should I stick to my guns? - Page 2

[ollyoxenfree]

Originally Posted by laohaire

I don't think this is something to compromise over. Folks seem to be thinking "oh, she's too little to understand" or "once won't hurt her." What makes you think South Park won't be on every Monday night for the next 8 years?

I do think it's entirely reasonable to ask that the program be off when your kid is around. I mean, are you seriously saying that if Mom put porn on or some graphically violent video, that you'd still be saying "well, it's her house"? Yes, the OP has every right to ask for it to be off.

Now I do agree that ultimately the OP can't MAKE her mom do this, and if her mom doesn't care enough about it then she needs to find other child care. That's reality. It doesn't mean she doesn't have a right to ask that graphic tv shows be turned off when her toddler is around.

Step-SIL is very strict about what her 7 year old can watch. She has given MIL a list of acceptable shows/channels. MIL seems to (lightly, she doesn't go on about it) think it's a bit strict, but damn straight she follows it.

Yes, she has the right to ASK that certain tv shows be turned off. The OP's mother also has the right to refuse and to decide what happens in her own home. South Park is inappropriate, but it isn't porn - which is a big leap into the sort of outright abusive situation that Children's services could get involved in. I don't think inflating the situation is too helpful to reaching a good solution between family members.

They have to work it out together - someone has to compromise. If the mother refuses, then the OP has to decide the next step - whether to stay or to leave.

[laohaire]

Originally Posted by ollyoxenfree

Yes, she has the right to ASK that certain tv shows be turned off. The OP's mother also has the right to refuse and to decide what happens in her own home. South Park is inappropriate, but it isn't porn - which is a big leap into the sort of outright abusive situation that Children's services could get involved in. I don't think inflating the situation is too helpful to reaching a good solution between family members.

They have to work it out together - someone has to compromise. If the mother refuses, then the OP has to decide the next step - whether to stay or to leave.

I agree that the mom has the right to refuse. But the OP was asking if she was reasonable to ask.

Personally I think the mom is being totally unreasonable by refusing. That is, what I think, is what the OP is trying to figure out. Yes, when faced with unreasonable people you still have the same choices - deal or figure something else out. The OP knows that, but she's trying to get a handle on whether she's being unreasonable or not.

My porn analogy is to show that "it's her house, she can do whatever she wants" is, while technically true, not the point. Yes, mom can show porn in her house, teach the kids how to make meth in the basement, whatever. Obviously there is some line where the mom is not being reasonable. But yes, the choices remain the same - porn or South Park, the OP can ask her mom to stop it, and if she doesn't, she has to decide whether she can live with it or find other childcare.

[SpiderMum]

I'm kinda shocked that most of the replies have been that "she's doing you a favor so you'll just have to deal"....um...my mother watches my daughter on occasion "for free"...but I don't think that I'm out of line expecting her to respect my child and my wishes. What if my mother gives my DD soda at her house? Am I just supposed to deal because she's babysitting for "free"?

I personally love South Park, but it's not something I would have on around a child old enough to pick up stuff. I'd flat out tell her that if she doesn't care what HER KIDS watch, that's fine....but when YOUR DD is there she needs to put some age appropriate on, period.

[limabean]

Originally Posted by nj's_mom

but this is South Park- really mommas, you wouldn't mind if this was on in the backround?!

Yes, I would totally mind. And I would never turn on inappropriate shows like that if I were babysitting someone's kids. But if someone else did so and refused to turn it off while my kid was there, my only other option would be to find alternate childcare, right?

Originally Posted by SpiderMum

I'm kinda shocked that most of the replies have been that "she's doing you a favor so you'll just have to deal"....um...my mother watches my daughter on occasion "for free"...but I don't think that I'm out of line expecting her to respect my child and my wishes. What if my mother gives my DD soda at her house? Am I just supposed to deal because she's babysitting for "free"?

I can see how the posts could be interpreted to say what you posted above, but there's a subtle and important difference. People are saying that if a childcare provider refuses to concede to your wishes regarding care, your only options are to either decide that it's not an issue worth fighting over or find alternate care. That applies to paid childcare too, except in that case the provider might be more willing to comply because they don't want to lose the money. But yeah, if your mom suddenly started giving your DD soda and told you she had no plans to stop after you made it clear it was unacceptable, your only option would be to have someone else watch her, right?

[One_Girl]

It sounds like you and your mom have very different views on what is okay for kids and that you do things one way when you watch her kids and she does things her way. She hasn't complained to you about allowing her kids to do the things they normally do when you watch the kids and she probably expected you to do the same for her. If you are so ready to change childcare arrangements now then there is probably something else going on that you haven't mentioned that makes this the last straw for this arrangement. I think you should follow your gut instinct on this and find other care if a compromise will just never happen. If you are reacting out of anger though, then try asking her if she will limit what your dd watches to the dvd's that you send over and then make sure you send a few over. You can rent child appropriate ones at the library. It is hard for a baby to get used to other care givers so for her sake I hope something can be worked out. Try not to let the mama bear instinct put your child through an unnecessary change that will most likely be hard for her.

[nj's_mom]

Originally Posted by ollyoxenfree

Yes, she has the right to ASK that certain tv shows be turned off. The OP's mother also has the right to refuse and to decide what happens in her own home. South Park is inappropriate, but it isn't porn - which is a big leap into the sort of outright abusive situation that Children's services could get involved in. I don't think inflating the situation is too helpful to reaching a good solution between family members.

They have to work it out together - someone has to compromise. If the mother refuses, then the OP has to decide the next step - whether to stay or to leave.

I don't think that should be the standard--- a childcare provider of any sort- but especially a family member- should know what is appropriate and what is not. This isn't like I'm against her watching some show I just don't like-- this is blatantly innapropriate. I see this as fairly black and white.

[nj's_mom]

Originally Posted by SpiderMum

I'm kinda shocked that most of the replies have been that "she's doing you a favor so you'll just have to deal"....um...my mother watches my daughter on occasion "for free"...but I don't think that I'm out of line expecting her to respect my child and my wishes. What if my mother gives my DD soda at her house? Am I just supposed to deal because she's babysitting for "free"?

I personally love South Park, but it's not something I would have on around a child old enough to pick up stuff. I'd flat out tell her that if she doesn't care what HER KIDS watch, that's fine....but when YOUR DD is there she needs to put some age appropriate on, period.

THANK you!! This is how I see it. I was kind of reading responses with a dropped jaw-- really, this is how people feel? That because my mom is generous enough to offer to watch DD for a few hours, I should accept any and all things that might go on?! And be quiet about it?

I have a hard time with that concept, I guess. Though I am super grateful for her willingness to watch DD, and she is an awesome grandmother. She's just not that great under tons of stress. Who is?!

[nj's_mom]

Originally Posted by laohaire

I agree that the mom has the right to refuse. But the OP was asking if she was reasonable to ask.

Personally I think the mom is being totally unreasonable by refusing. That is, what I think, is what the OP is trying to figure out. Yes, when faced with unreasonable people you still have the same choices - deal or figure something else out. The OP knows that, but she's trying to get a handle on whether she's being unreasonable or not.
My porn analogy is to show that "it's her house, she can do whatever she wants" is, while technically true, not the point. Yes, mom can show porn in her house, teach the kids how to make meth in the basement, whatever. Obviously there is some line where the mom is not being reasonable. But yes, the choices remain the same - porn or South Park, the OP can ask her mom to stop it, and if she doesn't, she has to decide whether she can live with it or find other childcare.

EXACTLY what I bolded--

I understand what my options are, I was more trying to guage whether or not I was being outlandish by seeing an issue and speaking up about it. I feel in my gut that I'm not. If I was upset about there being TV on at all, then yes. But this is different.

And what most concerned me was how unwilling my mother was to discuss this issue with me- yes, we've talked about it before- yes, I've spoken with both kids about being careful about what they watched, and why- and yes, they all understand. They simply think it's too much of an aggravation. The kids hem and haw and roll their eyes and complain to my mother what a bother it is not to be able to play their shoot-and-kill games for the few hours DD is there, and she is so aggravated with that (I think) that she just caves and is irritated with me for not doing the same.

[nj's_mom]

Originally Posted by One_Girl

It sounds like you and your mom have very different views on what is okay for kids and that you do things one way when you watch her kids and she does things her way. She hasn't complained to you about allowing her kids to do the things they normally do when you watch the kids and she probably expected you to do the same for her. If you are so ready to change childcare arrangements now then there is probably something else going on that you haven't mentioned that makes this the last straw for this arrangement. I think you should follow your gut instinct on this and find other care if a compromise will just never happen. If you are reacting out of anger though, then try asking her if she will limit what your dd watches to the dvd's that you send over and then make sure you send a few over. You can rent child appropriate ones at the library. It is hard for a baby to get used to other care givers so for her sake I hope something can be worked out. Try not to let the mama bear instinct put your child through an unnecessary change that will most likely be hard for her.

First of all, I'm not "so ready" to change care arrangements. But I have been over and over this and similar issues with my mother and he reaction is ALWAYS- the world doesn't revolve around DD, live with it. No matter what the issue is. No matter how I go about bringing it up. And frankly it's almost scary to have someone watch your child that feels absolutely no need to conform to any sort of limitations- that YOU as a parent see as fit.

As far as DD suffering for the change, I don't think so. She is a very resilient kid- most kids are- and it wouldn't be a big change. She sees and will still see my mother and the rest of our family at least a few times a week, as always- the new care provider would be someone she already knew and had a close relationship with, most likely family- and since my class schedule is constantly changing with each semester, she's used to a changing schedule. This isn't like switching daycares- which DD has never been in- this is just being with a different beloved family member one night a week.

That said, I haven't made any decision yet. I sent my mother an email this A.M. explaining how I felt. She has yet to get back to me. I'm hoping we can compromise- or at least have a decent discussion about it.

[limabean]

Originally Posted by nj's_mom

I have been over and over this and similar issues with my mother and he reaction is ALWAYS- the world doesn't revolve around DD, live with it. No matter what the issue is. No matter how I go about bringing it up. And frankly it's almost scary to have someone watch your child that feels absolutely no need to conform to any sort of limitations- that YOU as a parent see as fit.

It sounds like your mom just isn't the best fit to watch your DD.

I want to add to my earlier comments that I think it's perfectly reasonable for you not to want your DD to watch South Park, and I would be upset too if my mom was acting the way yours is. Sorry I left out the emotion earlier and just boiled it down to what your options were -- I didn't realize you were more venting and looking for support.

[TiredX2]

Originally Posted by nj's_mom

maybe I need to add a little backround here.

this is not "free" childcare- in exchange for her watching DD for me twice a week for about four hours, I watch her two children both in the A.M.s and the P.M.s until she gets home from work, getting them on and off the bus, making them dinner, etc. which is no big deal, but this is not a case of mother with no help with a toddler added to her plate.

This background actually does change my mind. You are bartering for a service. The question is....Are you unwilling to remove your end of the barter if she will not hold up her end to your satisfaction. Honestly, at 9+ years of age I would talk directing to your siblings. Say something like, "DD is too young to be watching those shows but she really likes to be around her aunts/uncles. Would you be willing to do something else while she is there?" And then be willing to provide the "something else." Would they we willing to watch a Disney Movie as a compromise? Something like Miley Cirus even?

Barring that, I would ask your mother to keep DD out of that room while she is there if inappropriate things were going to be on the TV. She could either have DD "help" her with dinner prep or you could provide something (play dough? color crayons? books to look at?) for DD to do "on her own."

Originally Posted by nj's_mom

THANK you!! This is how I see it. I was kind of reading responses with a dropped jaw-- really, this is how people feel? That because my mom is generous enough to offer to watch DD for a few hours, I should accept any and all things that might go on?! And be quiet about it?

I don't think that is what people meant. My initial reaction was also along the lines of, "Well, you'll just have to live with it" IF you want to keep that babysitting situation. Either paid, or no, if the person refuses to abide by your wishes the only alternative is to no longer accept their services. The difference is, in a paid situation you would have more *percieved* power (because people assume the care provider WANTS to be paid).

Good luck!

[VisionaryMom]

Originally Posted by laohaire

My porn analogy is to show that "it's her house, she can do whatever she wants" is, while technically true, not the point.

In the case of porn, it's not "technically true." Showing porn to children is illegal. Letting them watch South Park isn't.

[choli]

For me, having my child spending her time away from me with family would definitely outweigh sporadic exposure to a TV show that she is far too young to understand. But then, I would have no problem with 9 and 13 yr olds watching South Park, either.

[ollyoxenfree]

Originally Posted by nj's_mom

I don't think that should be the standard--- a childcare provider of any sort- but especially a family member- should know what is appropriate and what is not. This isn't like I'm against her watching some show I just don't like-- this is blatantly innapropriate. I see this as fairly black and white.

Yes, in my earlier post, I've agreed that South Park is inappropriate and that you are reasonable to ask that your dd not watch it. The porn analogy was raised by another poster - not me. It is not the standard that I would use at all. In fact, that's exactly my point. It is entirely unhelpful to conflate your situation with behaviour that would attract the scrutiny of child and legal authorities.

Originally Posted by VisionaryMom

In the case of porn, it's not "technically true." Showing porn to children is illegal. Letting them watch South Park isn't.

Yes. Exactly. If the OP discusses this with her mother again, and tries to compare South Park and porn, her mother will think she's being extreme. She will lose credibility in the discussion, and likely her mother will become far less willing to talk about it.

Originally Posted by nj's_mom

EXACTLY what I bolded--

And what most concerned me was how unwilling my mother was to discuss this issue with me- yes, we've talked about it before- yes, I've spoken with both kids about being careful about what they watched, and why- and yes, they all understand. They simply think it's too much of an aggravation. The kids hem and haw and roll their eyes and complain to my mother what a bother it is not to be able to play their shoot-and-kill games for the few hours DD is there, and she is so aggravated with that (I think) that she just caves and is irritated with me for not doing the same.

Since it's an ongoing problem, and your mother won't resolve it to your satisfaction, then you are right to consider a different childcare solution. You want your child care provider to be someone who is willing to talk to you about issues and who will try to meet your (and your dd's) needs.

Best of luck with this.

[pauletoy]

Since you asked, it is, of course, reasonable for you to talk to your mom about your concerns. However, it is also reasonable for your mom to not share your concerns.

As you know already, your only option is to suck it up or find other childcare.

[pianojazzgirl]

Originally Posted by pauletoy

As you know already, your only option is to suck it up or find other childcare.

Well... yes and no...

For some reason I started thinking about this scenario in the hypothetical - what if it was a disagreement in parenting styles between you and dh. I would hope, that in my relationship at least, there would be room to discuss and compromise. And if the compromise didn't come easily I think it would be worth working on. The relationship between mother and daughter is different than between partners, but it is an important and (often) close relationship. I think that instead of taking the attitude that you need to suck it up or find other childcare, it might be worth some serious effort to reach an agreement with her. This might involve a few attempts before she *gets* what you're saying. Or maybe she never will. And maybe for you it's not worth investing the energy. I guess that's up to you decide, but I thought I'd put it out there.

[Smithie]

I agree with the PP, this is a little more like a parenting/values clash with a spouse than like dealing with a noncompliant babysitter. There are relationships here that you want to preserve.

IF the barter is working out for you, IF you don't feel exploited by 5 days/week of AM and PM care for her kids in exchange for 4 hours/week of PM care for your dd, IF you truly want to keep this arrangement going, then I think you need to compromise here. Decide which is worse, the video games or the unsupervised TV show choices, and tell YOUR SIBLINGS what you'd prefer. Having been through this with two kids already, my experience has been to that I prefer video games to South Park if my toddler is going to be careening through the room. If you offer to buy them a new video game of a slightly less violent/swearing nature, or a boxed DVD set of something they want to watch that is rather better than South Park, that my also help.

Unless you all live in the same house, though, in which case getting a sitter will be pretty darn awkward, I think it's time to ditch this barter arrangement. You are giving too much and getting too little. You are not responsible for your mom's younger kids. Get a paid sitter and spend your mornings and evenings focusing on your own kid. My issue is not so much with the media exposure as with the fact that you seem to be doing so very much for your siblings and getting so very little in return.

[lilmom]

Just wanted to add again, and I hope it helps you feel supported, OP, that if my mother was letting my 2.5 yr old son watch South Park (or any other family member was) I would have a very hard time letting that person care for my child again. I am quite shocked that so many people are ok with it for a toddler. My DS mimics whatever he sees on tv too so I don't get the whole "it's just background" thing.

I hope that your email to your mom ends up with good results!
Hugs to you.