Advice

[hakeber]

So my ds has a new friend and she took a toy (it was a new toy, a toy he got from his grandma for his birthday, and one that he really cherished) and told ds not to tell anyone and told him "friends do whatever their friends ask them to do".

A) how do we get the toy back without out and out accusing a five year old of being a manipulative bully?

B) how do I teach DS not to let people push him around and take his stuff?

Do I let him handle it? Do I tell her parents? Do I tell her directly the next time she asks if she can come over (which will be in about 3 hours...) to bring back the toy or she can't come over anymore?

This is such a big trigger for me. I feel really taught and wound up and the little bullied pushover kid in me wants to just go over there and push her down and make her give it back (of course I wooldn't do that, it's just a feeling). I feel so powerless.

He is trying to act like it's no big deal, but I can tell he is torn between disappointing his new friend and wanting his favorite new present that he waited so long for.

[Daffodil]

As far as getting the toy back, if you expect the girl will be asking to come over today, I would just calmly tell her, "DS didn't really want you to have that toy you took, so I'd like you to bring it back when you come over." I can't imagine her refusing, so I wouldn't threaten her with not being able to come over anymore if she doesn't return it. There's also probably no need to lecture her about the wrongness of what she did. She wouldn't have told your DS not to tell if she hadn't already realized it was wrong.

I also have a kid who tends to be a pushover, and I'm not sure what the best way is to teach a kid not be one. I'm sure you've already told him that friends don't do whatever their friends ask them to do.

[hakeber]

Originally Posted by Daffodil

As far as getting the toy back, if you expect the girl will be asking to come over today, I would just calmly tell her, "DS didn't really want you to have that toy you took, so I'd like you to bring it back when you come over." I can't imagine her refusing, so I wouldn't threaten her with not being able to come over anymore if she doesn't return it. There's also probably no need to lecture her about the wrongness of what she did. She wouldn't have told your DS not to tell if she hadn't already realized it was wrong.

I also have a kid who tends to be a pushover, and I'm not sure what the best way is to teach a kid not be one. I'm sure you've already told him that friends don't do whatever their friends ask them to do.

Yes! I was gobsmacked when I heard him say that. This is definitely going to be the hardest part of raising kids for me.

So you would vote, not to involve the parents? I would never lecture another parent's kid on morality (Unless they were in my class ), but I was thinking of just saying; Hey, I think one of DS's toys found its way over here, can you ask you dd to look for it please?

[Daffodil]

I don't see any reason to involve the parents unless the girl does refuse to bring the toy back, or says she will and then doesn't actually do it, or continues to do this kind of thing in the future. And if it does reach that point, it seems like you might want to be a little more honest with the parents about what you think actually happened. Wouldn't you want to know if your kid was taking toys from other kids?

[beanma]

I'd just ask for it back. "DS would like his toy back now." I might go by their house if he was really upset about it and say the same thing. Depending on how I felt that day I might say something about how friends act, but if I wasn't up for it that day I might not. I would view that as a signal to keep a closer eye on their interactions, though, and would talk with my kid about it.

[phathui5]

Hey, I think one of DS's toys found its way over here, can you ask you dd to look for it please?

This sounds like a good way to handle it.

[CarrieMF]

I WOULD involve the parents. They need to know so they can correct their child's behaviour.

Hey, I think one of DS's toys found its way over here, can you ask you dd to look for it please?

This is a good way to word it.

[ramama]

I don't know, saying that you think a toy is over there leaves the door wide open for the other child to deny it. I would say, DS let your DD borrow a toy and he would like it back today, or something that clearly states that you know his toy is over there.

[hakeber]

Well, his new friend is denying she has it, and the mother is like "ha ha kids will be kids!" I told her what she said and she just smirked, as if to say; "isn't my daughter a little cutie pie VIXEN!?" I don't even know what to say to that. I just left saying "We really need that train back. It wasn't really his to give away, so if you find it, please give it back."

I am

I want him to have new friends but not if they are going to extort toys from him for the pleasure of their company. And I am not sure I want him being friends with someone whose parents think it's CUTE to bully their friends like that!

I have put the rest of his trains in protective custody in the meantime. He can have them when he wants to play up to two at a time, and he has to give them back when he is done playing. And we are not going to allow friends in the house any more, at least not until we know them and their parents a whole heck of a lot better.

I am really mad, but mostly I am sad, and I KNOW some of this is just my neurosis...I wish I could be more chilled out about this, but we don't have a lot of money, these are REALLY nice trains, that my mom spent a lot of money on not just buying but then shipping to us, and he LOVES them and spent all year asking for them. He usually takes such good care of them. I am really sad that he felt the need to let her take them and didn't tell me sooner.

[starlein26]

How did you find out the train was missing? Did your son tell you about it, or did you notice? I'm just curious...

[hakeber]

I asked him to get James (Thomas and friends James) from the Train box so I could use him for a model to make his birthday cake for his party and he brought me every train BUT James. He has been asking for a James Birthday Cake at least once a week for the last YEAR, because he's #5 and Ben just turned 5. I said, but where's James, and he was all ohhh, I don't know. I...I lost him, I guess. I didn't take him out of the house. *I* never did! He must be lost. never mind mommy, forget it.

Now he has never been nonchalant about losing a train. He has always asked me to help him search until it was found. He is usually very very upset, so I was really confused.

So after tearing up every room in the house, the car, the back yard and the park while he is saying "I don't really mind mommy. I don't even want a James cake. Make me a different cake instead." I asked him where he thinks he last saw it, and he got all shifty and weird and I asked his friends and the girl in questions looks dead at him and says "Benjamin never takes his trains to MY house, do you Benjamin?" Which I thought was a very strange response.

Then this morning he climbs into my bed and he says she told him not to tell but that she wanted to take it and "friends always do what their friends ask them to do."


Now, he may be lying. I don't know. He pretended at her house like he never said anything to me and he had no idea what I was talking about, and he's now making up all sort of other stories, which I feel really sad about because what have I done that he won't even tell me what really happened... Why is he keeping secrets from me all of a sudden?

I don't know what to do about it. I think I just have to forget it? Try to ignore it?

I KNOW it is only stuff. I do, but we don't have a lot of nice things. We spend a large portion of our salary to live in this safe area where our kid can play and I don't have to worry about being robbed because we were broken into twice in the last year in our last house, once while we were sleeping upstairs and they CLEANED us out! I know he doesn't get that, but it doesn't make it any easier for me to feel okay about him telling lies, being cagey and keeping secrets from me.

[ollyoxenfree]

I understand why you are so concerned about the secrets. I'd explain to him that if he is upset, he must trust you to help him sort things out, because that's part of your job as his mom.

As for "friends always do what their friends ask them to do" - well, there are a few different aspects to this. I'd talk about loyalty between friends, but also trust and respect. Friends don't abuse a friend's trust, and they respect their friends. It doesn't sound like SHE has been a good friend - so she can't really say what friends do, right? He doesn't need to be loyal to a friend who doesn't respect him and who hasn't earned his trust.

I'd also explain that "friends DON'T always do what their friends ask them to do". To be a good friend, he has to be a strong person. That means he has to decide FOR HIMSELF what's right and what isn't. If he thinks something is wrong (giving away his favourite toy), but he isn't sure, then he has mom to ask and to help him figure it out.

If he willingly gave his toy away, then he's a very generous little boy. But he doesn't have to buy his friends, and any friend that can be bought isn't really worth having. The bought friend isn't really a true friend - and again, doesn't deserve loyalty and secret-keeping. I guess I would just keep trying to reinforce that message. In the meantime, if the girl keeps abusing his friendship, then is it such a loss if they don't spend much time together anymore?

In this case, i don't think it is "only stuff". The train represents an abuse of friendship. Even without the loss of the train, if she had been coaching him into keeping secrets and making poor decisions, you would have every right to be upset.

[ollyoxenfree]

I forgot to add a couple of ideas for discussing this with your ds. Perhaps explore with him what might have happened if he had said "No" to this girl when she asked to have the train. Would she be angry, unhappy, disappointed? Possibly any of these - or all of them. How could he handle each response? A true friend doesn't get angry about possessions - so he could tell her not to be mad. If she stayed angry, well, then he knows she likes his toys more than him, and she's not really going to be a good friend. If she was just unhappy and disappointed, he could agree to let her play with it when she visits. He could suggest that she ask her parents for a similar toy. Maybe, if her birthday is coming up and there's a party planned, your ds could get her something similar for her birthday.

Exploring the possible outcomes and role-playing through them will help him see that there are better ways to be good friends.

It sounds like your ds is a people-pleaser, which is nice because he wants to get along with everyone. People-pleasers need to learn early though that it's okay to disappoint people or disagree with them. Otherwise they will never really be happy, because they will spend their lives trying to satisfy others, not themselves.

[hakeber]

Those are really great ideas, Ollyoxenfree. I have already started with some of this...really helpful, thanks!

Also, we were cleaning up after DS's B-day party tonight and lo and behold we found the train in question back in the special box...How strange. I am guessing it made its way back the way it made its way out. It's just nice to see it home, and DS is so so happy, he's sleeping with it under his pillow.

I may never understand the mind of other little kids no matter how old or young I am.

[LynnS6]

Yeah! I'm glad it found its way back. I was about to offer to send you our James that my kids don't play with anymore!

[ollyoxenfree]

So glad to hear that he's happy and things have worked out!

[One_Girl]

Originally Posted by hakeber

Those are really great ideas, Ollyoxenfree. I have already started with some of this...really helpful, thanks!

Also, we were cleaning up after DS's B-day party tonight and lo and behold we found the train in question back in the special box...How strange. I am guessing it made its way back the way it made its way out. It's just nice to see it home, and DS is so so happy, he's sleeping with it under his pillow.

I may never understand the mind of other little kids no matter how old or young I am.

Are you sure he didn't lose it and make up an elaborate story to cover? My dd has done this and the stories sound very realistic. It came as a shock the first time I found out one of her stories wasn't true because she made it sound very realistic. That level of manipulation seems extreme for a child of that age, but kids this age are surprising in what they are and aren't capable of. Either way it is good that the train is back.

[hakeber]

Originally Posted by One_Girl

Are you sure he didn't lose it and make up an elaborate story to cover? My dd has done this and the stories sound very realistic. It came as a shock the first time I found out one of her stories wasn't true because she made it sound very realistic. That level of manipulation seems extreme for a child of that age, but kids this age are surprising in what they are and aren't capable of. Either way it is good that the train is back.

No, I'm not sure. And I am really confused as to how to process that, but it is entirely possible that he lied about her taking it and everything else, and then found it and put it back himself. A bit of a coincidence that it showed up again after she was allowed access to his room at the party, but not at all impossible that she really never did have it and he was making the whole thing up. But why? Why would blame his new friend if he likes her so much? Why would he say that she said not to tell me and all that? I don't get it.

[hakeber]

Originally Posted by LynnS6

Yeah! I'm glad it found its way back. I was about to offer to send you our James that my kids don't play with anymore!

awww, that is SO sweet! Thanks.

[madskye]

Originally Posted by hakeber

No, I'm not sure. And I am really confused as to how to process that, but it is entirely possible that he lied about her taking it and everything else, and then found it and put it back himself. A bit of a coincidence that it showed up again after she was allowed access to his room at the party, but not at all impossible that she really never did have it and he was making the whole thing up. But why? Why would blame his new friend if he likes her so much? Why would he say that she said not to tell me and all that? I don't get it.

My 4 year old told me last week that one of the kids in her pre-k class kicked everyone there in the face, during naptime, and had to go to timeout. I was pretty sure that this did not actually happen, and followed up with the teacher who was also stymied and couldn't even think of a root story for this to have come out of. I think 3-5 kids are learning about storytelling--moreso than lying or manipulating--and the line between reality and suggestion is very thin.