I always thought I was middle class but apparently I'm not!

[laohaire]

There is an article that defines the middle class by a median range.

http://finance.yahoo.com/banking-bud...d=bb-budgeting

For the 50 percent of families in the middle of the scale, household income ranges from $51,000 to $123,000 for a typical four-person, two-parent family. The median is about $81,000. Those numbers are from 2008, and have probably fallen 5 to 7 percent since then, on account of the recession. Median income for a single-parent, two-child family is about $25,000.

We make less than the range (40k) though we're a 1-kid family, not 2. Still, I thought 40k put us very firmly in middle class range, not just lower middle but middle middle.

The housing bubble was one factor that boosted housing costs, but the typical family also lives in a much bigger home. The median size of a new, single-family home jumped by 40 percent between 1979 and 2007, to about 2,300 square feet. That may now be declining, as families downsize and some get booted from homes they can't afford.

2,300 square feet seems fairly large to me. My parents have lived in such houses before but they were always considered to be pretty nice, not just average. My house is 1,200 square feet.

They provide mobility and represent freedom, one reason the typical family spends about $12,400 per year on two medium-sized sedans or the equivalent, with a new-car value of $45,000. The recession may have dampened our love of the road, however: Americans are driving less and car sales are off about 40 percent.

This really surprised me, I thought a $45k car was downright luxury, not just average. I figured an average car might be $18-20k-ish. We drive a $12k car and sort of feel guilty about it.

The typical family puts aside $4,100 for college expenses for two kids, estimated to cover about 75 percent of expenses at a state university. Financial aid helps with the rest. But if possible, toss more into the college fund: As states face budget crunches, tuition and fees are going up.

Now I find that hard to believe. I am not sure the typical family puts away anything for college much less $4,100 a year. I would have guessed $100 a year would be more typical. We put aside nothing, trying to get out of debt first. It's hard to save for DD's college when we have 13 years left on our own college loan (though of course we're making plans to pay it off in a few years).

One week at the beach or another destination is standard, at a cost of $3,000 or so for four. More affluent families can afford two weeks, at a typical cost of $6,100.

I don't doubt that vacations cost that much, we could never afford it though. We have not been on vacation for 6 years, and when we did go we spent around $300 on average for a vacation. (Typically a weekend at an inn within driving distance, packing lunches and eating out modestly for dinner, free activities).

The typical household head has a high school degree plus about two years of college education, up by more than a full year of college since 1990. Good thing—education is a key factor in lifetime earnings, and high school dropouts face a dim future by nearly every measure.

Even stranger. These people are driving luxury vehicles but don't have a bachelor's? I exceed this measure as I have a 4 year degree.

So, does this seem to you like what you thought was middle class? What they are describing seems to me more on the cusp of upper middle class. I figured I was middle-middle class, but apparently I'm not even lower middle class?

[TiredX2]

Virtually all of those numbers seem off.

I wonder if they meant $45K assuming two cars, that would be the new purchase price? It is definately not the average value of two cars!

The average household income has been around $50K for a number of years.

From Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Househo..._United_States

In 2007, the median annual household income rose 1.3% to $50,233.00 according to the Census Bureau.[4]
...
Households in the mid quintile, with a mean of approximately one income earner per household had incomes between $36,000 and $57,657.

As for the house size--- NEW houses tend to be larger. The average house size is quite a bit smaller than the average new house.

ETA: They did say, "four person, two parent" family, so that group could not just be very "average" at this point. I didn't consider it very accurate/informative from what I see on a day to day basis. But I also can't imagine spending $3K to go the beach for a week

[sunnysandiegan]

What this article is describing seems out of touch with *my* reality, whatever that is worth.

[laohaire]

OK, at least I'm not crazy!!!

Mid quintile income of $36,000 and $57,657 - that's more like I thought. That indeed would place us squarely, smack dab middle middle class for income ($40k).

[TiredX2]

Further according to Wiki... the top 10% of households make a minimum of $118K. Making it pretty hard for the middle 50% to make *more* than that.

I wonder where that article got it's numbers.

[doubledutch]

we need a smilie where the top half of the head explodes into psychedelic swirlies to signify "my mind is blown". that is wacky!

2 parents (for now), 2 kids, in the $40s for income, our house is 1350 sq ft and our one car cost less than $3000. we don't have much debt except my student loan, which is substantial. we live in moderate to low col area. not dirt cheap, but cheap for how lovely it is.

ooh, according to money magazine in 2006, when our city was one of their best places to live, the median family income was $50k. hm. i think that would group us in the middle class for where we live. dh tries to tell me we're "poor" and i want to shake him - he has no clue. i think we have it pretty easy.

[mar123]

Note that it said puts aside 4,100 for college- it doesn't say it puts that much aside each year.

This article totally describes me; except for the size of the house; mine is 1,600 sq. feet. We also have three kids, not two. But the income is dead on (and we are in the middle of that range) Our cars were bought new at 19K and 32K (now paid off and will be driven until they fall apart, LOL) We can go on vacation for less, but that amount is pretty close. Also, my dh and I both have college degrees and hours towards a Master's degree.

I am not surprised that most people don't have full college degrees. There are high paying jobs that don't require them. I have a friend who is a river boat pilot; he makes 400K a year, works every other week, and didn't need a degree; he just needed training in that area. (tough area to get in to; and very dangerous).

I think there are such huge variations on middle class; one of them being where you live.

[Chamomile Girl]

COL would make a big difference in interpreting those numbers though. Where I live an average teaching job starts at 50K, but it would be almost impossible for most to live a middle-class life on that one salary...esp with two kids.

[Chicky2]

I don't know. Our house is 2700 sq ft, my dh makes between 60-70k, depending on the year, and we have 4 kids, 3 of whom are still considered dependents. According to the nearest hospital, though, for our family size we are considered poverty level! Ridiculous. We are doing just fine, lol.

We're not rich by any means, but I would have considered us to be mid-middle class. The ONLY vacation we've ever taken was this past September, and we spent around $2400 for 6 nights/5 days, and TONS of activities. That was for 6 people!!!

Oh, and we own 3 vehicles, all 2000s or older, all paid for. I think the most one cost was $13k. One of them was $1000.

[laohaire]

Originally Posted by mar123

Note that it said puts aside 4,100 for college- it doesn't say it puts that much aside each year.

<head slap> You're right!

Originally Posted by mar123

I think there are such huge variations on middle class; one of them being where you live.

I totally agree, but that article didn't seem to include those variations, really. Earning $50k a year just to qualify as lower-middle class seems skewed to me. If it said middle class earned between, say, $25k-$200k, I wouldn't have even blinked.

[kittywitty]

Those seem really high-but we're in a rural low-col area. We are about to be a 7 person household with income of 42,000, no health insurance (it would cost us 19,200 a year not including deductible, co-pays, etc.), house cost $75k for 1800 sq feet in a great neighborhood, no vacations, no savings, our decade old minivan is worth probably $4k, above average education, and way more debt than they have on there. And yet for this area, we'd be considered middle class. So for around here, that would definitely be WAY upper class.

[laohaire]

Originally Posted by Chamomile Girl

COL would make a big difference in interpreting those numbers though. Where I live an average teaching job starts at 50K, but it would be almost impossible for most to live a middle-class life on that one salary...esp with two kids.

True, COL makes a big difference. But supposedly those are the median numbers, taking in account both high and low COL. But it seems skewed to the high. I don't doubt that 50k is nothing in some places, but I'm quite sure it's a good amount in others. Don't forget, 50k isn't the median number but the LOW number, the "minimum" to be considered middle class by their standards. 50k in my county, while it wouldn't make you rich, would do you just fine and put you over the average in my area.

[choli]

The numbers seem quite low to me, but Boston is extremely high COL. You would be hard set to have the kind of house, cars, etc mentioned in that article on that kind of income around here.

We have that family size, higher income than in the article, smaller living space, no cars at all, but more saved for our kids higher education. We spend more a lot on vacations as both my family and DH's live on other continents, so seeing family is expensive and vacation consuming. Oh, and I have no degree, DH does have a 4 year degree.

[Delicateflower]

Defining class by money and house size is such a working class thing to do.

[laohaire]

Originally Posted by Delicateflower

Defining class by money and house size is such a working class thing to do.

Yeah, as I said in my OP, class and finances are apples and oranges.

ETA: Oops, I guess I didn't say that in THIS post... but another one.

[doubledutch]

Originally Posted by Delicateflower

Defining class by money and house size is such a working class thing to do.

unless you're working class, and then you think it's such a bourgeois thing to do.

[yeahwhat]

Why does it seem that everyone who isn't desperately poor or filthy rich wants to count themselves as middle class?

We are a family of 6. Dh made around $28000 last year. Considering that some is rental (from 1/2 of our duplex) and self employment income, deductions, blah, blah, and combined with gov't benefits, we had an average cashflow of slightly over $4000/month last year. While we are not desperately poor, I wouldn't call us middle class.

[bobandjess99]

that it insane.

[Hannah32]

If we're talking pre-tax and benefits deductions, we meet the numbers in the article. In terms of what we actually live on and where we live (outside of Boston), it isn't easy. We don't have a house and only have one old car.

I do save WAY more than those folks who do it seems. Living on one income will do that to you.

We still consider ourselves middle class, because we culturally were raised that way and we both have master's degrees. But I sort of feel we have more of a working class income, if you know what I mean.

[rhiOrion]

Those numbers just seem wacky to me, in general.

We gross about 70k. We have no kids (except the one headbutting my bladder, but she hasn't cost too much so far!). We just bought a 1500 sq ft house. We have no car payments. Student loans of about 260 per month.

So- I don't understand how we'd make just 10k more per year and suddenly be able to afford a much larger house, car payments (even if they were saying 45k together for both cars, that's still two car payments on 22k cars), 3k vacations, the added expense of two kids and daycare, and all the other stuff.

It just doesn't add up. I mean, we do great right now, but we'd never be able to afford all of that stuff, especially not with two kids.

Maybe the issue at hand is that just because people making 80k a year are buying all of that stuff does NOT mean they're living debt free.