Husband has been "prescribed" a low-fat, cholesterol-lowering diet...help! - Page 3

[PatienceAndLove]

Originally Posted by organicmidwestmama

i wasnt really refering to fruit, though some fruits (bananas, grapes, melon to name a few) are quite high in sugar albiet they do come with a good dose of vitamins. i was refering to honey, maple syrup, agave, sugar, etc. i think folks lie me who are into nutrition and cooking are easily swayed by the whole "natural sugar" is ok idea when really agave or honey will still raise your blood glucose and cause health problems.

I am in a phlebotomy class, and we were practicing finger sticks by checking our glucose. One gal's was quite high, and she said "Well, I did eat a couple of bananas before class." Another gal in my class retorted "Oh, that wouldn't raise it- bananas don't have a lot of sugar."
I about fell over.

[ambereva]

Originally Posted by organicmidwestmama

totally true, but the fact is most americans arent getting really significant amounts of brief but intense excercize every day. many people arent doing this, and if that is the case they will get fat and sick (metabolic problems) consuming lots of sugar, naturally occuring or not. an athlete, or someone being as active as we are assuming our ansestors 1000 yrs back, can use carbs and sugar for fuel easily, but a sedentary person will have an impossible time doing this.

Exactly. For the life of me I can NOT figure out why our culture has embraced reducing carbs as the answer to this problem though. Carbs are not the enemy, inactivity is. Rather than eliminate carbs (and all the wonderful nutrients we get from them) from our diets, what we need to be doing (as a species and as a culture) is increasing our activity levels to more closely approximate the activity levels at which our bodies evolved to function optimally.

And before anyone say 'oh but we can't all be triathletes', I get about 60 minutes of exercise a day. Period. 60 measly minutes.

[cristeen]

Originally Posted by ambereva

Rather than eliminate carbs (and all the wonderful nutrients we get from them) from our diets,

I'm not going to argue exercise, I believe the pps have covered that. But I do want to ask you to expound upon this point you made. Everyone claims that there are so many "wonderful nutrients" that we can only get from high-carb foods, yet no one has been able to point to them. I would love if you could identify these elusive nutrients for us.

I'll also say that no one was advocating eliminating carbs - in order to accomplish that, you have to be eating a meat-only diet because even eggs contain carbs. The recommendations on here have been to eliminate high carb foods, which leaves plenty of delicious carb-containing fruits and vegetables, eggs, cheese, nuts, dairy, etc., to choose from. What it does eliminate is high-sugar fruits and vegetables, refined grains and pure sugars like sugar, honey and maple syrup.

[organicmidwestmama]

Originally Posted by PatienceAndLove

I am in a phlebotomy class, and we were practicing finger sticks by checking our glucose. One gal's was quite high, and she said "Well, I did eat a couple of bananas before class." Another gal in my class retorted "Oh, that wouldn't raise it- bananas don't have a lot of sugar."
I about fell over.

2 large bananas have 25 grams of sugar each, totalling 50 grams! 50 grams is equal to drinking more then one can of coke, or eating 2 servings of hagaan daaz ice cream (not that i would know from experience on the latter vice ), so yes, bananas can raise blood glucose just as any carb or sugar can.

ambreva- i personally would not suggest to anyone to "eliminate" all carbohydrates, a zero-carb diet is very hard, if not impossible to follow safely and effectively.

i would suggest, for a person interested in the possible benefits of lower carb eating, checking out this fitness experts website; www.marksdailyapple.com he has a chart with his recomendations on carbs depending on weight loss/maintenance goals and activity. basically a moderately active person such as myself, who doesnt need to lose weight but also doesnt want to gain any should stay under 150 g a day, and preferably around 100g. that isnt all that low, and certainly isnt "eliminating" carbs.

100 g a day for me looks like 1 cup of fruit, 1/2 a cup of nuts or a few tablespoons nut butter, lots of leafy greens- perhaps half a bunch of kale, onions, a cup of butternut squash and some sort of treat like 80% dark chocolate daily.

i am omnivorous and will say that being lower carb would be a challenge on a vegan diet. however coconut products ie. coconut milk, starch, oil and even fresh coconut juice could be on a lower carb diet. also soy, though i dont think its great for a number of reasons, is very low carb.

furthermore, trying to be as active as our hunter-gatherer ancestors is really not that simple as saying a certin number of minutes a day. they were presumably, active in intense spurts some days and other days walked 50 miles. also every hunter-gatherer group ate animal foods. they also sought out carb containing foods but thier main source of fuel was animal derived. meat actually contains numerous vitamins and minerals, often in higher amounts then veggies and in much higher amounts then fruit.

and generally speaking, american culture HAS NOT embraced lower carb eating. the usda recomends 300 g daily for everyone, many clasically trained nutritionists say the same and expound the virtues of a low fat, high carb diet.

[Juvysen]

This may have already been discussed, but, this lecture was really interesting on the link between fructose and cholesterol/fat... he goes through the biochemistry of it, but I think he does it in a way that it's pretty easy for anyone to understand. Great and interesting talk, imo. He points out that in nature, fructose is pretty much accompanied by fiber, which makes it less harmful...

[425lisamarie]

Originally Posted by cristeen

I'm not going to argue exercise, I believe the pps have covered that. But I do want to ask you to expound upon this point you made. Everyone claims that there are so many "wonderful nutrients" that we can only get from high-carb foods, yet no one has been able to point to them. I would love if you could identify these elusive nutrients for us.

I'll also say that no one was advocating eliminating carbs - in order to accomplish that, you have to be eating a meat-only diet because even eggs contain carbs. The recommendations on here have been to eliminate high carb foods, which leaves plenty of delicious carb-containing fruits and vegetables, eggs, cheese, nuts, dairy, etc., to choose from. What it does eliminate is high-sugar fruits and vegetables, refined grains and pure sugars like sugar, honey and maple syrup.

I don't think there is a need for high carb foods. I mean, I can go days with eating vegetables, fish, etc. I workout hard, so I view carbs kind of on an as needed basis. I eat fruit, not too much, and I eat lentils and quinoa, sometimes oats and rice. I don't like meat and have a hard time eating it but i do love turkey, some chicken, eggs,e tc. I dont' do dairy either. I don't 'actually physically have an issue if I eat bread, lots of fruit etc because I don't have any sort of medical condition and I workout so much, etc.

I really don't like definitive opinions. I think moving in any fashion daily is very very important, everyone knows that. I think healthy eating is important. I don't think everyone NEEDS to do low carb, no fruit no starches, etc, but it certainly is beneficial for some. AND if you are a person who is very active and stresses your body it is kind of hard to NOT have enough carbs. But where you get those carbs doens't need to mean sugars. I eat an insane amount of vegetables and lentils. Soemtimes my carbs add up to a couple hundred a day but nothing from starches sugars or grains.

I don't think I offend anyone or cause defensiveness (?).....to say (x) WILL happen if you do (y) is a hard grounds for discussion, because you don't know that. You don't know if someone eats a load of fruit and bread and exercises a lot it WILL STILL NOT affect them. I actually lost 100 pounds and i'm training for a bodybuilding competition, but that doesn't mean what I do will work for someone else.

[Punchy Kaby]

I think the biggest thing about diet and exercise is to get to a point where you eat healthy food and exercise=feel good, eat bad foods and sit around=feel icky.

I think many people have no idea what 'feeling good' REALLY means. Every person will have different foods that make them feel good/run well.

[serenbat]

2 large bananas have 25 grams of sugar each, totalling 50 grams! 50 grams is equal to drinking more then one can of coke, or eating 2 servings of hagaan daaz ice cream (not that i would know from experience on the latter vice ), so yes, bananas can raise blood glucose just as any carb or sugar can.

--YES!!!


and along with the sugar you get - fiber, potassium, manganese, A, B & C -

to us it's a great trade off - I really think a little of this and a little of that add up to the best (that also means diet & exercise)

Everyone claims that there are so many "wonderful nutrients" that we can only get from high-carb foods, yet no one has been able to point to them. I would love if you could identify these elusive nutrients for us.

HIGH carbs that we LOVE!
Fruits-
apricot
banana
blueberries
dates
figs
grapefruit

Vegetables-
beans
carrots
jerusalem artichoke

Others
some other types of nuts-
cashews

[425lisamarie]

serenbat us too.....and along with those bananas of course we'd have something with some protein too, as always. There seems to be a lot of definitiveness and misinformation here.

eating bananas all day long with nothing else with it is bad
exercising and eating bad is bad
eating good and sitting on your ass all day is bad

I don't know why there is this paranoia to just live happily, healthfully and moderately. It's like if you are not engulfed every second of your day avoiding this, only eating that you somehow are falling short. THAT in itself is a very bad stressor.

My goal is to have the kids eat fruit and veggies, and lots of protein. We LOVE carrots, and peas, and all veggies including the higher carb ones. If I strive to make the most of what we eat veggies and protein, I am great with whatever else we eat.

[Violet2]

I have only skimmed replies so if I repeat something, forgive me.

1. Your DH has to want to do this. If you are doing all the heavy lifting, he's not going through the growth process into an awareness that HE needs to fix this. It's not possible to 'enable' someone into good health no matter how hard we try. I have a similar situation with my DH. I would suggest trying to get your DH some resources so he can learn for himself and take responsibility for his health. If it doesn't come organically from him, it's not going to work.

2.For normal people, sugar is fine. For people who are having issues (either high triglycerides or insulin) sugar in any form, even if it is healthy, is poison. Once you cross that line in your health, you have to start thinking about sugars in a completely different manner. The fact is, if you cut carbs, you'll rapidly rapidly cut the tryglycerides which will reduce total cholesterol. Affecting LDL and HDL is harder in my experience and that is where I'd look at fish oil supplements etc...

3.Exercise helps with glucose and cholesterol and blood pressure, but for fast results, cutting sugar is the way to go. Exercise also has to be treated like a medication. You can't miss a dose.

V

[cristeen]

Originally Posted by serenbat

and along with the sugar you get - fiber, potassium, manganese, A, B & C -

HIGH carbs that we LOVE!

I'm afraid that really didn't address the question asked. I wasn't asking what high-carb foods you love, but what nutrients those high carb foods contain that cannot be found anywhere else, which was the pp's assertion. I love high carb foods too, in fact the only thing on your list that I don't love is jerusalem artichokes, which I've never tried. That doesn't mean that any of them contain nutrients that I can't get somewhere else...

Fiber - I don't think I really need to be specific, since all vegetable matter contains fiber.
Potassium - garlic, nuts, avocado, spinach, winter squash, yogurt, fish, meat, poultry, dairy.
Manganese - avocado, nuts and seeds, seaweed, blueberries, egg yolks, green leafy vegetables
A - liver, asparagus, beet greens, broccoli, carrots, collards, garlic, kale, red peppers, spinach, chard
B - which one, there are several B vitamins, all of which can be found in eggs, meat and various other sources
C - asparagus, avocado, beet greens, broccoli, brussels sprouts, collards, kale, onions, pepeprs, spinach, chard

So that still leaves the original question... what nutrient is so elusive as to be found only in high carb foods, necessitating their ingestion, as the pp asserted?

[rhiandmoi]

I don't think anyone said there are nutrients that you can only get from carbs.

[cristeen]

Originally Posted by rhiandmoi

I don't think anyone said there are nutrients that you can only get from carbs.

That was the implication that I have been asking for clarification on.

Originally Posted by ambereva

Rather than eliminate carbs (and all the wonderful nutrients we get from them) from our diets

[newcastlemama]

I wanted to tell the OP that I had a blood panel done by my ND. I had high total cholesterol (249). BUT a very good ratio, optimal triglycerides, glucose, and low BP (the things that matter IMO). She said since my tris were good she could tell I excercised. She said since my dad has high blood sugar and high tris that it is really a blood sugar problem (He generally eats Nurti-system and low-fat/ low-cholesterol SAD). So, driving down the insulin by controlling carbs AND excercise I believe is the most beneficial for triglyceride/glucose numbers. How many carbs you can tolerate will be personal, but of course the carbs would be from healthy sources.

I think the doctor on PaNu said that if you have good blood sugar numbers and total cholesterol under 300 there is no reason to worry. I am not corncerned about mine. My ND actually said that she looked it up and my profile is connected with malabsorbsion and that makes sense with my digestion issues. I also have Lyme disease and it seems that cholesterol comes in to help the immune system so that would also makes sense of why my body has more. So your dh could have underlying issues that are making his numbers higher.

Jen

[organicmidwestmama]

Originally Posted by 425lisamarie

... There seems to be a lot of definitiveness and misinformation here.

eating bananas all day long with nothing else with it is bad
exercising and eating bad is bad
eating good and sitting on your ass all day is bad

I don't know why there is this paranoia to just live happily, healthfully and moderately. It's like if you are not engulfed every second of your day avoiding this, only eating that you somehow are falling short. THAT in itself is a very bad stressor.

...

im personally not stressed by thinking about what i eat, and agree that if it is an obsession that isnt healthy.

not sure what info you believe is misinformed but i feel like ive done my research for myself and eat what i believe is good for me, what helps me feel great and look good too. it might not be what other people believe and thats a ok.
do i know "definitely what diet is right for you or anyone else? no way, but i have been actively involved in studying various aspects of nutrition and lifestyle and have some knowledge regarding the subjects.

also, i am NOt saying children should be eating low carb, mine do not. i am saying, though, that someone who is experiencing metabolic related health issues may seriously want to investigate for themselves whether low carb could help them.

425lisamarie- i have seen in other posts on mdc that you yourself are into lc living so im not sure why you are knocking it, ive also seen your pics and you look great so whatever youre doing is clearly working for you!

[rhiandmoi]

Originally Posted by cristeen

That was the implication that I have been asking for clarification on.

But that statement doesn't say "And all the wonderful nutrients that we can only get from carbs".

If what you are or are not eating is keeping you healthy, keep at it, whatever it is. If you are dealing with sickness, allergies, intolerance, metabolic or hormonal issues address those as needed. I don't think there is any one right way to eat. Some people do really well on low carb. Some don't. Some do well on veg*n and some do well on primal. There are 6 billion people on this planet, I think it is pretty ridiculous that any one diet is suited to all of them.

[425lisamarie]

Originally Posted by organicmidwestmama

im personally not stressed by thinking about what i eat, and agree that if it is an obsession that isnt healthy.

not sure what info you believe is misinformed but i feel like ive done my research for myself and eat what i believe is good for me, what helps me feel great and look good too. it might not be what other people believe and thats a ok.
do i know "definitely what diet is right for you or anyone else? no way, but i have been actively involved in studying various aspects of nutrition and lifestyle and have some knowledge regarding the subjects.

also, i am NOt saying children should be eating low carb, mine do not. i am saying, though, that someone who is experiencing metabolic related health issues may seriously want to investigate for themselves whether low carb could help them.

425lisamarie- i have seen in other posts on mdc that you yourself are into lc living so im not sure why you are knocking it, ive also seen your pics and you look great so whatever youre doing is clearly working for you!

Not against it at all. I don't eat low carb like others in the sense that I don't avoid fruit, or things like carrots/peas but I don't really eat grains much at all. I"m knocking the attitude....so I'm not posting in this thread anymore. I think it's totally ridiculous to bring out an attitude and you guys know who you are . OH and I DO eat VERY low carb sometimes, I also eat carbs sometimes.....the brunt of my diet is veggies and protein. I am just speaking in the general sense of moderation and stress

Seriously, when the sarcasm and attitude comes out, it' s just childish and discredits anything you have to say.

And btw there's pretty much nothing "elusive and magical" about any one food. You can get your nutrients on many different diets. I am never knocking or judging anyone. I just don't know why everyone gets so offended lol.

Actually my only point that clearly has been misinterpreted (maybe my fault) is that no one should be tellin anyone else what *IS* better.

I think everyone has the ability to avoid grains and sugars and that diet WOULD basiclaly work for anyone, but I do not believe everyone can eat higher carb. FOr sure it's more isolating and hard to stick to 100% of the time and for kids it can be difficult to be so strict, so if there are NOT obvious dietary/physical reasons to avoid some then I think it is beneficial to include them as a smaller part of the diet.

K i'm done explaining myself LOL.....I just should be quiet I don't wnat to be thought of as judgemental or opinionated .

[ambereva]

Originally Posted by rhiandmoi

I don't think anyone said there are nutrients that you can only get from carbs.

Right you are, no one did say it.

Though to be technical, carbs are a nutrient and you can only get them from carbs.

I'm only one person, and everyone is different, but here's what happens to me if I try to reduce my carbs below about 350 a day:

1.) I'm unable to reach my nutrient targets (vitamins, minerals, phytonutrients) through diet alone and have to resort to supplementation, which is inferior to food based nutrition, and...

2.) my energy levels begin to dip, which makes my workouts harder and less effective, and I just generally move less in my day to day life (ie, I'll sit on the subway rather than stand, etc). This results in a lower calorie burn, which means I need to cut back my calories in order to avoid gaining fat, which results in even lower energy levels and nutrition...it's a pretty ugly cycle.

I really like Mark's Daily Apple (to address a previous comment) and agree with him on many things, but I think he's missing the mark on his carb recommendations. In spite of being in his carb 'danger zone', my ldl/hdl ratio is 1:1, my blood glucose levels are optimal, my body fat %age is 18.5, I've lost 80 pounds over the last 18 months, and I have zero belly fat.

[organicmidwestmama]

Originally Posted by ambereva

Right you are, no one did say it.

Though to be technical, carbs are a nutrient and you can only get them from carbs.

I'm only one person, and everyone is different, but here's what happens to me if I try to reduce my carbs below about 350 a day:

1.) I'm unable to reach my nutrient targets (vitamins, minerals, phytonutrients) through diet alone and have to resort to supplementation, which is inferior to food based nutrition, and...

2.) my energy levels begin to dip, which makes my workouts harder and less effective, and I just generally move less in my day to day life (ie, I'll sit on the subway rather than stand, etc). This results in a lower calorie burn, which means I need to cut back my calories in order to avoid gaining fat, which results in even lower energy levels and nutrition...it's a pretty ugly cycle.

I really like Mark's Daily Apple (to address a previous comment) and agree with him on many things, but I think he's missing the mark on his carb recommendations. In spite of being in his carb 'danger zone', my ldl/hdl ratio is 1:1, my blood glucose levels are optimal, my body fat %age is 18.5, I've lost 80 pounds over the last 18 months, and I have zero belly fat.

i think MDAs recs would be have to be different for vegans (he's patently pro-meat eatin') because the ajority of vegan foods are naturaly high carb. maybe carb recs should be more specific and address whether the carbs are from whole foods like fruit and veg, or from refined stuff like cereal, chips, crackers, cookies, etc. obviously you, and me and everyone else, has to get enough food in to meet our energy requirements. i am probably nowhere near as active as you, i dont run really ever and my activities are more subtle things like walking, biking. so i find i gain weight if i eat grains, especially wheat, and sugar. off topic kind of but here is a blog i like with recipes and nutritional info specific to vegans and lower-glycemic eatin'-

http://www.meghantelpnerblog.com/

[cristeen]

Originally Posted by ambereva

I didn't say what you think I said.

Then I apologize for the misunderstanding.