mean kids

[JustSo]

Today at the playground, DS (almost 4 yo) got sand thrown at him in big handfuls by a little girl (looked to be approx 5-6 yo) for no reason! I watched the whole thing. He was sitting, playing in the sand with another little boy for several minutes. The little girl scooted up next to him, and chucked big handfuls all over his head! I leaped to my feet and said "No thank you!" really loudly, three times, "We don't throw sand." The little girl immediately scampered away, with her back to me, not acknowledging me.

I looked at the mom/sitter, hoping she'd offer her own 2 cents, but OF COURSE, she hadn't seen. She had her head buried in a magazine.

I struggled in the moment as to whether or not I should let the mom know what her daughter had just done. In the end, I said nothing and just told DS to play elsewhere away from the little girl.

Not sure I'm looking for suggestions, just wanted to vent. I'm sure my son has done his share of undesirable behaviors while I've split my attention between him and something else. But it just bothered me so much that I watched it all play out and it seemed to be really a deliberately MEAN thing. kwim?

[One_Girl]

Kids who look 5-6 can sometimes be 2-3. My dd was mistaken for a much older child when she was only 2 and it was frustrating for both of us because people often expected her to act much older than she was. When she was two and three she would have put sand on herself because it was fun and on a friend because it was fun for her, she also would have ignored someone else trying to redirect her. She may also have a disability that isn't obvious or she may have tried to engage him in play in an inappropriate way. It is hard to know if it was a truly mean thing or not if she didn't say something, but it certainly would be frustrating to have sand dumped on your child no matter how old the child was.

[pianojazzgirl]

Originally Posted by One_Girl

Kids who look 5-6 can sometimes be 2-3.

Yes, that is true. Since she was a toddler people have always thought that my dd was about 2 yrs older than she is (she's very tall, and I guess older looking?). It's hard to know the full story behind the act I guess. I would hesitate in branding her a "mean kid"

(But then again if I looked over and saw the same thing happen to my dc I might have thought the same thing. )

[LynnS6]

It's too bad that the caregiver didn't notice, it was a teachable moment.

Mostly I just comfort myself with the knowledge that my kids have had random bad days too, and I hope it's one of those.

[RiverSky]

I might have said to the caregiver with the magazine, "Excuse me, is that your child? She just threw sand in my son's eyes for no reason, and though children make mistakes like that and I understand, I am very worried that his cornea could have been scratched. Could you please remind her that it isn't appropriate behavior?"

[AbbieB]

My 6 year old still thinks getting sand all over herself and anyone near by is really fun. I doubt she would do it to a random stranger but a friend, new playmate at the park or her brother would be tempting targets. FTR I know this about my child so I keep an eye on her and would redirect her or have her leave the sandbox if it happened again.

I don't think you should necessarily attribute nasty intentions to her behavior. A simple keep the sand in the sandbox type statement would be appropriate. No need to raise your voice or stand over her. Kids don't get subtle messages like "No thank you." Strangers raising their voice can be scary.

Just out of curiosity, how did you child handle it? Did he seem upset? Cry? Or just a little stunned and uncomfortable? I can see getting upset about it if your child was upset.

I know it's frustrating when other kids parents are distracted at the play ground and there is a need for redirection.

Some sand in the hair and on clothes is not the end of the world. Try to let it go. It seems to be a common thing for the kids at our local park to pour sand on each other, but it almost always feet, hands or legs. It also seems inevitable that at some point a child will experiment with throwing sand. The parents generally just redirect, even if the kid is not theirs.

[NiteNicole]

I don't know why they put sand in parks, they all want to throw it. Maybe she was being "mean" and maybe she just acted on an impulse. I think telling her, hey, sand in the eyes hurts, no throwing, is plenty (or like you said, we don't throw sand). And that's essentially what you did. I would say if it happened again, then you say, WHERE IS YOUR MOMMY or talk to the mom.

My daughter is four. She has been able to say, "My name is S, would you like to play" since she was two (obviously, we gave her the words, she didn't think of it on her own, but she ALWAYS wanted to make contact with any kid within eyesight and she needed a polite way to do it) but I've noticed a lot of kids don't really know how to ask to play or how to join in. Maybe it was a clumsy attempt to join in?

[JustSo]

Agreed, strangers with loud voices can be scary, but when my kid is getting dumped on for no apparent reason, MamaBear just comes out.

One_Girl, thank you for your point that she may have a disability. Truth be told, she doesn't seem quite right (I've seen this mom and her daughters before at this park). And I have seen the mom yell and say not-so-GD things to her girls and manhandle them a bit. That's the main reason I didn't tell the mom about the sand throwing, and chose to just re-locate my son instead. You just never know what people will do. And seeing as how we go to this park frequently, it's very very likely that we'll see them again.

I really do think that children come into this world loving and kind. But some of them get mistreated from a very young age and do very quickly turn into "mean" kids...

[2cutiekitties]

Originally Posted by LynnS6

It's too bad that the caregiver didn't notice, it was a teachable moment.

I agree that it was a teachable moment. OP why did you say no thank you? Just curious I understand you were horrified, but I would have talked to the little girl and told her that it wasnt nice to put sand on someone else. Sounded like you were pretty sharp with her.

[JustSo]

Originally Posted by 2cutiekitties

I agree that it was a teachable moment. OP why did you say no thank you? Just curious I understand you were horrified, but I would have talked to the little girl and told her that it wasnt nice to put sand on someone else. Sounded like you were pretty sharp with her.

ummm... refer to my pp about mama bear rearing her head. and yes, ITA, in the past, I have said what you've suggested: "it's not nice putting sand in someone else as it could get in their eyes". believe me, I have given that speech before. but this was different. she was definitely an older child who was forcefully throwing handfuls of sand at my ds (not just an experimental sprinkle or even one good toss), whose back was turned. maybe i'm overreacting or maybe one just had to have been there.

and as for teachable moments, I guess I'm having trouble finding the balance between honoring my instinct to, first and foremost, protect my child and "teaching" or providing gentle discipline to someone else's child, yk?

[new2this]

I don't understand the "No thank you" part either. To me it sounds more confusing then saying "No, we we shouldn't throw sand" That is more direct and less confusing in my eyes.

Of course you protect your child, bu tin doing so you can also talk in a gd way to the other child.

I am not sure what it is with sand and those pebble rocks but even at 5 or 6 where they should know its not ok to throw kids still do. Its like a wow factor in watching it go all over the place I think more then actually being mean.

[mama2toomany]

As a mama to a special needs child I can say I would have been ticked at someone being stern with my child, especially saying something so confusing as No Thank You. It just wouldn't make sense to her or to me. If it ever happened that my child did something like that, I would much rather the parent of the "victim" come to me

But that being said, my dd is way too passive to put sand on anyone except herself. Had she done it, I would actually look at the child she did it too and see his response.. If he was upset I probably would have redirected my dd and reminded her to be nice.


But I would have some cool words for a mother that scolded my dd, especially one that doesn't know her or her needs.

And if I came here and saw something about my special needs child being "not right" that would probably make me very sad.

At the end of the day, no one got hurt, and I wouldn't say this child was being mean at all.. maybe just her way of interacting. I notice children who think they are the same age as my daughter (they are actually younger then she is, she is small). Do all sorts of stuff with her, including putting sand on her, I wait for her cue, if she seems upset I step in and deal with her. Its not my place to scold someone elses child, especially over something that didn't do damage.

[PGTlatte]

I would not hesitate for a moment to immediately stop another child from doing something hurtful to mine, even if their own parent/caregiver was right there. IMO a firm "no thank you" is actually a pretty nice way of doing that.

If it was my kid who was doing something hurtful or disruptive, even if I am right there, I would not mind at all for another parent/caregiver to deliver a "no". In fact I would appreciate it. As long as it's done in a civil manner (not yelling), I would be completely ok with it. I would feel bad that I had not been on the scene first to stop him myself, and thankful that another adult had stepped in...and I would back the other adult up.

I realize there is a wide range of how people feel about other adults addressing their child. I feel that when we are sharing a public play space with other people, and our kids interact with other people's kids, there may be other adults who get involved too. I would not want another parent/caregiver to say nothing if one of my kids did something to their child that was a problem. I only expect that they will be civil about how they say it. And when I feel the need to set a limit with someone else's child in order to protect my own, I am firm but civil. I do my best to choose very clear words about the exact behavior that is a problem and the limit I am setting, ie "you may not push him".

If I was not okay with the possibility of other adults occasionally needing to say something to my child regarding behavior at the park, ie "this is her shovel, and she is using it right now", (or for some reason on that day not comfortable with the particular adults who were present, which sometimes happens) then I would shadow my own kid very closely and make sure I was the first to deal with any situation that came up regarding his behavior.

[SiobhanAoife]

I am confused about what "No thank you" even means in this context. Wouldn't "No throwing sand" or "No, do not do that" or if you're trying to model etiquette "No, please don't do that" be clearer? If someone came over to me and said "No thank you" loudly I wouldn't have a clue what they were talking about.

[bjorker]

Originally Posted by RiverSky

I might have said to the caregiver with the magazine, "Excuse me, is that your child? She just threw sand in my son's eyes for no reason, and though children make mistakes like that and I understand, I am very worried that his cornea could have been scratched. Could you please remind her that it isn't appropriate behavior?"

See, I'd just tell the girl myself and be done with it. If she was being a big overbearing bully for any period of time and not listening to me, I'd talk to the caretaker, but usually me saying something to the kid is enough. Nicely, I might add, as if I was talking to my own child. I really don't step in like that too often, because what's appropriate behaviour and what's not is widely variant person-to-person. However if it's something that is hurting my child or likely to hurt my child (or someone else's child) outside of normal, acceptable childsplay, then I say something.

[luvmybaby333]

Would you leap to your feet and intimidatingly/ very loudly speak to your own child that way? If not, then I don't see why you would think that it was appropriate for you to do so to a another small child. "Mama-bear" or not, this is the GD section of the board, no? It seems as though if you are GD your own child, you would think that ALL children deserve that sort of treatment. Especially children that come from apparently not-so-gentle homes. Who knows, maybe a kind and gentle word could have gotten through to her? Whereas being bullied by a grown-up likely just scared her enough to cause her to "scamper away" for the moment... leaving her with a less-than-clear picture of what she did wrong and how she could change her behavior next time.

If a child that age is "mean", then there is most definitely a reason for that behavior (as you , yourself, pointed out.) If something like this happens again, I would suggest trying another, *more gentle*, approach with the girl. She might actually listen to someone who isn't yelling or manhandling her, ya know?

[Just1More]

I have an "instant mad" button when other people aren't watching their children, and their children hurt mine, or are being difficult to them. The park isn't a free for all. And yes, I am ALWAYS watching my children.

I usually direct myself to my child, though, to teach THEM how to handle other unpleasant situations on their own. I may say something to the other child, "It isn't nice to throw sand. That hurts. Please don't throw sand at us." Or, I encourage my child to say, "Please don't throw sand at me." If it keeps happening, we go play somewhere else. I don't want my child to feel "the victim" in these sorts of situations.

But, I have a really, really hard time keeping my cool. Especially when it progresses to pushing and hitting. Repeatedly. And no one is really doing anything about it. Explaining all the reasons we don't do that to a 2yo is lovely, and a step in the right direction, but in a public place, I believe in a little bit of prevention, ya' know?

And, when my children have been small, and unpredictable, I stay with them. We play with the sand together, for example. It really limits the amount of damage they can do, or that can be done to them, before I can redirect. Sure, if no one is there, they play on their own a bit, but the second someone else comes, I move closer to my child.

[JustSo]

Originally Posted by laundrycrisis

I would not hesitate for a moment to immediately stop another child from doing something hurtful to mine, even if their own parent/caregiver was right there. IMO a firm "no thank you" is actually a pretty nice way of doing that.

Thank you. I was feeling pretty unsupported for a while.

FTR, and I don't know why I feel the need to do so, but I do... I did say in my OP that I said "No, thank you. We don't throw sand." (as opposed to just "no, thank you"). And I said it loudly enough for her to hear, in hopes that she would stop shoveling sand by the handful at my son. I have difficulty projecting my voice, so apparently, I wasn't "yelling" because the mother, who was just as far away from me as the little girl, didn't hear me at all, but the little girl did cease the behavior

And yes, if I saw my son doing this exact same behavior, I would have said the exact same thing in the same firm voice: "No, thank you. We don't throw sand." I'm not sure why this is being interpreted as not GD or confusing???

[JustSo]

Originally Posted by mama2toomany

As a mama to a special needs child I can say I would have been ticked at someone being stern with my child, especially saying something so confusing as No Thank You. It just wouldn't make sense to her or to me. If it ever happened that my child did something like that, I would much rather the parent of the "victim" come to me

But that being said, my dd is way too passive to put sand on anyone except herself. Had she done it, I would actually look at the child she did it too and see his response.. If he was upset I probably would have redirected my dd and reminded her to be nice.

But I would have some cool words for a mother that scolded my dd, especially one that doesn't know her or her needs.

And if I came here and saw something about my special needs child being "not right" that would probably make me very sad.

At the end of the day, no one got hurt, and I wouldn't say this child was being mean at all.. maybe just her way of interacting. I notice children who think they are the same age as my daughter (they are actually younger then she is, she is small). Do all sorts of stuff with her, including putting sand on her, I wait for her cue, if she seems upset I step in and deal with her. Its not my place to scold someone elses child, especially over something that didn't do damage.

Apologies if I've offended you with previous post. I can't imagine how challenging every day is with a special needs child. I would probably share your reaction and be that much more protective of my child.

I'm curious then what would do or have done if/when someone else's child was being aggressive with your child when the caregiver isn't around or noticing?

Seems there are definitely a wide range of GD responses to this incident, which I find interesting.

Also, I'm finding myself uncomfortable having used the phrase "mean kids." Especially when they are younger. I truly believe all children are born with love in their hearts, and that it's through mistreatment by caregivers that they learn "mean" behavior.

[nola79]

I would have also corrected the other child, but not with "no thank you." I don't get that either.
Also wanted to touch on the "mean" topic. If the girl was throwing sand at your son with his back turned, she was probably just trying to get his attention. Kids do strange things, and while unappropriate, it may not have come from a mean place.