you put arbitrary time limits on nursing.

Yes, I've read scheduled feedings can result in reduced milk supply too. My baby never cried to be fed (seriously, it was very difficult to know when he was hungry), so I offered frequently based on age. At 4 months that was every 2 hours and at night every time he woke (every 3 hours back then! How blissful that was...).