Bees or Chickens, where would you start?

[ctrygirlatheart]

We currently are trying to grow a lot of our own produce, but are looking to get a little more self sufficient than we currently are. I would like to eventually have both bees and chickens (and a whole lot more) but I want to hit up my landlord for one thing at a time plus money is very tight plus I don't want to get in over my head. Chickens seem like a logical place to start for my family because we consume a lot of eggs and I am not adverse to eating my chickens that are no longer producing. The only thing that worries me is the expense of building a coop and I am slightly concerned about them getting sick and needing a vet or medicine and that costing money. Bees in a way seem easier than chickens, less day to day maintence I guess, although I am not sure I have the proper site for a hive as it is only dappled sun. I've noticed that there just isn't as much bee activity in my garden as I would expect so I think the bees would likely increase my garden yields as well as providing honey. I have 9 mo old, a dog, neighbors, and a husband mildly allergic to bee stings Any suggestions as to what to start with?

[phoebemommy]

Funny, we had a bee/chicken dilemma, too! We wanted chickens, but statutes are tricky here, so we went with bees first. I've not btdt on chickens, but they seem simpler and cheaper than bees, and more consistently productive. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love having bees and want them for the rest of my life, but here's what's hard:

-- It definitely can get expensive. A hive, I'd guesstimate, is $50-100 to put together (depending on the quality of materials), and a package of bees is around $125 here (a little less elsewhere). But then you have meds and/or supplements (if you're going organic), feeders, tools, protective clothing, etc. You can try to go cheap but may find you need a lot of this stuff, and also, it's the kind of thing where you really need to experiment with different options to find out what works best for you. Then, unless you can borrow one, you need an extractor. There are manual ones that are cheaper, but I'm told, if you buy a manual one, you'll hate it and want an electric one. I think our electric one was $800 before shipping. There's also containers for the honey, etc. There are ways to do bees more economically, but often you sacrifice efficiency and quality of life for the bees (which leads to less product).
-- It takes time and skill to get consistent product. They have to build wax and population before they can start making honey for you. It might take most of their first season for a colony to build enough wax, and then you can reuse it for a few seasons.
-- It takes skill to keep a hive alive and functioning as they're supposed to be. There are pests, general colony health, queen issues, swarming, and mystery problems to figure out. It's a lot to learn, and I've found I learn about it best once it's already happened. (Like, oh yeah, I should have noticed all the signs that they were getting ready to swarm BEFORE they swarmed! Whoops!)
-- It is honestly the most complex hobby I've ever come across. There are a million little fascinating things to know, a million little skills, and a million little things that can go wrong. This isn't to say you shouldn't do it -- it's really totally awesome -- but you can't expect a ton of product until you get really good at it. We've done bees for 2 summers, two hives the first summer and three the next, and only harvested 40 pounds of honey out of one hive. You may have it easier in some ways with the weather in California, but at the same time, you have more pests and such to deal with than we do here in AK.

But if you get a calling for bees, by all means, do it! If you want bees and you don't have good sun for them, you can always find somewhere else to place them. A local beekeeping group will have a list of places (farms, parks, gardeners' homes, etc.) who would like a hive on their property but don't want to have to manage it themselves.

[jrabbit]

I love my chickens! I vote chickens because they are low-maintenance and a sure-bet for "getting" something for your time. We have 5 hens in our urban backyard, and we get 3-4 eggs a day - except for during the hottest Houston summer month, when we got 1-2 for just a few weeks.

We got our coop for free, and have spent less than $100 on it over the past year - it needed a new roof, and we just expanded their run. With a little creativity, you can make a coop with repurposed lumber/building materials. Check out backyardchickens.com for lots of info and housing plans. Oh - and I do NOT recommend getting baby chicks. We scoured the area and found some chicken farms that were selling hens of laying age. We also raised some chicks. They are a lot of work and less rewarding than just getting mature hens.

Check your city rules first before you do it. Some cities don't allow beehives, either, though.

--janis
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[Momma2DoubleCuties]

I agree with getting chickens. Very easy and they are a great source of entertainment!! Also they eat up any veggie scraps and stuff so you're not having to find a place for those and of course the eggs...they are delicious! :

[1jooj]

I have both, and I agree, unless you're feeling really called to bees, I recommend trying chickens first. They are less expensive and easier to come by, require less planning (I can only get package bees in spring if I order in November), and are certainly less expensive to start. We've never vetted a chicken, but my first hive of bees froze/starved over winter. Eggs come daily, and many people don't get honey the first year.

Like phoebemommy, I've discovered that I learn it when I experience it, and with bees, it can be complex and expensive. I do love them, and I am always learning, but I find the lessons a little harder. Also, while chickens are day-to-day (feed, water, clean), bees are periodic, but it's more of a performance: protective clothing, tools, gear, heavy lifting...work bees until their patience wears out, cover them back up and return later/next day. We have 5 colonies right now. And I know really almost nothing about them, compared with how well I understand chickens (or, better yet, ruminants).

Either way, do it for the love!

[henny penny]

Chickens!!!!! You get the first payday (eggs) at about 5 months. With bees you are supposed to wait until the second year to harvest honey. I think chickens are much easier and not any more expensive, either. And more fun!

[jtsmom]

I have only had chickens, not bees. But my suggestion is to write down a list of things you want to do, then each year decide which thing(s) you will do.

[Farmers old lady]

Did you know you may be able to rent bees?

We rent a hive from a local beekeeper. We pay an annual fee, and he does all the work!

It really increases the yield of our vegetable crops, especially the cucumbers and squashes.

Perhaps start by looking up "apiary" in your yellow pages, or do an internet search for your area.

It will leave you lots of time to look after the chickens.

[Pepper44]

I want to try bees but I've discovered it takes two years of talking and me doing it by myself before DH suddenly gets on board. I'm still in the process of casually mentioning bees and planting the idea in his head. In a year or so maybe I can get close to actually *having* bees, and he'll be annoyed for a year or two, then one day he'll like them. Every new thing has followed this trend!

We got chickens first. Important things I've learned:

They aren't very expensive at all if you buy your food from a feed store with a mill instead of buying processed name brand food. For example, the Tractor Supply chicken feed is $15-17 for 50 pounds. The feed mill sells their feed for so much cheaper, 100 pounds for $15 and it's freshly ground.

Don't buy adult chickens. That's how you get diseases in your flock. Chickens can be silent carriers of diseases, meaning if they have been sick at some point and recovered they look mostly healthy but remain contagious for life. This is the rule with almost all chicken diseases. Chickens aren't mammals, they don't get colds..any runny nose, watery/bubbly eyes, or rattly chest is a disease that's highly contagious.

Buy chicks instead and keep your flock isolated. You run a small risk of getting diseases from wild birds, but that's just life, you know?

If your chicken gets sick don't bother taking it to the vet. Chickens die really easily. Unfortunate fact. I've been through this one before, because I accidentally bought diseased chickens the first time I got birds.

If you get one with an injury that needs treatment for infection then apply neosporin, and/or buy a $15 bottle of penicillin G from the feed store and inject it yourself. It's really easy!

www.backyardchickens.com has forums with lots of info about injuries and coop building and chicken behavior. I don't recommend you post about parenting there in the family section though, HAH.

[mamadelbosque]

Another vote for chickens My dad had bees once upon a time, oh, 15 or 20 years ago (I only vaguely remmeber them and I'm 25 now... I do remember the nasty wild bees that took over the hive and attacked you... and I remember burning the old rotten hives years later, which was very fun/cool - instant 15' blue flames!)... ahem. Sorry. Got off track

Anyhow. We've had chickens off and on for, well, forever. Currently we have ducks for the first time and we like them. Though they're pretty gross/messy.... We just gave away our 4 hens & rooster (ok, so we kept the extra rooster... he's a good crower last night. We've always orderd chicks and never, ever, ever bought adult birds, and we've nver had problems with disease either. Generally, we order a straight run (25 unsexed birds) and butcher the extras

Housing for chickens can be surprisngly basic/simple, and we've become huge fans of "portable electric fencing" over the past 2 or 3 yrs now - its super easy to put up/take down/move around, and it keeps the buggers in amazingly well!!!

[1jooj]

Farmers old lady's suggestion is another good one if you really want bees on your property. I grew up on a farm and my parents allowed a beekeeper to use their land for a few of his hives. He came periodically to do the work on them and at the end of the season, my parents got honey. Depending on the size of your property, this could be a good option, and you might find someone who'd work with you to teach you the basics.

[PreggieUBA2C]

We live on our friends' farm with them and their livestock.

This month we will be building our first coop, and it will cost us very little because we are reclaiming lumber from our renovation projects and we have loads of various types of hardware we've collected over the past few years. I really like the hardware store and I buy hardware for a few options for every project because we're out of town and really can't take trips in for just hinges or L-brackets.

Our friends 'harvest' old dryer drums from the dump for their chickens to lay eggs in, and then they just fill them with straw and pile them up along the barn wall. They keep 100 chickens and have done this for 9 years this way. The drums work wonderfully for them.

If you are patient and have access to discarded things, you can build a coop for the cost of your time and transportation.

[ctrygirlatheart]

Thanks for all the feedback, chickens certainly sound like the way to go, been wanting them since I was a teenager anyways. Hopefully my landlord is as enthusiastic as I am!