S/O - choosing hospital birth after UC

[honey-lilac]

I think there's a slight difference from the other thread that I saw just now because in my view an attended homebirth and a UC are similar but significantly different. In a UC you take all the responsibility (for better or worse).

I had an OK hospital birth center birth (unmedicated, fast, but midwives annoyed me) for DS. For DD I then chose to UC. I hate having anyone around while birthing and made very little progress unless I was left to my own devices. The UC was fantastic.

We have since moved. For my UC we were literally a block and a half away from the hospital. We are now about 20 minutes from a hospital - not too bad. We are planning to move to a very rural area, though. It makes me wonder about how comfortable I would be doing another UC. I am not in a situation where I have to pick a birthing place right now but I imagine I might choose a hospital birth in that scenario. Maybe. I don't know.

My concern would be how *I* would deal with the hospital staff. I would get angry, yes angry, at routine interventions. I guess every birth is different but the last two have gone quickly and smoothly and I did not want ANYONE (doula, midwife, anyone) touching me, talking to me, heck even looking at me. Total trance inwards iykwim. If someone had come in to interrupt me, or God forbid to a cervical check... That focus would be lost. In DS's birth DH said something to me at one point and I took two contractions to come out of my trance long enough to figure out what he meant, then wave him off and go back. And that was ONE distraction, never mind repeated. I know hospitals don't like "bad patients" who just refuse everything. It's like, why would we even be there in the first place? And I fear FTP if I feel observed or conflicted. (My first labor only kicked in when everyone left me in the room by myself for a few hours.)

Has anyone had a hospital birth after a good UC? How do you give up that sense of autonomy and responsibility and such, when you accept other caregivers (when you don't necessarily want the care)?

[Gena 22]

I have not had a UC, just a homebirth, but I can sympathize with what you're saying. I would love to have a UC. But part of my comfort in HBing was being very close to a decent hospital.

In your shoes - after moving to a rural area and getting pregnant, I'd have a hotel UC near the hospital. Not ideal, but without the interference. No hospital birth experience, but from what I've heard it'll be hard to stay in your trance.

Good luck!

[sanguine_speed]

I understand the concern even though I have not had a UC. I had a breech that had to take place in the hospital OR be UC (midwives not able to attend here or risk license). I hated the threats, the busy nurses, the interventions, the even driving there.
But alas, the choice.

Just sympathy for having to make that kind of decision.

[Right of Passage]

Originally Posted by honey-lilac

I think there's a slight difference from the other thread that I saw just now because in my view an attended homebirth and a UC are similar but significantly different. In a UC you take all the responsibility (for better or worse).

I had an OK hospital birth center birth (unmedicated, fast, but midwives annoyed me) for DS. For DD I then chose to UC. I hate having anyone around while birthing and made very little progress unless I was left to my own devices. The UC was fantastic.

We have since moved. For my UC we were literally a block and a half away from the hospital. We are now about 20 minutes from a hospital - not too bad. We are planning to move to a very rural area, though. It makes me wonder about how comfortable I would be doing another UC. I am not in a situation where I have to pick a birthing place right now but I imagine I might choose a hospital birth in that scenario. Maybe. I don't know.

My concern would be how *I* would deal with the hospital staff. I would get angry, yes angry, at routine interventions. I guess every birth is different but the last two have gone quickly and smoothly and I did not want ANYONE (doula, midwife, anyone) touching me, talking to me, heck even looking at me. Total trance inwards iykwim. If someone had come in to interrupt me, or God forbid to a cervical check... That focus would be lost. In DS's birth DH said something to me at one point and I took two contractions to come out of my trance long enough to figure out what he meant, then wave him off and go back. And that was ONE distraction, never mind repeated. I know hospitals don't like "bad patients" who just refuse everything. It's like, why would we even be there in the first place? And I fear FTP if I feel observed or conflicted. (My first labor only kicked in when everyone left me in the room by myself for a few hours.)

Has anyone had a hospital birth after a good UC? How do you give up that sense of autonomy and responsibility and such, when you accept other caregivers (when you don't necessarily want the care)?

I disagree with the bolded. I'm a homebirther, I prefer to be attended by midwives, but I just had an accidental UC. I feel no matter midwife or alone the outcome is solely my responsiblity. It is my job to speak up if I feel something is wrong. I'm also very instinctual, I trust what my body is telling me, I listen to what it needs or what it's warning me off. Not everybody is able to do this so it can't apply to everyone.

But for you, you do not have to give up your autonomy and responsibility to birth in the hospital. It's about choosing a careprovider that will work with you, that will feel part of your team vs. taking over your birth and pregnancy. I hope that makes sense!

I had a good hospital birth before my accidental UC, if that's worth anything. My VBAC hospital birth was fine, there was no time for routine intervention, except for the gown. I was very in control and in charge. They had no control, it was all in my hands, someone just caught my baby.

[MittensKittens]

I think I would be the patient from hell, especially in this birthing environment. Apart from refusing any and all routine interventions, I think I could not reach by zen birthing trance with people around, pretty much like you mention. My UC birth was MUCH quicker than my previous, midwife attended homebirth. I am convinced that being solo helped me relax and progress quicker. I would personally not choose a hospital birth unless truly medically necessary. A transverse baby or a complete previa are the only two that come to mind, but there may be other reasons.

[*MamaJen*]

Originally Posted by honey-lilac

My concern would be how *I* would deal with the hospital staff. I would get angry, yes angry, at routine interventions. I guess every birth is different but the last two have gone quickly and smoothly and I did not want ANYONE (doula, midwife, anyone) touching me, talking to me, heck even looking at me. Total trance inwards iykwim. If someone had come in to interrupt me, or God forbid to a cervical check... That focus would be lost. In DS's birth DH said something to me at one point and I took two contractions to come out of my trance long enough to figure out what he meant, then wave him off and go back. And that was ONE distraction, never mind repeated.

I know, totally. I couldn't imagine trying to give birth with that many distractions. I also had a mw-attended homebirth, but she was very hands-off and respected the birth space. I went off into total trancy labor-land and had a really easy birth. I see images of hospital birth and I couldn't imagine trying to labor with people talking to me and prodding me and poking me.
There was only one moment in labor I didn't like. I had one cervical check right at the start, which was fine, and one in the midst of transition, which really kind of sucked. Beforehand I had agreed to limited checks, and in the midst of labor I didn't have the words or presence of mind to refuse it, even though I had a great rapport with the midwife. For my next labor that's the only thing I would change -- no cervical checks in transition.
I think I would be a pretty crappy hospital patient. But I know how hard it is to speak up during labor, so really, if I were in that situation maybe I would just do as I was told. Which is all the more reason to avoid a hospital birth for me.

[honey-lilac]

Originally Posted by Right of Passage

I disagree with the bolded. I'm a homebirther, I prefer to be attended by midwives, but I just had an accidental UC. I feel no matter midwife or alone the outcome is solely my responsiblity. It is my job to speak up if I feel something is wrong. I'm also very instinctual, I trust what my body is telling me, I listen to what it needs or what it's warning me off. Not everybody is able to do this so it can't apply to everyone.

I see your point. For me, I get very nervous in the face of authority. It's either me getting angry/rebellious or becoming submissive (usually the latter, as I don't like conflict, I just get angry inside). I am *not* good at standing up for myself when someone considers themselves an authority. Most midwives and doctors are authorities. Many do indeed realize that women are also authorities of their own bodies, but I'd be afraid that I'd get the one that had a high and mighty complex.

For example I had one midwife tell me forcefully that I should push in THIS way instead of the way I wanted to. She then told me that I had to sit on the toilet and labor - I felt so humiliated but was unable to stand up for myself (I was so deep in laborland I couldn't talk). But I felt humiliated. I also had, in earlier labor, a desire to go to the bathroom. The nurse panicked and said I wasn't allowed to, because I would have the baby in there. She was banging on the door and screaming at me until I came out. It was humiliating. (I then ended up getting it all out during pushing - again pretty embarrassing.) Again, neither of those cases (directed pushing or the nurse getting upset I was in the bathroom) were life and death "birth traumas" or anything of the sort - but I was made to act in ways that were against my instincts, and it was (mildly) distressing to me at the time. And those were very benign things. I can only imagine what would happen if there was something more significant come up.

I know hiring a doula might help but I'm hesitant, as the fewer people around the better and technically a doula doesn't have that much power as far as medical procedures or personell; she can provide comfort measures but I don't want any of those, typically.

[Right of Passage]

Don't forget a doula can protect your space.

Babe in arms otherwise I'd type more but I'll leave you with a wish for the best in your future birthings. I hope it's nothing but a positive and empowering expeirence.

[zoebird]

this is an interesting thing to think about.

foremost, if we are talking about my context--living in the city and close to hospital (i can walk there, but would likely take a cab)--then it is unlikely that i would choose to have a hospital birth *unless* i felt strongly drawn to having one. i believe that i would feel drawn to having one if there was an intuition (or indication) that i or the child would require medical assistance immediately or during birth.

in which case, i would very likely suss out the right HCP for me, and then plan accordingly.

in a situation such as your described context (20 minutes away now--which was my context when i UCed--and possibly more rural in the future), the first question I would ask is what my needs are.

one of the reasons that I UC is because i see birth as normal, and more likely to go normally with the least amount of interventions and hinderances. this is often most easily achieved via UC, but can also be achieved with MWs.

but, if i also had an emotional need to be close to a hospital--which is a perfectly valid need--then i would need to balance this emotional need with my other need, which is to birth normally, without hinderances or interventions.

my first choice, then, would be to choose a free standing birth center. by in large, although there are interruptions, interventions, rules, and hinderances, they are less invasive than what would be at a hospital (in general). and, depending upon the particular birth center, they may even be very low in interruptions, interventions, rules, and hinderances.

this birth center would facilitate a relationship with the hospital, and provide a save birthing environment for me to have a normal birth that is close to the hospital--and thereby balancing both of my needs.

if a birth center is unavailable, i would have to weigh whether or not the need for closeness to the hospital outweighed the needs related to UCing, and also thoroughly contemplate whether or not i felt i would need the hospital (realistically) or if i was using it like a security blanket.

there's nothing wrong with a security blanket in this regard. i would just beg the question for myself whether or not the need for the hospital to be close would outweigh my needs related to choosing UC, such that i would then choose the hospital over the UC, even a rural UC.

if i decided that a hospital would be best--because my need for it outweighed my needs for choosing to UC in a rural setting--then i would work diligently to find a practitioner who is as like minded to michael odent as humanly possible. i would look for care providers who have low intervention rates, and also see which hospitals (if there are multiple that i could choose from) are likely to have low rates.

and if possible, i would probably choose a nurse midwife practice that works within the hospital as well, to help promote a low intervention/low interruption birth.

[zoebird]

and, it is likely that i would go all "scientology" about birth. no speaking to the mother unless abslutely necessary, please observe silence around the mother, etc.

[sioleabha]

This is pretty much exactly what I am facing with this pregnancy, except that there were complications with my UBAC. Basically, I had HORRIBLE hospital experiences with my first two babies. My third was UBAC, but we had a little trouble and had to transfer to the hospital after she was born. After that my husband was squeamish, so we compromised by doing unassisted pregnancies, but having the baby in the hospital. Then my youngest son was born via necessary c-section, and now my husband has asked me to please get an OB and do the whole medical pregnancy thing.

In my heart, I am a UCer. I know my body. I knew that my first baby was ok and didn't need a c-section, but the hospital forced it on me. I knew that my second baby could be born VBAC, and he was, but the hospital did everything possible to ruin it for me. I know what went "wrong" with my UBAC, and it's nothing we could have prevented or done differently -- I believe it was actually the best possible birth for the birth it was going to be, and my daughter is now a happy, healthy 5 year old. (My fourth pregnancy / birth actually went great.) When I was pregnant with my youngest, I *knew* that something was wrong, and I actually sought out care, but the doctors missed it. (And, other than having a c-section, it still turned out well!)

But I also understand why my husband wants me to get a doctor and go to the hospital. I would prefer a midwife at a birthing center, and he'd be all for that, but it's not allowed where I live. I'm just terribly nervous about having to do all the routine stuff that I *know* is unnecessary. That's not why I want a doctor -- I don't want him to test me for a bunch of things that are probably NOT going to go wrong, I want him to look for the things I actually have a risk for and be there in case I need him for something. I'm so nervous that I've whined about it all over MDC, and I haven't even had my first prenatal, yet! (It's tomorrow, wish me luck!)

[zoebird]

do you have MWs who work in the hospitals?

this was common where i lived before. we did have freestanding birth centers, and homebirth midwives (very few of those left), but what was covered by insurance was midwives who work in hospitals (nurse practitioner midwives).

this might be a middle of the road option for you.

[sioleabha]

Originally Posted by zoebird

do you have MWs who work in the hospitals?

this was common where i lived before. we did have freestanding birth centers, and homebirth midwives (very few of those left), but what was covered by insurance was midwives who work in hospitals (nurse practitioner midwives).

this might be a middle of the road option for you.

I don't know if this was a response to me or the OP, but where I live the only hospital midwives I have heard of are more medical than my OB.