How necessary is cleaning with early retraction?

[KGB]

My wife has been doing research on retraction and read that some boys will be fully retractable at 1 or 2 years old. I'm not sure how common that is or if it's due to forced retraction as infants.

If it is in fact true that boys can naturally be fully retractable at such a young age, she believes it's important to methodically clean that area for him since he may not be old enough to do it himself yet, based on articles that she's read.

I've told her the best thing to do is probably just leave it alone since it's self-cleaning, but everything she seems to have read talks about how important it is to clean underneath as soon as they're retractable to prevent infection.

Does anyone have any links to articles that would help?

[BaMo]

It would be pretty rare to be retractable at that early of an age. I'm not saying that it can't happen, but again it would be rare. The vast majority of boys won't be able to retract until they hit puberty.

The important thing is not to let anyone retract - especially any doctors/nurses that your son may come into contact with.

Go here - there is a link to a guide for parents of intact boys.

Just clean what you see and leave the rest alone.

[mntnmom]

My 3 year old has been fully retractable for 6-9 months. I sometimes remind him to retract in the tub, but that's more about developing the habit than concerns about cleanliness. We haven't had any problems. I imagine regular bathing in water would be more than enough for a younger boy.
I really doubt early man devoted much time to cleaning under his foreskin, and I've never seen another mammal with a q-tip or bar of soap. Yet somehow we've managed to populate every environment on Earth. I say you're probably right that it's not something to worry about.

[Storm Bride]

I don't know from an academic/statistical standpoint, but ds2 has been retractable since he was 3. (He came in the living room and showed us all his "new trick".) I've mentioned the idea of getting in the habit of "retract, swish, replace" a few times, but he doesn't really do it yet. He's never had any problems at all.

In 21.5 (17 + 4.5) parenting years of having intact sons, the only issue that's ever come up was when one of them got his foreskin caught while twisting a Rubiks Cube. He wasn't yet retractable, and it hurt a lot, but it was safely extricated, with no bruising, partial separation or other trauma. That's it - nothing else.

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

The rule is no one retracts except the owner of the penis. This includes retractable ones. It isnt needed a simple swish in the bath will get water up in there and clean it out well enough.

Like others have said having HIM do it in the bath is a good way to get the habit going but in no way is it needed until puberty hits it is just good for them to learn. With ds I dont have to remind him, when he gets in the bath he automatically starts messing with it.

Odds are if he is the only one doing it he wont hurt himself but if you or someone else does it then it is very possible you could hurt him before he has a chance to say ow. Also retracting can lead to paraphimosis where the foreskin gets stuck behind the glans so it is just best all around to leave him alone and let him do all the messing with it.

Also since no one should be retracting him you shouldnt know he is retractable that young unless he shows you. Once he figures it out that is the time to start telling him to retract in a way he can understand. For ds he calls it making the ball come out of his peanut No matter how many times I correct him by saying Penis to him it is his Peanut. He is about three quarters retractable and has been since he was around 3 from what I have seen.

[jenP]

First of all, how would you even know if it was retractable unless you were trying it to see, which you shouldn't anyway? Well, I guess if you saw the kid pull back his foreskin himself you would know. But my thought is that those statistics come from forcibly retracted babies. Like the doctor "tried it out" at every visit and if the doctor can get it back, then hey, look, he's retractable!
But anyway...
Even if you son should be one of those rare ones with a naturally retractile foreskin at such an early age, just leave it alone. There is NEVER a reason to clean under the foreskin. Not at any age. The only reason an adult/adolescent would do so is to avoid body odor, so as to be more attractive or to "fit in" in our society. There is NO health reason to clean inside the foreskin, just like there is no reason to clean inside the vagina.
The "Peaceful Parenting" blog explains all this. Sometimes the exact information about the lack of need for internal cleaning may be far down in the articles. There are many articles there that touch on the subject. You could start with http://www.drmomma.org/2009/09/only-...reversing.html (I especially like the section "Forcible Retraction and Circumcision" about halfway down, where she mentions the false either/or choice given American parents: constant retraction and cleaning, or circumcision. It is a false either/or because neither is needed: just leave the genitals alone.) It seems all the information your wife has been finding has been of this variety (the false either/or), which sadly is all too common EVEN among those who are against circumcision. They still cling to the myth that a normal penis will require lifelong vigorous scrubbing out.
All the best to you!

Jen

[JB1972]

Originally Posted by jenP

But anyway...
Even if you son should be one of those rare ones with a naturally retractile foreskin at such an early age, just leave it alone. There is NEVER a reason to clean under the foreskin. Not at any age. The only reason an adult/adolescent would do so is to avoid body odor, so as to be more attractive or to "fit in" in our society. There is NO health reason to clean inside the foreskin, just like there is no reason to clean inside the vagina.
The "Peaceful Parenting" blog explains all this. Sometimes the exact information about the lack of need for internal cleaning may be far down in the articles. There are many articles there that touch on the subject. You could start with http://www.drmomma.org/2009/09/only-...reversing.html (I especially like the section "Forcible Retraction and Circumcision" about halfway down, where she mentions the false either/or choice given American parents: constant retraction and cleaning, or circumcision. It is a false either/or because neither is needed: just leave the genitals alone.) It seems all the information your wife has been finding has been of this variety (the false either/or), which sadly is all too common EVEN among those who are against circumcision. They still cling to the myth that a normal penis will require lifelong vigorous scrubbing out.
All the best to you!

Jen

I would respectfully disagree, partially, with your above statement about not ever needing to clean under the foreskin for adults. I think that the comparison to washing inside the vagina might be a fair analogy in reference to infants/toddlers etc, but not so much for adolescent/adult penis's (where a little soap and water is no prob). While I'm not sure how "medically critical" it might be, since I've never pushed it quite that far; I can say as an intact man that I do spend a little extra time cleaning under the foreskin each and every time I wash. Heck, as a teenager I often had to "repeat" the process a few times just to be sure I was "really clean"... but that was hardly any sort of an imposition. I personally find it quite important for basic cleanliness, although I do agree that there is nothing unusual or difficult about cleanliness for intact men. I'm also pretty sure that I would feel the same way, and spend about the same amount of time cleaning myself, even if I had been circ'd. Just to be clear the only difference I take is when speaking about adults/adolescents, which is a bit off course from the OP's question.
regards,
JB

[jenP]

I'm sorry, JB, I think I was not as clear as I meant to be. I did not mean that you or anyone else should not clean inside the foreskin, or that it would be harmful in an adult. I only meant that it is not MEDICALLY necessary. In other words, infections and medical problems are not caused by a lack of cleaning under the foreskin. I only mention it because everyone seems to have a story of someone who "had to" be circumcised because of "infections" because he "didn't wash under his foreskin enough." I think those people got bad medical advice. Certainly you can clean yourself as much as you want to feel comfortable! I'm only saying you don't have to for any medical reason.

You are right, the preputial space/vagina analogy is more applicable to the non-retractile foreskin. I would say for an adult it is more like the vulva. But that said, I really don't think a woman needs to wash her vulva to keep infection at bay either (unless of course the area has become contaminated with feces but that is another matter.) In fact I have gone for weeks at a time without washing my crotch at all (sorry, TMI, but it is relevant to the discussion I think) and never had any problem. Yes, I am a dirty, dirty hippy, usually with smelly armpits and greasy hair, and you know what? I'm so darn healthy it would make you sick! The one thing I DO find it important to wash is my HANDS. Always wash after going to the bathroom, being out in public, and of course before eating. 'Cause when you get bacteria and viruses on your hands, it gets into your nose and mouth and then you get sick. But sweat, smegma, oil, and other natural bodily secretions do not make you sick just by sticking around on your body where they originated.

I once had a horse, a male. I had him for years and I NEVER washed his penis at all. And he never, ever had a problem with it.

Jen

[JB1972]

Originally Posted by jenP

I once had a horse, a male. I had him for years and I NEVER washed his penis at all. And he never, ever had a problem with it.

Jen

Thanks for the image... you just made me laugh . I did kind of think we were largely in agreement, and you confirmed it. I think the reason I posted my response is that I have certainly heard a lot of comments about the "cleanliness" factor. I spend plenty of time getting dirty (and I mean that in the literal sense), and am certainly not the obsessive type that uses sanitary wipes each and every hour... but I do like to keep certain things squeaky clean. I kind of resent the arguments that intact penis's (in adults) are somehow dirtier then cut ones; especially after I've spent so much time taking such loving care of mine
But if I had a horse... I think he'd be on his own in that respect,
JB

[jenP]

Originally Posted by JB1972

I did kind of think we were largely in agreement, and you confirmed it.
JB

Good! I wouldn't want to argue, especially since we are both against RIC!

Jen

[tutucrazy]

Even a retractable boys don't need to "clean" underneath. Rinsing under the foreskin is only necessary after a boy becomes sexually active.

[brant31]

A penis with a retractable foreskin is going to get cleaned to a significant amount just by sitting in the bath, just as it does when a boy goes swimming. Just remember to immerse or rinse with clean, warm water at the end of the event. By the time the boy is old enough to explore actually rinsing way back at the coronal sulcus (and probably the majority of early retracters still have some natural adhesions there), a boy is old enough to rinse around his own penis.

The rule of thumb I give parents still applies. All the time I get asked -- with great concern -- "At what age should I be able to see my son's glans?" My usual answer is "If you're doing it right, Never. You can ask to see it when he's 30, but don't be surprised if he says No." When he's young enough for you to change or bathe him, his foreskin's either non-retractile or there's no issue. After that, it's his business. Just explain to him that clean, warm water is sufficient when he rinses that area.

Before I get angry email, I know that there are extenuating circumstances where a parent may need to apply special attention and care. But in 99% of boys, the advice of "Never!" actually prevents more problems than it would cause.

[GoBecGo]

Originally Posted by jenP

I once had a horse, a male. I had him for years and I NEVER washed his penis at all. And he never, ever had a problem with it.

Jen

YAK you are very lucky! I cared for a stallion when i was a teen and DID have to wash his penis, and it was not fun for anyone. I used to say to him "i'm gonna do it now, and then we're gonna share a PB sandwich and after that we'll NEVER speak of it again, ok?" It is mega gross but unfortunately if you have a commercially breeding stallion you cannot let the normal natural method of penis cleaning (sex - mares uterus's are actually DESIGNED to cope fine with foreign matter from the stallion!) rule. For the horses you can, but for the owners and vets, not so much.

With penis's, seriously, i'm in the UK, i have NEVER met anyone who had to be circ'd due to infection. EVER, and all these guys are intact and living their lives! It's crazy to me how much thought goes into circ/don't circ and if not circ how to Care For It. It is like worrying if it's a girl, how will i keep the back of her hymen clean? All the foreskin incidents i know of were zipper/drawer/belt (once!) related, not infection related. And the only guy i know who developed phimosis so severe he had an adult circ (and isn't loving it BTW!) never had an infection of any sort either, just a lot of tightness/pain/stuck-behind-the-glans trouble from the phimosis which was caused by an autoimmune skin disease.

[claddaghmom]

Wouldn't the area under the foreskin be cleaned with every pee? Whether the infant is retractable or not?

How in the world do you find out a baby <1 is retractable? That sounds suspicious to me.

[pranava]

Unfortunately, my baby under 1 is retractable because the Dr. retracted his forcibly the day he was born because he suspected hypospadius. That's how I know he is retractable. I do retract and rinse in the bath about once a week. I do this because occasionally the glands is visible and occasionally a really messy poop doesn't stay to the back of the diaper - you get the picture. I think in this situation a rinse is in order. This of course would not be an issue for a non diaper wearing child. I have seen the urethra opening a little red and irritated once or twice, but other than that he has had no problems.

[rabbitmum]

I'm from Norway. "Everybody" is intact here, but I have never heard of anybody retracting their sons to "rinse" or telling their young sons to "retract and rinse" under their foreskins. Nobody actually focuses on foreskins at all, it is just assumed that little boys get clean enough by sitting in the bath. I have never heard of anybody who has had any problems with their foreskins. That includes my own two sons.

So I would say not necessary at all.