conflicts of religion and diet

[Koalamom]

Anyone ever conflicted between what you think is right dietary wise and religious diet?
I do not want to get into specifics here or have a arguing religious discussion but just wanted some unbiased support/advise.

My religion is against drugs, tobacco, and coffee, all things that I can for sure avoid and those are the rules. Easy, understandable.

But it is recommended that "grain is the staff if life, especially wheat" and to "eat meat sparingly, only in winter, cold, or famine." This is so against what I have learned about traditional diets and it just makes me so frustrated. These aren't rues but are highly recommended and I just don't want to follow it, but I feel guilty like it is a sin to not follow it. And logically more meat/less grain seems right and I feel healthy when I eat lots of meat, atleast everyday.

I want to do the best for my children and myself. This is a conflict of religion and diet.

[greenmamapagan]

Yes, yes, yes! Despite my username we are Buddhist. It's really tough to find a balance.

[lolar2]

What about vegetables and fish?

[ema-adama]

I have just been thinking about religion and diet. I am grain free at the moment, and now I am not sure about Shabbat and not eating challah, the traditional bread that is served and central to the practice of Shabbat. I am not orthodox, so I can just skip it, but I wonder what solutions there are for not having challah, but still keeping the prayers for Shabbat?

[Magelet]

to edemama, I know there are some ladies around who have recipes for gluten free challah. I don't know if that is an option for you just on shabbat, or not. I'm no rabbi, but if you are comfortable with it, it seems to me you could light candles, say kiddish, and not say ha motzi over challah. Afterall, if it's a health thing, your health comes first. If you are sicker on grains, then it's a mitzvah to NOT eat challah.

To the OP:
I don't know about your religion, in judaism, health comes before all. If you are not healthy on a high grain diet then that's that and even if it were mandated, if it made you sick, then it makes you sick, and you can't do it.
I would also say that a diet moderately high in properly prepared grains, and sparing with meat (depending on the definition) can be very healthy for some people. You could eat sparingly of meat, and mostly eat broth in things, and little amounts of meat, and only large quantities on special days, and eat more dairy and eggs. You could at least give it a try and see if it works for you (unless you already know that it doesn't.)
Personally I feel that in this situation, you should eat a higher proportion of wheat and grains and lower of meat, however, that proportion might be much more meat than others of your religion, if that is what makes you feel good.
I'm of the opinion that most people with a healthy gut flora and digestive track can handle a fairly high proportion of properly prepared grains, as long as they also get enough meat, dairy, eggs, etc. However, many people cannot, as their digestive track is not healthy and they don't absorb non-meat foods very well. If that is the case for you, then imo, it would be considered a case of "cold", because it means essentially your digestive track is a little bit sick. However, I'm not coming from your religious background, and you might get an answer more suited to your religion from your priest/rabbi/whoever is well educated/spiritual authority in your religious community. That's just my 2 cents from a different religious background.

[TwilightJoy]

Originally Posted by bluebirdmama1

Anyone ever conflicted between what you think is right dietary wise and religious diet?
I do not want to get into specifics here or have a arguing religious discussion but just wanted some unbiased support/advise.

My religion is against drugs, tobacco, and coffee, all things that I can for sure avoid and those are the rules. Easy, understandable.

But it is recommended that "grain is the staff if life, especially wheat" and to "eat meat sparingly, only in winter, cold, or famine." This is so against what I have learned about traditional diets and it just makes me so frustrated. These aren't rues but are highly recommended and I just don't want to follow it, but I feel guilty like it is a sin to not follow it. And logically more meat/less grain seems right and I feel healthy when I eat lots of meat, atleast everyday.

I want to do the best for my children and myself. This is a conflict of religion and diet.

Morman, right? I'm an avid reader of greensmoothiegirl.com and I've seen her quoting those verses before. She's mostly anti-meat (and totally anti-pork), but has a ton of good info. You should check it out. I'm know next to nothing about Mormonism, but I think I remember Robyn posting verses similar to that.

As for what when your religion conflicts with what you think is right, do what you think is best for you and your family.

Another consideration is the time period when your religious texts were written. Were they based off of what the people were doing at the time? Dietary habits have changed so much throughout time.

Overall, do what you think is best for your family, which sounds to me like mostly traditional with some of the religious mixed in.

[Koalamom]

Originally Posted by lolar2

What about vegetables and fish?

We are also advised to eat alot of veggies. I guess the fish aspect in meat.

ema-adama, since I am not from your religion, I can't tell you the specifics, but I do know that it is something to think about, what to eat during a religious service. We have a sacrament and it is always wheat bread. We have gone GF, and I have been "late" every sunday since just to avoid what to do about the sacrament. Guess I should bring my own bread as they can bless it there and just give it to us.

Originally Posted by Magelet

to edemama, I know there are some ladies around who have recipes for gluten free challah. I don't know if that is an option for you just on shabbat, or not. I'm no rabbi, but if you are comfortable with it, it seems to me you could light candles, say kiddish, and not say ha motzi over challah. Afterall, if it's a health thing, your health comes first. If you are sicker on grains, then it's a mitzvah to NOT eat challah.

Any recipes as I need a bread as posted above?

To the OP:
I'm of the opinion that most people with a healthy gut flora and digestive track can handle a fairly high proportion of properly prepared grains, as long as they also get enough meat, dairy, eggs, etc. However, many people cannot, as their digestive track is not healthy and they don't absorb non-meat foods very well. If that is the case for you, then imo, it would be considered a case of "cold", because it means essentially your digestive track is a little bit sick. However, I'm not coming from your religious background, and you might get an answer more suited to your religion from your priest/rabbi/whoever is well educated/spiritual authority in your religious community. That's just my 2 cents from a different religious background.

Good point. I have talked to a religious leader in the past and they have said that the meat and grain thing is not rules as so we can choose, but something spiritually recommended is pretty important to follow. And they say that the wording is vague and for your interpretation through prayer. I was originally a vegan and switched to eating meat after praying about it. It was a pretty profound revelation. Still I need to not get above what I feel is right as I could eat meat all the time. (and I do think that alot or no meat is a personal decision that I am not saying is right or wrong either way). I really need to spend some time praying about this since my religion brings diet into it, this is a praying matter.

Originally Posted by TwilightJoy

Another consideration is the time period when your religious texts were written. Were they based off of what the people were doing at the time? Dietary habits have changed so much throughout time.

Overall, do what you think is best for your family, which sounds to me like mostly traditional with some of the religious mixed in.

Interesting point. Things haven't "changed" in the text, but we have had leaders clarify as to how it pertains to us in our time. This is something to think of as with what Magelet said as what "cold" means for us.

Note- just finished typing this since my dd hit send before I finished typing.

[Koalamom]

How do those for creation feel about the Paleo Diet? Does it conflict with any religious teachings?

[JMJ]

I think that faith can certainly inform which form a traditional diet a person follows. As a Catholic, I try to eat more fish and eggs on Fridays, especially right now since it's Lent, and we are forbidden from eating meat on Fridays of Lent. I've also been meditating a lot recently on the idea of "daily bread" as I work hard to properly prepare my grains (grinding my own wheat, soaking or souring, etc) and make bread almost every day so that I have fresh bread with maximum nutrient content. I'm also figuring out how to properly prepare beans and nuts so that I can vary my proteins so that I'm not always eating meat.

Our communion bread has to be made from wheat, but there is one particular kind that can be used that contains so little gluten that it is considered "gluten free." It's not exactly grain free, though. My grandma has celiac disease, and if she can't get gluten free hosts (like when she's visiting another parish), she just skips the host and takes the cup (usually while some confused ministers look on but don't say anything). For most people, the amount consumed would not be enough to upset a person's digestive system.

I'm not LDS, but I live in Utah, and many of my friends are. From what I understand, your faith wants you to be well. It was my LDS voice teacher who taught me how to make a green tea tonic, explaining to me that her faith prohibits the use of cafeinated tea except for medicinal purposes. If that is the case for something like tea that you are never supposed to have, I would assume that it would be the case for something that you are only supposed to have under some circumstances.

I would be concerned too if I was being tempted to arrive late just so that I could skip the part of the service that interfered with my diet. I think that you need to make the arrangements needed so that you can be comfortable going to the whole service. Both your body and soul need nourishing, and you need to find a way to make peace with the nourishment your body needs and the nourishment your soul needs so that they are not set up in opposition to one another.

I think that if you feel better when you eat meat instead of grains right now, you have a strong case for seeing yourself as a special case. You can picture what kind of traditional diet would be good for a normal, healthy LDS person, and know that you are only deviating from this in order to regain your health. Perhaps when your body is well, you would feel like you are not an exception anymore and could add back in some of the properly prepared grains and move more towards the kind of diet that you think a healthy LDS person should eat.

[Smokering]

"Eat meat sparingly" could still be pretty TF. Meat as in flesh isn't eaten in huge quantities in a lot of TF diets - broth gives you a lot of the goodness, but isn't meat per se. Catholicism considers fish different to meat, but I don't know if Mormonism does... what about fish roe? That's supposed to be uber-nutritious, and I wouldn't call it meat. (Not that I'd call it vegetarian, obviously - I guess I'd vaguely categorise it under seafood.) Also there are eggs and raw dairy and ferments and plenty of TF things along those lines.

[claddaghmom]

Does it really go against TF though? I mean, saying grain is the staff of life isn't saying "eat tons of grain" right?

I thought eating meat sparingly was part of a TF diet?

[fresh_veggie]

Originally Posted by bluebirdmama1

Anyone ever conflicted between what you think is right dietary wise and religious diet?
I do not want to get into specifics here or have a arguing religious discussion but just wanted some unbiased support/advise.

My religion is against drugs, tobacco, and coffee, all things that I can for sure avoid and those are the rules. Easy, understandable.

But it is recommended that "grain is the staff if life, especially wheat" and to "eat meat sparingly, only in winter, cold, or famine." This is so against what I have learned about traditional diets and it just makes me so frustrated. These aren't rues but are highly recommended and I just don't want to follow it, but I feel guilty like it is a sin to not follow it. And logically more meat/less grain seems right and I feel healthy when I eat lots of meat, atleast everyday.

I want to do the best for my children and myself. This is a conflict of religion and diet.

Haha, you're Mormon. I was too. The diet thing actually started the cognitive dissonance and it led me out. I don't eat meat, (I love the TF board though, because I really feel like it's a good diet, just not for me as I do better on no meat, but I do lots of fermented foods and the good dairy) but I just DON'T think grains are the staff of life! There's so much evidence against it.

My advice is not to let them make you feel guilty. You "know in your heart" or whatever ...lol... about your dietary intake. Shouldn't that be your own personal witness? Does Satan care enough about you eating animals that he's leading your carefully down to hell?

And trust me...being a vegetarian in Zion, I've gotten HATE letters from people I don't even know. NO ONE here in Utah follows that, and no one feels guilty (ok maybe some people, but they're a ridiculous minority, and I've never met one - even at BYU).

Have you ever read the part in D&C about how "mild drinks made of grain" are totally ok? That's beer lol.

Best of luck in your journey, and above all else, protect your family the best way you know how!

[fresh_veggie]

To add another point, bone broth is made from an animal that had to be killed. Early leaders in our church were against killing animals for food, so that wouldn't include bone broth in the diet.

The text was written early/mid 1800's, when meat was a rare luxury food and people HAD to eat grains and food that would store during the winter. So you can see how it's changed. But the principle - not to kill animals - can still be applied today, even if meat is much more widely available. The animal still had to die, which was the point they were trying to get across. It used to be a mandate! But alas, no longer. Religions that are supposed to be unchangeable end up changing.

[Smokering]

How do those for creation feel about the Paleo Diet? Does it conflict with any religious teachings?

That's the pre-agriculture diet, right? No grains, raw meat and lots of raw fruit and veg? I don't think that would conflict with a YEC perspective on a practical level - one could just substitute "early humanity" with "Paleolithic". I don't recall if the Bible specifically says when agriculture started...?

To my knowledge, the only alternative diet philosophy Christianity specifically conflicts with would be the type of veganism which states it is wrong, inherently and in all circumstances, to kill an animal for food. Genesis records God giving mankind permission to eat animals, so I'm not sure you could get around that. You could still be a vegan from the perspective that modern CAFO-type animal farming causes suffering - in fact, my sister holds that position, albeit not very consistently.

In theory I'd say Christian principles about mercy, compassion, gluttony, stewardship etc conflict rather strongly with the SAD. But it's not something that comes up that often in sermons...

[mbravebird]

Bluebirdmama, have you read The Maker's Diet? I don't know much about it other than it's TF and it's based on scripture. Not sure if it would help in this dialogue or not, but thought I'd mention it.

[CrunchyChristianMama]

I haven't read the rest of the thread, so I apologize for just jumping in or repeating anything.

Here's my point of view: my faith is in the creator of the universe. He therefore created our bodies, the food we eat, and any dietary suggestions in the Bible. I don't believe He would design rules or recommendations that were contrary to our health, but rather that would improve our health. I follow what I read in Scripture about food because I believe God knows better than anyone else how to keep our bodies healthy.

Just something to think about.

[Smokering]

Are you Jewish? Because if not, God didn't really give us that many dietary recommendations. "Abstain from blood" and rules about gluttony and drunkenness... that's all I can think of. Oh, and the "no meat is unclean" thing in Acts, if you take that literally. I'm not sure how complete a dietary philosophy you can get from that info.

[1jooj]

Hi Mamas, I don't really frequent the TF forum but I'm very interested in the subject and do practice some of the diet. I raise my own meat and eggs, and now also milk my own goats, so we have raw milk as well.

We're Muslim, so we do have dietary restrictions. Some of those have actually led us into TF, though. We slaughter our own animals, which obviously opens the door to organ meats and bone broths. Our chickens are free-range and our ruminants are on grass/hay. We have a pork prohibition, which I am totally good with, and we bleed animals well and don't eat blood. We bleed animals over grass, so the blood goes back into the soil, and we also raise vegetables, so I really feel like we're doing good and sustainable things for the land and our bodies. I truly believe the parts need to fit together, and it's not just about my personal health, but the health of the whole and how my choices contribute.

We also observe an alcohol prohibition...now, I still brew my own kombucha. I know there is alcohol in it, though minimal, and no one has insisted we don't eat ripe fruit, which also contains alcohol.

What I've noticed, though, is that my dh and I eat different diets, even within the context of eating the same meals. He is a bread eater. He eats large amounts of bread at every meal. His culture is a wheat-eating culture. Wheat, then vegetables, and very small amounts of meat. If I eat this way, I feel terrible and gain a lot of weight. I can eat a lot of vegetables and meat, but I avoid bread (and grain in general). He's North African and my people hail from Eastern Europe, and I wonder how much is genetically determined. The way we practice this, every meal is served with bread. I just don't eat it.

Anyway, in our religion we're instructed to read, study and use our heads to think, and to act in ways that are reasonable. We're constantly reminded to take a "middle way," rather than diving off into extremes in any direction. I think TF advocates this, since it's a "close to the source" way of living. If eating bread makes me feel ill, makes me overeat carbohydrates, makes me gain weight and be angry and have headaches, everyone benefits from my abstaining.

[greenmamapagan]

Originally Posted by 1jooj

Anyway, in our religion we're instructed to read, study and use our heads to think, and to act in ways that are reasonable. We're constantly reminded to take a "middle way," rather than diving off into extremes in any direction. I think TF advocates this, since it's a "close to the source" way of living. If eating bread makes me feel ill, makes me overeat carbohydrates, makes me gain weight and be angry and have headaches, everyone benefits from my abstaining.

Hi 1jooj, I recognise your username from the traditional home-makers thread. What you've just described fits well into our religion as well. We are supposed to be practising compassion in all our interactions everyday and since we're not yet enlightened that's almost impossible if we're suffering from eating things that make us sick.

[1jooj]

gmp!

Things on the farm are ramping up like crazy, so I am looking forward to scaling down off-farm work for a while and getting back to keeping proper house!