Advice needed. Dealing with pro-vax doc w/o leaving the practice

[harli]

Well I want to start off by saying that we have a FANTASTIC ped. He really is, he's caught problems in my one child that no one else caught. He's very supportive, has given us numerous GREAT advice. On top of that he's a long time close friend of a family member and treats US like family.....but.....he's 100% pro vaccine and we aren't.

My Mom died young of a debilitating disease that can be triggered by heavy metals. It's also suggested there is a genetic predisposition to the environmental factors that cause her disease. I'm allergic to heavy metals and have kidney problems. So we are especially concerned about Aluminum in vax's. We've discussed not giving the kids the flu vax and chicken pox before this due to my Mom's illness and he was okay with that. But since then I've researched the vax's better and I'm just not comfortable with injecting poisons into my kids bloodstream.

At our last visit when we said no to Prevnar he got VERY defensive and told us "he hopes dd doesn't get meningitis because of this". Then gave us some pro-vaccine propaganda from the vaccine education center (which backfired on him because my hubby who was on the fence before was actually convinced against vax's by reading such blatantly obvious bull plucky from the pamphlet he gave us.

I knew he was mad when we left but a day or two later he ran into our family member and they got to discussing what had upset him. He told her he was upset because we questioned him and didn't trust that he had our kids best interest at hear. (oh please! We do trust him but we obviously have different concerns) And that it's basically silly to worry about Al since a can of tuna has more Al in it then a vax does. (but that can of tuna isn't exactly safe either since the Alzheimers people suggest you steer clear of it and it's not getting injected into someones bloodstream either).

Sorry for being so long winded. But I need some advice as to how to deal with this. I don't want to offend him anymore but we don't plan on giving in on this either.

What is a polite but firm way of stating our concerns, that we value his opinion but that we aren't inching on this. Hubby and I are very laid back and are generally not good with confrontation so I would appreciate some advice. If it was any other doc we would just leave the practice but we don't want to do that in this case. He really is a great doc. other then not seeing eye to eye with us on this.

[xmasbaby7]

I think this can have a happy ending. I would prepare something in your head and bring it up again to clear the air, depending on how often you go to your ped.

"I know we disagreed about Prevnar during our last visit, but I DO know that you have our kids' best interest at heart, very much. We are so grateful for the care you have given our family. We wish, as parents, there were absolutes here with vaccinating with no side effects or not vaccinating and not encountering some vaccine preventable illnesses. That isn't possible, though, and we have to rely on subjective interpretations of risk/benefit analyses for each child. I hope that you can respect our decisions here as parents as much as we respect the incredible care you have given to us thus far.

Something along those lines...sounds like he needs his ego stroked a little in order ot play ball with you. I would keep the conversation general, because the more you get involved with details like Aluminum content, the more he sees it as an opportunity to refute each concern.

Good luck!

[anj_rn]

So I am a selective/delayed vax kinda mom, but I also am a nurse and surrounded by pro-vax docs. Here is how I handle things.

1. I look at each vax separately. Risk of catching illness/prevalance in our area/side effects of illness/side effects of vax/effectiveness of vax, etc.

2. I write out the pros & cons of receiving the vax.

3. I discuss each vax with the docs and we go over my pros & cons sheet so they can add things in.


A lot of time, when they see that I have really thought this through, and that I am only looking at the specific needs of my child (not advocating no one anywhere should ever get a vax). They are OK. If they bring something up I had not considered, I ask for time to research.

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

If you plan on doing no vax you can just tell him it goes against your religious beliefs that way he cannot ask you about them and give you a hard time. That is what I did. If you plan on selective vaxing that wont work though.

[Arduinna]

I knew he was mad when we left but a day or two later he ran into our family member and they got to discussing what had upset him.

Well first off he is violating HIPAA by discussing this. I don't care if you are friends, what happens in his office is covered by HIPAA and he has no business discussing it with friends on the street.

What Information Is Protected

* Information your doctors, nurses, and other health care providers put in your medical record
* Conversations your doctor has about your care or treatment with nurses and others
* Information about you in your health insurer’s computer system
* Billing information about you at your clinic
* Most other health information about you held by those who must follow these laws

http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/privacy/hipaa...ers/index.html


I'd start there.

[PlayaMama]

Originally Posted by anj_rn

So I am a selective/delayed vax kinda mom, but I also am a nurse and surrounded by pro-vax docs. Here is how I handle things.

1. I look at each vax separately. Risk of catching illness/prevalance in our area/side effects of illness/side effects of vax/effectiveness of vax, etc.

2. I write out the pros & cons of receiving the vax.

3. I discuss each vax with the docs and we go over my pros & cons sheet so they can add things in.


A lot of time, when they see that I have really thought this through, and that I am only looking at the specific needs of my child (not advocating no one anywhere should ever get a vax). They are OK. If they bring something up I had not considered, I ask for time to research.

i think this would be the best course of action.

also, it might be helpful to note that vaccines are _not_ injected intravenous (IV- into the vein and thus bloodstream) but rather are and intramuscular injection (IM- into the muscle) and so saying "injecting chemicals into their bloodstream," is erroneous and could possible cause someone that knows the difference to disregard your message.

the more you educate yourself before you talk to your doctor the more clearly you can communicate and the better your discussion.

[WaitingForKiddos]

I'd be more upset that he was throwing a temper tantrum and gossiping about me/my family to someone than the vax issue. To me, no matter how close he was to my family, that would be a deal breaker. Total deal breaker and he'd be lucky I didn't formally complain about to the Higher Ups.

[harli]

I am aware that was a hippa violation. One in which I'm not happy about because it caused a HUGE fight between the family member and my hubby (whom is the blood relative of this person). Needless to say we got a phone call from this person SCREAMING at dh for how dare he question the doc. and how dare we put dd and ds at risk for diseases and yada yada. BUT I'm not willing to throw out our relationship with this wonderful man over something like this whole vax issue. I really think it's just a disagreement due to different viewpoints and that we are focusing on different concerns. I just wish he would show us the same amount of respect.

I like many of the suggestions. Unfortunately I don't think he's going to be that keen on us showing that we have done our research. I was bringing up research before and he didn't take us seriously at all. When I mentioned my Mom's disease and our concerns his only argument was well your breast milk has Al in it. Which to me is in completely uncomparable levels to what is injected into kids but I guess he doesn't see it that way. Which is okay but at least address our concerns and treat us like we are at least fairly intelligent.

xmasbaby I love that suggestion.

Originally Posted by PlayaMama

i think this would be the best course of action.

also, it might be helpful to note that vaccines are _not_ injected intravenous (IV- into the vein and thus bloodstream) but rather are and intramuscular injection (IM- into the muscle) and so saying "injecting chemicals into their bloodstream," is erroneous and could possible cause someone that knows the difference to disregard your message.

the more you educate yourself before you talk to your doctor the more clearly you can communicate and the better your discussion.

Good point. I do know the difference btw but for ease of conversation I got into the bad habit of explaining it that way. I'll make sure to use correct terminology when talking with the doc.


thanks Mama's

[Arduinna]

Well it's up to you of course, but for me the fact that he doesn't respect your right to privacy which is the law and part of his professional code of conduct would be the deal breaker. He should be reported for violating HIPPA. He is behaving unprofessionally and unethically.

[serenbat]

I would send him a letter stating how betrayed you feel and leave it open as to if you will see him again. Let him respond and than relay your happiness that he will treat your family but make it firm that you will take his advise but will make the final discussions regarding vaccines.

I think a letter may make him think twice about talking and puts the ball in his court to see how he reacts.

[Emmeline II]

He is gossiping about you to family members and dismisses your opinions and concerns as disrespecting him; I know that you put up with more from "family" because they are family, but you should at least consider that this relationship is not salvageable.

I would start with what you wrote in the first paragraph; that you come to this practice because you value how he help you through X,Y, and Z.

But ultimately, you and your dh are responsible for the health of your family, and though you know that he advises what he believes is in your family's best interest, the final decision must always be yours as YOU will have to deal with the consequences of these medical decisions. No one has your best interest at heart more than YOU.

I really don't know if it is possible to convey this without offending him, particularly if he is around your parents age. I know it was difficult for our parents when we asked for advice but did something different.

[japonica]

I would not continue with his as a care provider. I know he's been very good to you, but the HIPAA violation is a big red flag. That is something I would not tolerate, no matter who the physician is and how they have acted in the past.

And to tell the family member that he thinks your concerns are silly. Well, how is that respecting YOU?

I think that a doctor-patient relationship needs an element of respect for it to function properly. The decent GPs I've had in the past...there are times when I refused to take antibiotics they suggested etc. and they respected my right to do so, even if they disagreed with it. The GP that my kids see...he signed our vaccination exemption form, so he knows we don't vaccinate. He disagrees with our stance, but he respects our choice to do so and he doesn't give us grief about it.

I don't see how this relationship can improve. He feels disrespected by you (and it's for your valid concerns!) and you are not respected by him if he is gossiping about you to others. What will happen down the road if you continue? If you bring in the kids for a fever or a rash, is it going to support you with looking into the cause or is he going to jump all over you and accuse you of causing it by not vaccinating and then telling others?

Sorry, I know you like him, and it's tough finding decent peds/GPs, but I think you need to think hard about keeping him long term...