would this be asking too much? - Page 2

[Emmeline II]

My nephew lives with his grandmother to attend a prep school (the type of school where diplomats and such from NYC board their children and sailing is an after school activity). This grandmother has a $1.5 million home overlooking the beach...and she still has to explain to my nephew that they don't have the resources to do what a lot of his friends can do .

I don't think you would get anywhere talking to the school about separating the boys into different classes, but if he is rude and hostile to students or other parents you could bring that up to the teacher.

[CarrieMF]

It's not about me, it's about my child. I teach him every day how to get along with others and resolve differances,

I disagree. It is YOUR issue that you're projecting onto your child & making it an issue for him. You may be teaching your son how to get along with others & resolve differences BUT you're not acting in the same manner as you're trying to teach him.

Is your gut instinct that he's not a safe person for your son to be around, or is it that he's someone you just wouldn't normally associate with?

IMO it makes a difference in whether I'd say anything about placement or not. I haven't seen you write anything about the father that would, imo, justify asking for the kids to be separated. Even if the dad is an arrogant jerk you could be keeping your child away from someone who could be a good friend. If there were specific instances between the CHILDREN then I'd ask for special placement, but this is between the adults.

[LynnS6]

Originally Posted by ollyoxenfree

I wish your mom was our principal! Almost every school my dc have attended has sent home a note in the spring, asking that parents refrain from making placement requests and noting that such requests will only be granted in extreme circumstances.

Ah.... you just have to know how to work the system. I've gotten great placements for ds by describing the qualities of the teacher that he would do best with. "Ds would do best in a quiet, structured classroom, with a teacher who will challenge him, even though he is quiet." If you're specific enough, you can describe the one or two teachers who would fit your child best. That's not making a teacher request, it's describing how our children learn and who would be a good fit for them.

For kids, I agree that being vague as to "Ds and so-and-so might do better in different classrooms." will work best. I'm going to do that for dd. We have a neighbor girl who is fine, but I know that if she and dd are in the same class, I'm going to hear about conflicts all year.

[Irishmommy]

Originally Posted by LynnS6

Ah.... you just have to know how to work the system. I've gotten great placements for ds by describing the qualities of the teacher that he would do best with. "Ds would do best in a quiet, structured classroom, with a teacher who will challenge him, even though he is quiet." If you're specific enough, you can describe the one or two teachers who would fit your child best. That's not making a teacher request, it's describing how our children learn and who would be a good fit for them.

I did that when dd1 was in grade 5, to avoid a particular grade 6 teacher. And she got the lousy awful teacher. I was in there at least once a week complaining, as every issue I knew would happen, did. I think the principal was VERY sorry he didn't honour my request.

[zebra15]

My thoughts may be different than the other posters so take them as you wish. While the boys may or may not be in the same classroom what happens at lunch, recess, assembly time? Before school and after school? What happens in 2nd grade etc... Really you are going to put a heck of alot of energy into avoiding this one kid and his parent. Surely there is going to be a class field trip, what if the kids are in the same work group for something on the trip? Parents volunteer at the school, sometimes they can be sent to another classroom to help out. Have you ever thought of that?

What happens when it comes time to sign up for little league? What if your ds wants to join a school club? Will everything be based on what this ONE KID does? That hardly sounds fair.

I honestly don't think you are being realistic. Let the classroom assignments happens as they may and then see what happens. If your ds gets invited to a bday party there is nothing that says he needs to go. There is nothing that says your ds and this child have to be best friends but there is no way you can spend the next X# of years avoiding the child and his family.

[zebra15]

Originally Posted by Irishmommy

I did that when dd1 was in grade 5, to avoid a particular grade 6 teacher. And she got the lousy awful teacher. I was in there at least once a week complaining, as every issue I knew would happen, did. I think the principal was VERY sorry he didn't honour my request.

SS that happened to your DD for one grade. That is different, seem my 'opinion' above. hugs to you and your dd.

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by CarrieMF

Is your gut instinct that he's not a safe person for your son to be around, or is it that he's someone you just wouldn't normally associate with?

Even if a parent of a child in your class isn't a safe person, how does that effect your kid?

I don't get it, and the more I think about it, the more off it seems to me.

I was abused and neglected as a child. My father is not a safe person. Should other parents have asked to make sure I wasn't in their child's class?

[mommia]

Originally Posted by kittykat2481

I hope I didn't come off harsh or rude. I truly didn't mean to. I think if he really gives you the heebie jeebies, the best you can do is cross your fingers they're in different classes, and if that doesn't work out volunteer as much or more than him whenever you can so you're always there when he is.

Thanks Kat, you didn't! I really appreciate that though! Actually you made me feel a little better. I just may cross my fingers, and wish on stars;-) and hope that it works out that they're not in the same class. I don't want to come off as asking for too much, especially when I could really need something in the future and I already requested a teacher I really want him to have and don't want to push my luck. I volunteer a lot so that's not a problem, I truly want to be there anyways: ). He honestly does give me the heebie jeebies...

[mommia]

Originally Posted by Linda on the move

Even if a parent of a child in your class isn't a safe person, how does that effect your kid?

I don't get it, and the more I think about it, the more off it seems to me.

I was abused and neglected as a child. My father is not a safe person. Should other parents have asked to make sure I wasn't in their child's class?

Oh my gosh I'm so sorry to hear that Linda. No of course no one should have made sure you weren't in their class... but your Dad most likely wasn't volunteering and driving children from your class, renting limos and going alone with bunches of little boys? That's the differance.

[mommia]

Originally Posted by zebra15

My thoughts may be different than the other posters so take them as you wish. While the boys may or may not be in the same classroom what happens at lunch, recess, assembly time? Before school and after school? What happens in 2nd grade etc... Really you are going to put a heck of alot of energy into avoiding this one kid and his parent. Surely there is going to be a class field trip, what if the kids are in the same work group for something on the trip? Parents volunteer at the school, sometimes they can be sent to another classroom to help out. Have you ever thought of that?

What happens when it comes time to sign up for little league? What if your ds wants to join a school club? Will everything be based on what this ONE KID does? That hardly sounds fair.

I honestly don't think you are being realistic. Let the classroom assignments happens as they may and then see what happens. If your ds gets invited to a bday party there is nothing that says he needs to go. There is nothing that says your ds and this child have to be best friends but there is no way you can spend the next X# of years avoiding the child and his family.

I'm not trying to avoid the child, it's the dad. And we live in a big city and no where near them so the little league stuff is irrelevant. Of course I would never dream of in a million years letting ds go to one of his parties. To be honest at this school you're with the class your child is in period, I volunteer there all the time. And if the Dad is involved, yes we will avoid it, unless my dh or I are there. Like I said I have to trust my instincts. God gave kids parents for many reasons number one is to keep them safe and if something doesn't feel right we will do what we need to. If I see what happens and what happens is something bad and I swallowed my instincts I could never forgive myself. I appreciate your input, but respectfully disagree.

[mommia]

Originally Posted by Irishmommy

I did that when dd1 was in grade 5, to avoid a particular grade 6 teacher. And she got the lousy awful teacher. I was in there at least once a week complaining, as every issue I knew would happen, did. I think the principal was VERY sorry he didn't honour my request.

My mom did that too and it worked well most years except one where all the teachers were not the best option and she picked the one who seemed best, and she was the least of all the evils, it was still a lousy year. I'm so sorry that happened to your daughter... Hope she got a great teacher this year

[mommia]

Originally Posted by LynnS6

Ah.... you just have to know how to work the system. I've gotten great placements for ds by describing the qualities of the teacher that he would do best with. "Ds would do best in a quiet, structured classroom, with a teacher who will challenge him, even though he is quiet." If you're specific enough, you can describe the one or two teachers who would fit your child best. That's not making a teacher request, it's describing how our children learn and who would be a good fit for them.

For kids, I agree that being vague as to "Ds and so-and-so might do better in different classrooms." will work best. I'm going to do that for dd. We have a neighbor girl who is fine, but I know that if she and dd are in the same class, I'm going to hear about conflicts all year.

Our neighbor did that too as otherwise it was constant problems with the 2 girls in the same class the year before. The school honored her request and the next year was better for both girls then. I like your wording and may go that way... Thanks!

[mommia]

Originally Posted by CarrieMF

I disagree. It is YOUR issue that you're projecting onto your child & making it an issue for him. You may be teaching your son how to get along with others & resolve differences BUT you're not acting in the same manner as you're trying to teach him.

Is your gut instinct that he's not a safe person for your son to be around, or is it that he's someone you just wouldn't normally associate with?

IMO it makes a difference in whether I'd say anything about placement or not. I haven't seen you write anything about the father that would, imo, justify asking for the kids to be separated. Even if the dad is an arrogant jerk you could be keeping your child away from someone who could be a good friend. If there were specific instances between the CHILDREN then I'd ask for special placement, but this is between the adults.

It's actually nothing "between the adults" I've never spoken to him ever, it's a gut feeling from what I've observed. I'm not trying to keep him away from someone I normally wouldn't associate with I'm a very open and friendly person. Iif he was simply an arrogant jerk and the child were a nice boy it could certainly be a strictly at school friend.

[mommia]

Originally Posted by ollyoxenfree

It's fairly common to ask for two children to be separated if there are serious issues like bullying. I don't think I've ever heard of separation of a student and the parent of another student. You would have a much harder time explaining your concerns to the administration. They are unlikely to separate students because one family doesn't like or doesn't approve of another - which is what it seems like from the information you've given. Maybe it's more serious than that, though - I don't want to minimize your concerns. What is "rude"? I suppose if the father exhibits bullying behaviour, not just poor manners, you could make a case to the principal.

How serious is the father's behaviour - does it amount to bullying? How often is he in the classroom? If it's a problem, then the teachers and principal should already be limiting his involvement in the classroom.

If your child's teacher is sympathetic, you could talk to him/her and ask for a recommendation to place your child in a different class next year. Organizing student placement is a headache though, because there are always special requests and special circumstances. The school is trying to balance classes - girls/boys, high achievers/slow learners, special needs, split grades....Personality conflicts will be considered, but usually only severe cases. If you don't give a good reason, they may not try to grant your request.

ETA: Cross-posted with you, but I'm still not sure what you are worried about. Perhaps you could clarify what is making your hair stand on end? Over-indulgence isn't great to be around, but I think the school might just suggest you talk to your own child about it, rather than trying to avoid the situation.

It's not bullying. It's a gut instinct, hair standing up on the back of my neck thing. And in the past the few times that that has happened I've been dead on... I definitely don't envy the administrators and staff balancing the class ratios, I totally understand that and don't want to make things difficult... it's so hard raising kids isn't it.... I just want to do what's right by my child.

[mommia]

Originally Posted by kittykat2481

To the bolded: I think that is the key. As soon as you said that I did get a vision of a man alone in a limo with a bunch of 5 year old boys. Maybe that wasn't the case though? But I can see how that would put the boys in a vulnerable situation.

That was exactly the case...and it gives me the creeps just that alone... My parents were very good parents and took very good care of me, but were too trusting and feel sich about it now realizing the situations I was in. Thankfully even as a kid I trusted my own instincts and got the hell out of Dodge so to speak when the hair on the back of my neck stood up and they were always there to get me when I called. At the time I couldn't put it into words I just got a bad feeling, but I never said that to my parents...and in every case except one it came out later that there was something bad, really bad. And the one who knows but it could have been also.

[mommia]

Originally Posted by Evan&Anna's_Mom

If he makes you uncomfortable in a "he might do something to harm a child" sort of way, I'm wondering if you shouldn't be more proactive about the whole situation. Sure, you could maybe get your child away from him, but where does that leave the other children? Maybe you could suggest a better way of screening and training volunteers in general in hopes of preventing anything happening to any child? Maybe suggest a policy to require background checks, some sort of observation requirement and some sort of feedback system for all volunteers?

That's a good idea, but with the school budget the way it is would I'm sure be a moot point. But if they at least did something, anything and made it known schoolwide it may discourage anyone who didn't have good intentions from volunteering. It's not something specific where I feel I can say to the school that I feel the children are in danger, if it were I'd be all over it I care very much about not only my child but ALL children: ). It's a gut feeling that's hard to put into words, but, my instincts are usually correct from past experience ....

[mommia]

Originally Posted by Emmeline II

My nephew lives with his grandmother to attend a prep school (the type of school where diplomats and such from NYC board their children and sailing is an after school activity). This grandmother has a $1.5 million home overlooking the beach...and she still has to explain to my nephew that they don't have the resources to do what a lot of his friends can do .

I don't think you would get anywhere talking to the school about separating the boys into different classes, but if he is rude and hostile to students or other parents you could bring that up to the teacher.

Wow....it's crazy how over the top spoiled some kids are. Those people aren't doing their kids any favors.

That's a thought, talking to the teacher, if luck is not on our side and they're in the same class. It's just more than that though, it's the bad feeling I just can't shake.... I'm going to sleep on it and thankfully can do so for a few more nights before it's down to the wire and too late to speak up if I decide to. Nothing in life is easy is it?

[mommia]

Originally Posted by Linda on the move

It's one thing to request that your child not be in his car for a field trip, it's another to request that you child not be in the same room as his child.

The school really and truly cannot separate all the kids of all the parents who don't like each other. Sadly, a lot of the parents don't like each other. (My kids are in middle school and some parents are annoyed at other parents about things that happened in K).

RSVP "no" to the birthday party (if your child is invited). No matter what class your child is in, if you knew all the parents, you wouldn't like some of them.

Of course I would never allow him to ride in his car or go to a birthday party. If it was just a matter of not liking the guy I could live with that. I typically get along well with everyone whether they're my favorite person or not I can usually find some common ground. It's the gut instinct that something is not right. And if I just didn't like him I would never in a million years expect that they be seperated on those grounds: ).

[mommia]

Originally Posted by ollyoxenfree

I wish your mom was our principal! Almost every school my dc have attended has sent home a note in the spring, asking that parents refrain from making placement requests and noting that such requests will only be granted in extreme circumstances.

It doesn't stop parents from trying every year. I just know a lot of parents who have been left unsatisfied because they didn't get what they wanted for their kids.

And definitely, a vague request like "I don't approve of that parent" wouldn't be enough.

Think about it - if that dad said he didn't want his son in the same class as the OP's son because they DON'T have lavish birthday celebrations - I doubt anyone would expect that the request would be granted.

Nothing to do with lavish birthday parties, that doesn't matter at all to me it's something else all together I didn't mean for that to be the issue...sorry if it came off that way. It's a guy alone in a limo with all these helpless little boys. No I wouldn't put my ds in that situation BUT It's a bad feeling a gut feeling, and it's not just from that. And I agree wording a request that way would get me nowhere, I definitely won't word it that way, thanks.

That stinks that your school is so uncooperative when these things (the wrong teacher, someone who bullies them etc etc) have a huge affect on children.

[mommia]

Originally Posted by SunshineJ

My mom was an elementary principal for years, and these types of requests are VERY common! Don't mention the dad, just simply submit a brief request in writing asking that your child and the other child not be placed in the same class together. That's all you need to do. If a parent goes to the trouble to make such a request the school will generally assume there's a good reason and try to honor it. No one in the school wants two kids who are mortal enemies in the same class causing a ruckus all year when it can easily be avoided by such a request, and it will probably be assumed that's the case here. I've never seen a school where this type of thing would even garner a blip on the radar.

Your mom sounds like an amazing principal, those kids and parents are lucky to have her. Your post makes me feel much better, and that is so true that typically there is a very good reason behind the request and it's better to avoid problems. What I put in bold from your post made me feel so much better, thank you so much.