I need to clarify about the chicken pox vax.

[snowqueen]

If a child gets the chicken pox vax, that means that he/she could still get the chicken pox but a milder case, and even if he/she doesn't, they can eventually get the shingles anyway?

If they don't get the chicken pox vax, that means that he/she could get chicken pox then eventually shingles correct?

If they get the chicken pox virus naturally, they still can get the shingles?

I am trying to see the benefit of giving my 15 mo old the vax or not. I know I had the chicken pox really bad and ended up in the hospital when I was 6 yrs old. I saw a youtube video of a woman who had a 3 year old that got the chicken pox and formed scar tissue on the brain. It broke off and the child had a stroke. I know it's generally a mild disease, but it can be severe in some. I just don't know what to do and I am concerned of the risks of giving him the vax also. He doesn't seem to do well with vaxs. I think if I do give it to him, I will wait until he is going to school. I think he is low risk right now because he is not in daycare and not around other children, unless he goes to the pediatrician or I take him to the mall.

[2boyzmama]

The risk/benefit analysis is going to be different for every individual.

You are basically correct that with or without the vax, a person can still get chicken pox, and can still get shingles. In fact, since the introduction of the vax, shingles has increased (someone link to that, though...I don't have the link) Shingles happens when the dormant chicken pox virus suddenly becomes active again. One way to keep it dormant is to have continuous exposure to the virus, for example as an adult you are exposed again when your children get chicken pox. But now that chicken pox is not circulating like it used to, adults are not exposed.

It is *exceedingly* rare that someone would have a serious complication from chicken pox, but yes it does happen. I, also, was hospitalized as a child (6 years old, I had a "pox party" for my 6th birthday, with a pox cake and everyone got pox drawn on their faces, etc) I had the pox literally everywhere, including in my nose, in my mouth, in my ear canals, and even on my vagina. I ended up with secondary infections in my nose, mouth, ears, and a UTI. I actually became anemic because of severe nose bleeds. And all of that without any known underlying medical issues (like an immune deficiency).

I was one of those rare cases where complications occurred. But, I was fine. And now I'm *very* immune

My middle son has a Primary Immune Deficiency that puts him at risk for similar complications, as well as multiple underlying medical issues (birth defects from a chromosomal deletion) so I was very worried about chicken pox for him. However, because of his immune deficiency, he also can't have the vaccine. He did get chicken pox, and he was surprisingly fine. A few spots got infected, some topical cream was all it took. He shed the virus for a very long time (9 weeks) but he wasn't sick with it (no fever, not even any crankiness!). He's not immune (we had him tested) so we expect to go through it again.

In cases like ours, where there is an underlying complication, the vaccine could be beneficial. Children like my son benefit from other people vaccinating their kids. HOWEVER, I would never ask anyone to do that for my son. And I did not vaccinate my older son, nor will I vaccinate my younger son.

Chicken pox does not worry me in the slightest, and honestly did not worry ANY parents until the vaccine came out. Now suddenly it's a big scary illness. It's interesting how that happens, huh?

So you'll have to determine for yourself the risk/benefit analysis. And it might vary child to child even within a family. My older son has no health issues and I actually was seeking out wild chicken pox. My younger son appears to have no health issues, as he gets older I'll again be seeking it out. My middle son is a special case. Only you can decide if your child is a special case.

[JBaxter]

IF they get the vaccine it is SUPPOSED to be a milder case. Not so in my house. My oldest had the vaccine and had a WICKED case of chicken pox.

I have heard your not supposed to get shingles after you have the vaccine but I know of 2 toddlers in the area who have had shingles were vaccinated

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by snowqueen

If a child gets the chicken pox vax, that means that he/she could still get the chicken pox but a milder case, and even if he/she doesn't, they can eventually get the shingles anyway?

If they don't get the chicken pox vax, that means that he/she could get chicken pox then eventually shingles correct?

If they get the chicken pox virus naturally, they still can get the shingles?

I am trying to see the benefit of giving my 15 mo old the vax or not. I know I had the chicken pox really bad and ended up in the hospital when I was 6 yrs old. I saw a youtube video of a woman who had a 3 year old that got the chicken pox and formed scar tissue on the brain. It broke off and the child had a stroke. I know it's generally a mild disease, but it can be severe in some. I just don't know what to do and I am concerned of the risks of giving him the vax also. He doesn't seem to do well with vaxs. I think if I do give it to him, I will wait until he is going to school. I think he is low risk right now because he is not in daycare and not around other children, unless he goes to the pediatrician or I take him to the mall.

Personally from some of the reseach Ive done, I believe that many of the "serious complications" in those rare cases are from how the disease is handled. I was 18 when I got CP...it was a bad case (no complications however) and this is the age group (older teens and adults) where it is supposed to dangerous. We work with an ND and if DS were to get CP, I would be glad. I feel confident that we could treat him naturally and support him in a way that would minimize any riak of complications. I don't vax at all, but IMO the CP vax (along with the Hep B...and I mean for kids who are born to hep b negative moms) are the most ridiculous vaccines on the market.
You could probably find a youtube video about a child dying from the common cold. ANY illness has the potential to be deadly, but if you thought about it, you'd drive yourself bonkers and never leave the house. You said yourself you child doesn't do well with vaxes (sounds like there have been some adverse reactions in the past). I would take that as a huge red flag here. JMHO

[serenbat]

I believe that many of the "serious complications" in those rare cases are from how the disease is handled.

What do you mean but this?

I was put in a Dr. care within 5 hours of my first pox and had a severe case as an adult. I was placed on medication within the first few hours and still had complications and I know others also under-care as well that reacted severely.

[MyBoysBlue]

This is about the medical mismanagement that can cause some kids to die.

CHICKEN POX: Why Do Children Die?
http://www.garynull.com/Documents/Va...ckenPoxWhy.htm

[serenbat]

when you have "serious complications" it is NOT at all always the fault of the Dr.s and it's misleading to imply it in all cases.

Having has them in my throat and in my nose and unable to breath, I know, there was NOTHING that my Dr. could have done to prevent this.

Serious Complications to happen and no one is at fault.

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by serenbat

when you have "serious complications" it is NOT at all always the fault of the Dr.s and it's misleading to imply it in all cases.

Having has them in my throat and in my nose and unable to breath, I know, there was NOTHING that my Dr. could have done to prevent this.

Serious Complications to happen and no one is at fault.

No one here has said or even implied that ALL cases of CP where there have been serious consequences have been medically mismanaged. Nothing is ever an absolute. However I believe based on what I have learned through my own research and the anecdotal evidence that has been shared with me by both natural and alloptahic medical providers, that many cases of CP that are handled allopathically can and have resulted in more severe consequences than if they had been handled naturally.
You said that you were put under the care of a doctor within hours of your first pox...why? and you say that despite this, you still had complications. This makes me wonder what early, possibly unneccesary intervention was done with you that may have actually resulted in those complications...you said you know others who have been under a doctor's care from early on that have still had severe complications...this is excatly my point. All I'm saying is that it makes me wonder.

[serenbat]

In my case, my 8 year old daughter had a very bad case (in her nose, that made breathing bad, as well as a high fever and her body was covered) my Dr was well aware that regardless of countless exposure, I had never had them- I caught them from her and contacted my Dr ASAP, and prior I had been under his care so he knew if I got them what I should and should not do-- take any aspirin (what is advised for adults that know they are exposed prior to contact)- I ran a fever of 104, I started right away with pox in my throat, nose, under my eyelids, in my ears, etc-I was far worse than my daughter, I need oxygen to breath, not to mention , I need pain killers (I did not itch) and medication to less than effects, I was given herpes zoster. My fever only began to lessen after three days. The pain was unbearable, child birth was nothing compared to pox! The herpes zoster helped control the spreading. I was in bed for over a week and refused to go to the hosp for morphine, instead took other meds at home. In no way would I say I was mishandled by my Dr., in fact with out the medication I received I believe I would have been far worse off and I doubt that any natural way would have helped. I do not feel my pox were in any way complicated by the treatment I had.

I have never found statistics that show the % of adults or children that have complications.

[jessjgh1]

Originally Posted by JBaxter

I have heard your not supposed to get shingles after you have the vaccine but I know of 2 toddlers in the area who have had shingles were vaccinated

That is NOT correct. There is some literature that may state that if you get shingles it may be a milder case, but the chicken pox vaccine does NOT protect from getting shingles.
And it does seem that the chicken pox vaccine has changed the cycles of the shingles with shingles being more common now and occurring among young children and adults more often than before the vaccine was widely used in the US.
Jessica

[snowqueen]

Thanks for the replies everyone! I really appreciated it and it gave me a lot to think about.

[PrincessAnika]

also fwiw, DH sister is 10 - vaxed - and had the cpox over the winter; was not a more mild case but also was not the worst possible. sad part was first trip to dr, 'oh its not cpox is pityriasis rosea' (sp?) on a fri, sat she had a girl scouts event, tues or wed back to dr 'hey its cpox' - MIL was furious.

[Emmeline II]

Originally Posted by JBaxter

I have heard your not supposed to get shingles after you have the vaccine but I know of 2 toddlers in the area who have had shingles were vaccinated

Shingles occurs when the virus that causes chickenpox starts up again in your body. After you get better from chickenpox (or receive the vaccine), the virus "sleeps" (is dormant) in your nerve roots.

Shingles used to be a disease of the elderly, but since widespread use of the vaccine the rate of shingles in children has skyrocketed.

[cottrellbentley]

What about Chicken Pox vaccine in teen?

When I first did the vaccine research for chicken pox, I was told by my daughter's pediatrician (a doctor who was part of the original chicken pox vaccine study in Japan) that we shouldn't get the vaccine for her until she hit puberty (and only then if she hadn't contracted it naturally). Well, she's now 13 and I'm completely on the fence... She's never once been exposed as far as I can tell.

What is the fear about getting chicken pox as a female? Can future fertility be lost? Is there a fear for a potential embryo? If she got it, is there a quick and easy "cure"? Why is puberty the "magic" age for it officially being a scary disease (or am I just misinformed)?

I'd really like to see research on this, but I can't seem to find conclusive studies. So, I'd appreciate any feedback or links anyone has about this. It seemed so easy when she was little, but I just don't know what to do now...

[snowqueen]

Originally Posted by PrincessAnika

also fwiw, DH sister is 10 - vaxed - and had the cpox over the winter; was not a more mild case but also was not the worst possible. sad part was first trip to dr, 'oh its not cpox is pityriasis rosea' (sp?) on a fri, sat she had a girl scouts event, tues or wed back to dr 'hey its cpox' - MIL was furious.

wow, what did the dr say in reply? See, there is no excuse to misdiagnose this disease.

[snowqueen]

Originally Posted by cottrellbentley

When I first did the vaccine research for chicken pox, I was told by my daughter's pediatrician (a doctor who was part of the original chicken pox vaccine study in Japan) that we shouldn't get the vaccine for her until she hit puberty (and only then if she hadn't contracted it naturally). Well, she's now 13 and I'm completely on the fence... She's never once been exposed as far as I can tell.

What is the fear about getting chicken pox as a female? Can future fertility be lost? Is there a fear for a potential embryo? If she got it, is there a quick and easy "cure"? Why is puberty the "magic" age for it officially being a scary disease (or am I just misinformed)?

I'd really like to see research on this, but I can't seem to find conclusive studies. So, I'd appreciate any feedback or links anyone has about this. It seemed so easy when she was little, but I just don't know what to do now...

You are at a higher risk for complications as a teen with chickenpox. I also read it can cause problems with fertility, but I don't know if that is true. Maybe someone can comment? I have a son and I am back on forth of whether not to vaccinate and if I do, what age. I don't know if I should wait and see if he will get the disease naturally as a child or just give him the vax by the time he starts school. I do know that if I don't vax him early and he doesn't get the chicken pox naturally by the time he is a pre-teen, then I will have him vax because of the complication rate for teens. I am a bit concerned with the side effects of the vax though.

[jessjgh1]

cottrellbentley
If you have any scheduled opportunities to do a blood test for dd, it might make sense to run a titre to make sure she hasn't already been exposed. We hadn't planned (yet) on exposing our son or dd to chicken pox and my dd brought it home at 1 1/2 yrs, so we didn't have to make that decision. I hadn't quite decided to purposefully expose them when that decision was taken out of my hands. There are a few more vax that we will consider as our children get older (like mumps for my son, rubella...).

We will be running blood test checks when we have blood drawn- for example- the test for rubella because I've heard that children can have a very mild case and the immunity might show up on a blood test. In anycase, dd was scheduled for a blood test when she turned 2. Usually it would be a prick in the finger but I had decided to have her blood taken to have proof. I was feeling guilty about giving her the needle instead of the prick and the nurse mentioned that drawing blood with the needle is actually just as easy and less painful than the jab test-- which makes sense, because I've had the jab test and they are wicked. Luckily no one is woozy about needles and she sat in my lap and did fine. I should have also had her Vit D levels tested- if they were able to get a sample, but I hadn't read much on Vit D that early on.

I also know at least 2 moms who have never had chicken pox. One had a dd that came down with chicken pox. There are drugs that they can give adults (maybe teens) that have chicken pox that may be another avenue/alternative. One is actually to have the vax w/in a certain time of getting them and other is acyclovir and anti-viral. Both are supposed to decrease the effects but i'm not sure about the negatives to doing these...

Sorry for the ramble... just more things to think about.

Jessica

[crittersmom]

Originally Posted by PrincessAnika

also fwiw, DH sister is 10 - vaxed - and had the cpox over the winter; was not a more mild case but also was not the worst possible. sad part was first trip to dr, 'oh its not cpox is pityriasis rosea' (sp?) on a fri, sat she had a girl scouts event, tues or wed back to dr 'hey its cpox' - MIL was furious.

My oldest was the only one who had the vax and his was the worst case ( but not worst possible either) and lasted the longest.On our first trip the Dr told me that they just had eczema and they could go back to school even though I pointed to a spot that had changed since we had been seen.The boys do have eczema but this was definitely very different from any patches they had ever had.I sent pics to my mom who said yep its CP.I kept them home and took them back to a different Dr who said yep its CP.I was upset and have never seen the first Dr again.

[snowqueen]

Originally Posted by crittersmom

My oldest was the only one who had the vax and his was the worst case ( but not worst possible either) and lasted the longest.On our first trip the Dr told me that they just had eczema and they could go back to school even though I pointed to a spot that had changed since we had been seen.The boys do have eczema but this was definitely very different from any patches they had ever had.I sent pics to my mom who said yep its CP.I kept them home and took them back to a different Dr who said yep its CP.I was upset and have never seen the first Dr again.

Did you notify the first doc of the mistake?

[crittersmom]

I did tell them but this was at a military clinic and they just transfered us to a different care provider for our primary care.I don't think anything was done to the Dr.