Prevnar 13

[PCARN]

Hi Everyone,

Just wondering where everyone stands with regard to the new Prevnar 13 vaccine. My baby has gotten two doses of the Prevnar 7 vaccine and I'm not sure what to do next. I've been trying to follow Dr. Sears' selective vaccine schedule as much as possible. Although the vaccine has technically been out since I believe 2000, wouldn't the revised vaccine still be considered a 'new' vaccine? For those of you whose babies are due to receive additional prevnar vaccines, what are you planning to do? Would it make sense to get additional Prevnar 7 vaccines instead? Or would that not be worth it to do? I read that the strains in the old Prevnar aren't even prevelant (sp?) anymore? My baby had a reaction to Pentacel. The doctors' believe it was due to Dtap (pertussis in particular). I was always weary when it comes to vaccines and wanted them spaced out from the get go and am even more weary now.

I want to weigh the risks vs. benefits with this vaccine as I know that pneumococcal strains are common. Yet I'm not sure if it would be wise to give a brand new vaccine which I'm assuming it is. According to Dr. Sears' blog aside from the six new strains there are two other new ingredients that are in Prevnar 13 that weren't in the old version. I believe it has to do with preservaties.

Now to add to my already racing mind I wake up to hear in the news that Rotarix was halted adding to my concerns of vaccines!

Thank you so much in advance. I look forward to hearing your opinions/experiences.

[Marnica]

Prevnar 13 has polysorbate 80 in it, prevnar 7 did not. Both have .125mg of aluminum per dose.

I am not objective being a non-vaxer, however I did consider a few vaxes. Prevnar was not one of them. Aluminum is a proven neurotoxin, polysorbate 80 is nasty stuff and there is no way a child would encounter 13 different strains of bacteria at once. Scary IMO. There were so many problems with prevnar, those problems will continue with prevnar 13. They will just make a new one when newer strains become more prevelant.

Some facts about Prevnar:
A pneumonia vaccine reduces the incidence of acute otitis media (AOM, acute ear infection) caused by the bacterium Streptococcus pneumoniae by 34 percent and reduces the overall incidence of AOM by 6 to 8 percent. However, a new study found that children with AOM who were immunized with the heptavalent pneumococcal conjugate vaccine (PCV7) were as likely as nonimmunized children to have nasopharyngeal colonization with S. pneumoniae and were more likely to have other types of bacteria in their nasopharynx. The nasopharynx is located at the back of the throat and has two passages leading to the inner ear, through which bacteria can travel.

Source:
"Effect of pneumococcal conjugate vaccine on nasopharyngeal bacterial colonization during acute otitis media," by Krystal Revai, M.D., M.P.H., David P. McCormick, M.D., Janak Patel, M.D., and others in the May 2006 Pediatrics 117(5), pp. 1823-1829.


There is also serotype replacement to think about:
[QUOTE]Increases in the incidence of serotype 19A associated with otitis [14], mastoiditis [15], and invasive disease [16–18] have been described in multiple US settings since 2000, making it impossible to ignore the temporal association between the introduction of PCV7 and the emergence of serotype 19A. It seemed safe to assume that PCV7 had caused replacement with serotype 19A.
Source: The Journal of Infectious Diseases 2009;199:771–773

here are some studies about prevnar you may find helpful
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-st...ne-808633.html
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16651345
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18845981
http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content...ct/298/15/1772


this WHO bulletin claims pneumonia is not reduced by prevnar
http://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes/86/08-054692.pdf

[PCARN]

Thanks

Marnica,

Thank you so much for your reply. I really appreciate your taking the time to provide all the information. You've given me a lot to think about. The links were really helpful too (two of the links I couldn't connect with though, I was wondering if you could repost them again when you have a moment as I would love to read them).

You made a very valid point. The emergence of this new strain (due to the old vaccine?) called for a new, increased strain vaccine. Will this happen again as it did with Prevnar 7 thus needing yet another new vaccine? Makes one wonder for sure.

Thank you again so much.

[Marnica]

My pleasure...

I fixed one of the links, however the pediatrics study link is now dead....hmmm. I replaced it with another article of interest.

As for your question, yes. Please look into serotype replacement. There is an excellent 3 part series on it here:
http://insidevaccines.com/wordpress/...gate-vaccines/
and these address the topic too.
http://insidevaccines.com/wordpress/pneumococcal/
http://insidevaccines.com/wordpress/...ition-library/

This has been discussed extensively on these boards. You could probably do a search and find numerous threads.

Even if the actual vaccines were safe (which IMO they are not), this issue is till a major concern for me and would be enough for me to decline. Human beings are so arrogant to believe they can outsmart mother nature. These strains of bacteria have evolved with humans over thousands of years and a delicate balance was created which we are now royally screwing up. I believe science's relentless pursuit to wipe out all bacteria that may be harmful in humans and at times cause death will create bigger problems. Nature abhors a vacuum. There will always he a bigger badder bug to take the place of one that has been conquered.

[PCARN]

Thanks

Marnica- Thank you again so much for taking the time to reply and add the links. I appreciate it.

[Deborah]

Bumping because of ongoing concerns about Prevnar 13. Prevnar 7 was the first blockbuster vaccine, I wonder what they are hoping to rake in with this one?

[amnesiac]

I heard it costs about $20 more than PCV7 per dose.

[Deborah]

http://www.thepharmaletter.com/file/...s-outlook.html

The vaccine expected to become Pfizer's top seller after its all-time mega blockbuster cholesterol-lowering drug Lipitor (atorvastatin) loses patent protection next year. Pfizer itself has estimated the new vaccine could add $1.5 billion sales to the Prevenar franchise.

The article mentions the price as 30% higher or $108 per dose.

http://www.pediatricsupersite.com/view.aspx?rid=61256

Prevnar 13 is recommended to be administered as a four-dose series at 2, 4, 6, and 12 to 15 months of age.

The ACIP recommended using Prevnar 13 to immunize infants and toddlers, as well as in children aged 60 through 71 months with underlying medical conditions. They also recommended a supplemental dose for children through 59 months of age who have completed the four-dose immunization series PCV7. In addition, the ACIP said children who have started their immunization series with Prevnar should complete the series by switching to Prevnar 13 at any point in the schedule.

Four doses comes to $432 at retail prices. I vaguely remember that Prevnar 7 originally ran about $250 for three doses.

[amnesiac]

This is the updated one:
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/programs...price-list.htm

B-18 has the PCV7:
https://docsimmunize.org/immunize/cd...pdx-full-b.pdf

So it looks more like about $30/dose more with the actual cost depending on whether you're talking about public or private price.

[Deborah]

http://www.wyeth.com/content/showlabeling.asp?id=501

see page 5 for a description of the safety testing process.

The vaccine was compared to the previous Prevnar.

If I recall correctly, the original Prevnar was compared to an experimental vaccine. Let me see if I can find the story.

From the ACIP recommendations, look at page 23 of the PDF
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/PDF/rr/rr4909.pdf

In the Northern California Kaiser Permanente efficacy trial, rates of adverse events were compared between children who received PCV7 and those who received the control vaccine (investigational group C meningococcal conjugate). Routine childhood vaccines were administered concurrently with PCV7 and control vaccines.*

[13Sandals]

Originally Posted by PCARN

You made a very valid point. The emergence of this new strain (due to the old vaccine?) called for a new, increased strain vaccine. Will this happen again as it did with Prevnar 7 thus needing yet another new vaccine? Makes one wonder for sure.

Nail on the head. The scientists really think they can 'outrun' bacterial evolution. Really. Can you imagine? The scary thing is what if, what if say, strain 10 of Prevnar 13, is not terribly harmful to humans but has been crowding out strain 22(as yet undiscovered) which is lethal to humans. Prevnar 13 knocks out strain 10 - now strain 22 has room to play. These are 'long-term' side-effects. Long-term studies aren't big pharma's strong suit.

The best bet is a strong immune system.

[13Sandals]

Originally Posted by Deborah

http://www.wyeth.com/content/showlabeling.asp?id=501

see page 5 for a description of the safety testing process.

The vaccine was compared to the previous Prevnar.

If I recall correctly, the original Prevnar was compared to an experimental vaccine. Let me see if I can find the story.

From the ACIP recommendations, look at page 23 of the PDF
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/PDF/rr/rr4909.pdf

I never saw that, Deb! That's like the 'study' last year comparing women who received the flu vaccine compared to women who received the pneumonia vaccine. The flu vaccine group had heavier babies on average, so they concluded the flu vaccine helps grow bigger babies. Who can look at this stuff and not think big pharma runs the health organizations???

[Deborah]

Yes, it boggles the mind.

And the new Prevnar was safety tested by comparing it to the old Prevnar, which was safety tested by comparing it to an experimental vaccine.

Step right up, folks, step right up.

[nicolebeth]

It's unbelievable the way they do the studies on alleged safety. So, the new one is compared to the old one? Well, DS reacted to one Prevnar with a 104 fever, and to another one by getting completely loopy and unable to focus or relax. We now attribute both reactions to the aluminum.

So, I'm not planning on #3 getting it or the new one. Because of the aluminum.

[Deborah]

oh, come on nicolebeth, don't you understand the way it works? correlation doesn't correspond to causation or something like that. so if your DS had a 104 fever and after another dose got "loopy and unable to focus or relax" it is probably just consecutive coincidences...or something like that.

There is also the exclusion of children with health problems from the safety studies followed by their inclusion in the groups to be vaccinated after approval.

All of this together contributes to MY doubts about the safety of the vaccine program.

[nicolebeth]

Originally Posted by Deborah

oh, come on nicolebeth, don't you understand the way it works? correlation doesn't correspond to causation or something like that. so if your DS had a 104 fever and after another dose got "loopy and unable to focus or relax" it is probably just consecutive coincidences...or something like that.

It is true, when I called in about the fever, they said "oh, that NEVER happens with Prevnar and Hib" (we had done the two together, going on the Hib is "never reactive" theory). Anyway, I had the sheet in front of me when I called. The high fever actually IS a listed reaction, just so "rare" that they didn't believe it would happen. (Or, most parents didn't call in and just thought it was normal.) We did leave that practice. The new practice had an equally-in-denial nurse, but she has since left the practice...

I love that correlation doesn't correspond to causation remark...it's harder for vaccine-reaction deniers to claim that when a kid gets the measles from the measles vaccine, for instance. (Oh, it's just a mere "viral rash" from the vaccine.) Or, if thrice-vaccinated people get mumps (oh, we all just need more boosters--of course, the vaccine works). Etc.

[TiffanyW]

I know this post is old, but I just wanted to share my experience with Prevnar 13.  My daughter got bacterial pneumonia in April 2010.  In September 2010 I took her in to get a flu shot and I inquired about Prevnar because I wanted to protect her from the new strains.  She had already had all the Prevnar that was required.  My son was sick at the time, so he did not get the prevnar or the flu shot that day.  My daughter got both.  The Prevnar in the left leg.  After the shot she complained of her left leg hurting...I will try to spare every detail to you but about 3-4 hours after her shot she starting running an extremely high fever and starting severely vomiting and was so lethargic she was basically passing out on me.  I tried tylenol and ibuproifen but she threw up.  I called a neighbor to take my son and I put her in the car and drove to the hospital.  Her tongue looked swollen and she was drooling and out of it.  he administered an epi pen at the hospital and gave her several other meds and eventually her fever subsided.  I don't know if it was an allergic reaction or what, but it was definitely something and definitely due to one of those vaccines.  I am leaning more toward the Prevnar because she complained of that leg after her shot.  Now I am scared to get her any future vaccines.  I am a nervous wreck trying to decide whether or not to get her a flu shot this year.  She is in preschool now and I worry about her being exposed.  Next year she gets her 4 year old shots and I am already anxious about it.  Her Dr and I have already argued over her getting the shots.  Her Pediatrician is very Pro vaccine.  I just wanted to share that with all of you.  If your child does not have to have the Prevnar 13, don't dot it.  I don't know what is do difference between it and the previous one, but I have never been more scared in my entire life. 

[lokidoki]

Originally Posted by TiffanyW 

I know this post is old, but I just wanted to share my experience with Prevnar 13.  My daughter got bacterial pneumonia in April 2010.  In September 2010 I took her in to get a flu shot and I inquired about Prevnar because I wanted to protect her from the new strains.  She had already had all the Prevnar that was required.  My son was sick at the time, so he did not get the prevnar or the flu shot that day.  My daughter got both.  The Prevnar in the left leg.  After the shot she complained of her left leg hurting...I will try to spare every detail to you but about 3-4 hours after her shot she starting running an extremely high fever and starting severely vomiting and was so lethargic she was basically passing out on me.  I tried tylenol and ibuproifen but she threw up.  I called a neighbor to take my son and I put her in the car and drove to the hospital.  Her tongue looked swollen and she was drooling and out of it.  he administered an epi pen at the hospital and gave her several other meds and eventually her fever subsided.  I don't know if it was an allergic reaction or what, but it was definitely something and definitely due to one of those vaccines.  I am leaning more toward the Prevnar because she complained of that leg after her shot.  Now I am scared to get her any future vaccines.  I am a nervous wreck trying to decide whether or not to get her a flu shot this year.  She is in preschool now and I worry about her being exposed.  Next year she gets her 4 year old shots and I am already anxious about it.  Her Dr and I have already argued over her getting the shots.  Her Pediatrician is very Pro vaccine.  I just wanted to share that with all of you.  If your child does not have to have the Prevnar 13, don't dot it.  I don't know what is do difference between it and the previous one, but I have never been more scared in my entire life. 

I cannot give you comfort regarding non-vaxing ~ you need to find that yourself or else you will never feel secure. I will say that I have a 5 1/2 year old son and a 4 month old son ~ neither of which are vaxed or have ever been vaxed. We concentrate our efforts on keeping our babies healthy by making sure they eat healthy, take extra vitamin C, etc. We use many natural alternatives to medicine around this house...and the very few times my DS1 has been sick...it has never been for but a day or two (3 at the most). He has never had anti-biotics and he is a healthy little horse!

Getting a flu vaccine does not keep your child "safe" or protected from the many flu strains that are out there. It might help with a handful of flu strains if you believe it actually works (I do not) ~ but the flu generally does not kill perfectly healthy children. They fight it and their immune systems generally win.

IMO ~ if my child had that kind of a reaction to a vaccine ~ I would never vax again...but that is me, and I am perfectly content with my decision to not vax my children. Read a lot here in this forum...you will see many others who have experienced the same or similar reactions!
 

[MommyOfBoys03]

I know this is an old thread, however it is the first one I have came accross that speaks about a parent's concern with Prevnar 13. Here's why I am freaked out and trying to gain as much info as possible:

Yesterday I took my 20 month old son for his vaccines (we are a little behind with the vaccine schedule). The nurse came in and pricked my sons finger to check his iron levels which came back perfect. My son wasn't scared at all with the poke, infact he was intrigued. Next came the first vaccine of the day, Prevnar 13. The nurse poked him with the needle, injected the medication, and instantly my son went into a full-blown seizure and passed out. Emergency personnel had to come in and help wake him up. This all happened in front of my other two boys, 4 and 5 years old. They have been so freaked out after witnessing their baby brother seize up. The doctor played it off that my son had held his breath and passed out, and sent us home. Later that evening, my son vomitted. Today I took him to the ER and after a brain scan we found no problems, bleeding or swelling in his brain. So why would a normal, healthy baby boy have this reaction? All the pediatricians are trying to tell me it has nothing to do with the vaccine. How do they get that conclussion? It was almost a smultaneous reaction. Anyways, thats my story. Im doing research to find out whether or not we are going to continue with vaccinations.

[purslaine]

Report the reaction to VAERs.

I am not thinking kind thoughts towards your doctor for writing it off as breath holding  

The rapidity of the seizure seems a little odd, though.  How quickly is medicine absorbed through an injection?  Hopefully someone knowledgable and unbiased will come along at answer (preferably with citations).  I am out of my league on this one.

Personally, I would not vax (disclosure: I am non-vax) until the issue was sorted out and I had time to research the situation. You can always give a vax in the future - you cannot undo one.

I am glad your baby boy seems well now!

kathy