If not sals, what?? Intolerant to orange veggies? Maybe ss is gone?

[DevaMajka]

Is this even possible?

Could it be that taking prenatal vitamins, magnesium, B's, giving him epsom salt baths, and taking probiotics could help that fast? (In just a few weeks?)
I started taking the probiotics (and giving him some infant probiotics) about a week ago- right after got a rash from eating a couple teaspoons of carrot. I also cut out all sals products on him, and most for me.
I also started him on black beans yesterday, and he loves them. He had to of eaten half a cup all combined. So that would be lots of molybdenum, right?

Or is he sensitive to some other food chemical?
Or could spartan apples actually be low sals?

I'm so confused now as to what he is sensitive to. I was *sure* he was sensitive to sals. Looking back on my food diary, his rash got worse every time I ate sweet potato. It was also triggered when HE ate sweet potato (his rash was awful that time), and to a lesser extent when he ate carrots. There were a couple times that his rash got worse without sweet potato, and those times I ate a meal with pineapple and spaghetti squash.

I thought at the beginning that apples were a trigger. Well, because I'm a skeptic, and because his rash doesn't seem to bother him much, and because my mom is visiting, I thought I'd test sals again. My mom was sort of thinking the link might just be orange veggies. So I figured I'd test apples, because I knew ds loved them, so figured he'd enjoy it.

He ate close to half an apple (spartan) yesterday. No rash today. Clear as a bell. (well, he has another rash in a different place that was already there yesterday). So wtf???
When he ate the sweet potato and carrot a while back, he ate a couple teaspoons and that resulted in an undeniable rash the next day.
*I* can eat small amounts of carrots with no effect on him. I also ate a papaya a couple weeks ago, and his rash was just a tiny bit worse the next day, not even necessarily worse than what I've blamed on friction and wetness.

So, uh, what now? Do I test an orange veggie? Test non-orange sals?

Please tell me that it's not possible that it's just all a big coincidence, and his rash isn't food related. Looking at my food diary, it sure seems like it's super related to what I eat.

[mamafish9]

We don't get a reaction the first time we eat apples either - remember, sals is a build up reaction. If you've been stuffing him full of beans, and taking mag/b6, and eating low sals, he would have had a pretty empty bucket.

Also, all sals are not equal, and some cause problems for different people. We got back oils, and squash/pumpkin pretty quickly. Carrots are still a big issue, as are most fruits (again, he does OK for a couple of days, then we see a reaction).

Sals won't give you the same reaction every time - but I think you have plenty of evidence they're an issue. Perhaps not the only issue, but one of the keys!

[DevaMajka]

Ok, so that helps with the confusion. I've only been eating low sals, and him none. I did just realize that he hasn't eaten much banana since yesterday- he prefers the beans Maybe with having such low sals for a while, and low phenols for a couple days, and all the supps, he could handle the sals better.

I guess I'm just used to any amount of sals (eaten by him) triggering a reaction in him.

Hopefully this means that I can add a couple moderate foods occasionally.

I have wondered before if amines were a really minor contributing factor. Maybe they are contributing more than I thought?

[mamafish9]

Bananas don't affect his sals bucket here, but I can see how they could. Sals are so tricky - I remember when DS suddenly could tolerate coconut oil fine (very high sals list), but still reacted to zucchini and potatoes. I suspect the coconut oil didn't require any digestive efforts, so his body could get to the sals to break them down better. I remember thinking - huh, maybe he's reactive to something else, not sals... Nah. Went back to my food journal, and he was clearly reacting to sals - but we gained back sals foods in a different order than you would think from the lists. I know that's true for lots of people. I could do tomatoes (even sauce or ketchup) fairly early on as well, and DS can eat moderate berries now, but still not apples. Go figure.

[Koalamom]

I know that when we found the right nutrients my kids could handle a ton of sals. And it happens fast, within days. I do feel that a sensitive kids may need more molybdenum than what we get in beans, but if you are seeing results, than you may not need any extra.

I would give my kid a nice epsom salt bath and them try again with some food. Carrots are a staple here so I would try them for sure. What can deplete or mess with the sulfate pathway is environmental toxins.(this pathway is needed for the body to handle sals foods) Since moving to our apartment last year, the kids allergies have been out of control. The house is full of mold and we are behind a toxic factory. I am writing this because it is important to look at all factors or you could be eating careful and supping a ton forever if there is another piece to the puzzle. Just a thought.

[DevaMajka]

Originally Posted by bluebirdmama1

I know that when we found the right nutrients my kids could handle a ton of sals. And it happens fast, within days.

It's good to know that you had a similar experience. I'm so happy about this!!

I'll keep aware of the environmental toxin possibility. I'm sure we have some mold in the house. I've not seen any, but maybe it's around. I'll focus on looking, and getting that cleaned up, in case it's contributing.

I remember thinking - huh, maybe he's reactive to something else, not sals... Nah. Went back to my food journal, and he was clearly reacting to sals - but we gained back sals foods in a different order than you would think from the lists.

Haha. It's funny that you had the same thoughts I'm having. I'm excited to experiment a little bit. It seems like *something* has completely shifted, so I'm sure we can do some sals now. I'll keep it moderate and try not to overload him, but I can't help but think of some yummy green options for today. lol.

[DevaMajka]

So this is wierd- I've been eating normally, as far as sals go, for 5 days. Ds has had apples most of those days, and I've even eaten frozen fruit with berries.
His rash that I had related to sals is still clear. He has a few bumps under his belly button, but that started before I ate any sals, and still looks the same as it did then. He's not itching at that area like he sometimes does before a rash pops up.
I still haven't eaten any orange veggies.

But his sleep the last 2 nights has been awful. Like I can't even move without him waking up and needing nursed back to sleep. So I'm going to back off the sals and see if that helps his sleep. Maybe his tolerance increased enough that it doesn't cause a rash anymore, but still affects his sleep?

I also read that some kids (this is in relation to sals in autistic kids, but it seems like it could be related to sals in ds) with sals problems can have low levels of sulfate (?) in their body, but high levels of sulfur (?) in their urine. Dp has long thought that it was something in ds's urine that gave him the rash.
Now that he has the nutrients he needs to convert the sulfur, maybe there wouldn't be as much in his urine? Just a theory.
Still doesn't totally explain to me why he got a rash every time I tried sweet potato, I don't think.

The wierd thing is, *I* have rashes that seem to be from food now, and since I started having this reaction about a week ago, he hasn't had his rash at all. Could that be related at all?

[mamafish9]

Lots going on. First, sleep reactions come earlier than skin reactions for us with sals - our first reaction is red cheeks. If we don't back off sals with that, we get sleep issues. Then would come itchiness, but we no longer push that hard these days!

Second, he could definitely have had sulfites in his pee, and now he has less (molybdenum would be the magic ingredient there). Sulfates are required for sals processing, but also the PST enzyme to be working (and that one seems to take longer to get moving, in our experience). So watch for all symptoms, not just the rash. Sleep disturbance tells me he's likely still sals reacting.

Last possibility is that he is reacting to your reactions (to gluten, or cashews, or whatever you're reacting to). The byproducts of your reactions are things he needs to process in his body as well, and that can definitely cause sleep issues.

[DevaMajka]

Ah, so my reactions alone could be causing sleep issues in him.

I'm still thinking that sals and sulfites have something to do with it. It seems to make more sense the more I think of it. I'm just happy that his tolerance has gone up. Even the first couple days with apples, his sleep was just fine.

[mamafish9]

Yeah, I'd still suspect sals, just less of a build up reaction - so an apple once a week is OK, apples 3 days in a row, no. The good news is, that's progress!

[DevaMajka]

Can one be sensitive to sulfites if they have no negative reactions to epsom salt baths?
I assumed they had different effects on the body (because sulfites need to be converted to sulfates, right?), but ran across something on the 'net that made it sound like a sulfite sensitive person would react to epsom salts.

Ds's rash is getting worse. It looked fantastic while my mom was here. Even after eating berries! Now it's getting worse, so I'm trying to figure out what's different.
The last day she was here (Sunday), I ate a peep (blue #1) and sulfited french fries (totally forgot they'd be sulfited). His sleep was awful that night.
He was eating slightly less beans, but still eating them.
So today, I realized that while mom was here, I didn't eat any high sulfur vegetables, and only a couple of eggs over 5 days. After she left, I made a dinner with leeks, asparagus, eggs, etc.
Sunday is when his rash started getting worse, and it's a bit worse today.

So I'm guessing it has something to do with sulfites/sulphur or he's not eating enough beans to give him enough mo (even though he still has some a couple times a day). I'm waiting on mo drops from a local naturopath, which I think should be here any time. It's been a couple of weeks.

I've gone over other food chemicals (amines and glutamates) and they just don't fit when his rash gets worse.

eta- I meant to add that I've been eating low sals since Monday. His rash looked good Monday, and has gotten gradually worse since.

[mamafish9]

Epsom salts have sulfAtes. Your body uses mo to convert sulfites to sulfates, but that enzyme can be overwhelmed, especially if you don't have enough mo.

And in our limited experience, artificial colors and flavors are like eating highly concentrated sals, those can cause several days of reactions.

Some people need lots of sulfur foods to handle sals well, some need restricted sulfur foods - depends on your particular genetics and nutrient status. My DS does well on tons of sulfur foods.

[DevaMajka]

That's what I thought about epsom salts.

I would totally blame the blue color, except that I ate the peeps (and man, were they good. lol) on Sunday, and his rash didn't start to look too bad until today. I still am counting it as him possibly reacting to it (due to his sleep, and he had a teeny bit of a rash the next day), but I think that there has to be something else that I've eaten since then.
No more colors, preservatives, etc.

I guess I should do another ED with foods that I'm fairly certain are ok, and then do an official trial of sulfites...and whatever other additives I haven't tried yet.

The one thing that has me confused about sulfites is that he obviously does well eating beans, and doesn't seem to react at all when I eat small amounts of eggs. And cheese and soy (though I've only seen cheese listed on one sulfur/sulfite list).

oh crap. I just remembered I gave him peas last night. so...hmmm.. Obviously they'd be lower in sals than apples, which didn't bother him at all.

sigh. All this delayed reaction stuff is confusing! It's a lot of work to figure it all out.

[mamafish9]

You can keep banging your head against that wall if you want, LOL - or you can just stop eating sulfites for a while

[DevaMajka]

lol. good plan
Only problem is that I think that between sulfites and sals, just about all produce is ruled out. Though maybe I can find a few lowish sal veggies that are low in sulfur.
Do you think it will work if I don't cut out beans, eggs and cheese?

I'll do it though. Gosh, the things we'll do for our kids, eh?

[mamafish9]

I think once you have mo on board, you won't need to be as worried about sulfur foods . And avoid sulfites added to foods, those are a lot more potent.

[DevaMajka]

You're probably right. It seems pretty apparent that mo has already helped, so I'd imagine that supping it will help more. I hope the naturopath gets back to me soon.

I haven't had any added sulfites for a bunch of weeks, except for the potatoes on Sunday (kicking myself for forgetting the sulfites on restaurant potatoes). Of course, his reaction to sulfites could be much different than the one to sals, so maybe I'm looking for a pattern that just won't be there.

Man, I need some chocolate. But no, no chocolate for me. lol. On the bright side, I did get motivated to seriously reduce my sugar intake. I like the way I look now that I'm thinner. I was worried about gaining too much weight back, and decided that sugar was the only thing I could cut without cutting out any nutritional value. Not that this is related to food sensitivities, but I like to look at the bright side of things.

I *just* remembered that last night J could have eaten part of a carrot slice he found on the floor.

[Koalamom]

That MO has been the best for us as well as getting in more omega 3's. Then sals don't seems to bother us much.

Now what I wonder is is it isn't necessarily sals for your kid but just an individual food? DD was rash free for a while and the other day she ate some beef that wasn't grass fed and she got rashes are lingering. You mentioned soy- soy does my kid in real bad, especially hidden soys (like vit E and contaminated olive oil).

[DevaMajka]

Yeah, perhaps. I don't see any obvious pattern as far as single foods (other than sweet potato), but since it's a delayed reaction, I may just not be recognizing it.

I'm going to get some fish oil soon, so hopefully that will help along with the mo!

[DevaMajka]

I went through my food diary with a fine tooth comb. I started thinking that he could be sensitive to sals, amines (but not bananas?), sulfur-y foods (onion family, cabbage family, eggs, and added sulfites of course), and glutamates. But sweet potato and winter squash or pinapple (not sure which) are still the only thing that he's gotten a BAD rash from. The rest are just moderate or even mild.

So I went through and highlighted the foods that fit in each group (with different colors. lol). Since February 2, when I started my food diary, there was exactly ONE day with nothing highlighted. Guess what? The day after that was the ONLY day for the entire time that he had no rash at all whatsoever (not sure why I never paid much attention to that day though). Hmmm...

So today, I'm eating exactly the foods I ate that day. Seems like a start, anyway.