or Connect
Mothering › Mothering Forums › Childhood and Beyond › Education › Learning at School › would this be asking too much?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

would this be asking too much? - Page 5

post #81 of 109
I don't think that "instincts" are necessarily always right. And honestly, I don't think that jealousy has to be the reason.

I know people who absolutely in their heart "know" that all gay people want to molest their children. If they are walking down the street, and they see a young black man walking down from the opposite in, they will have their hairs stand up and have a "fear" adrenaline rush. If you ask them could they be stereotyping, no--they will say it's an individual gut reaction. And I totally 100 percent believe them, that they do indeed feel it as "instinct". It genuinely is, for them. However, in 99.9 percent of cases, their instinct is wrong.

While I do think that it's important to STOP and LISTEN to our instincts, I don't think that it is wise or healthy to be *ruled* by them. It is dangerous and untrue to say that instincts are *always* right. They are not. Sometimes we need to evaluate why we are having this reaction. Is it, as hard as it is to admit, prejudice? Something from our past that we are projecting? Do we feel that we have to really make someone "bad" in order to feel okay about disliking them or being turned off by them? Do we feel a natural "ick" oil-and-water reaction to someone, and then take that reaction and project "it must be because he wants to molest children in the back of his limo" onto it?

Honestly, as a total blind stranger reading words over the internet, it sounds like the latter to me, in the OPs case. Just because you have a reactive ew to someone doesn't mean they're a predator. Sometimes it just means that you really really REALLY really REALLY do not connect with them. When I am around people I actively dislike (not too many of them out there) I do get goosebumps and hackles raised. I might even get little shakes. But I have been through enough high adrenaline situations (mostly due to volunteer and career jobs I've had) to know that FOR ME this is how I react to an adrenaline surge. It's the same for me if I'm first on the scene at a bad car wreck, if I feel that kick in as I have to run to protect my child from danger, when my mom has an episode, and when someone is around that rubs me the wrong way.

So. Just things to think about. I do think a request to make sure that your kid isn't in a class with another kid because you can't stand the other parent is a bit over the top. You feel what you feel though, you might as well own it, and ask for it. Were it me, I'd probably be blunt. "I feel uncomfortable around Mr. X, I don't like him, and this year I backed off on participating because I feel so strongly I'd rather not be in the same place as him." Just so they know how strong your feelings are. The worst thing that could happen is that they'd say no AND your kid would be randomly assigned to that child's class. At best, the administration will want to know personality conflicts and balance out class volunteer participation (if you're both super active, it'd be nice to have one of you in each class, so that you're not stacking the deck in one class anyway). And since it sounds like you prefer to drive for field trips anyway, then that problem is solved.
post #82 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommia View Post
And come on a stretch hummer for a kindergarteners birthday? What does he plan to do for the kids 16th? Fly him to Vegas? To us that's too much too soon and a bad influence. It's more than that. There will always be crummy people who think they are big shots out there and he is, however ordinairily you can choose not to have your child have play dates etc with them and not be influenced by those parents...but because he's involved at school it's automatic that the kids are around him.
Flying a 16 year old to Vegas on their birthday is bad???

Quote:
Originally Posted by mommia View Post
Wow....it's crazy how over the top spoiled some kids are. Those people aren't doing their kids any favors.
I don't understand why a child who takes sailing lessons, or any other lessons is considered spoiled. Exposing a child to a wide range of activites is not a disservice.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Drummer's Wife View Post
Thank you! After re-reading some of the responses, I still thought maybe I was crazy.

If the biggest concern a parent has is that a peer's father can afford to rent a limo - then count yourself lucky, for now. There will be way more pressing issues throughout your child's school career and life that will warrant an uproar or meeting with admin. I get having an uneasy feeling about someone else - except in this case, the OP doesn't even know this other parent - she hasn't spoken a word to him. It sounds like a lot of misguided preconceived ideas, and most likely nothing to truly be concerned about. Bullying, racism, etc., - yeah, I can then see requesting to have two students be in separate classes - but come on, this just seems really over the top, to me.

I guess I just can't imagine judging someone else basically based on a freakin' limo filled with kindergarten kids. I don't get it.


What if this man were a single father. Should his son NOT have spend the night parties because a "mom" is not around.


Mommia, are you worried about ALL the children at the school, or just YOUR child. If you are concerned about all the children at the school, I would suggest that you make an anonymous call or email to child services. If you are only concerned about your child (without a valid reason), you don't have substantive reasons to approach school administrators.
post #83 of 109
Kind of off topic, but this thread really got me thinking..My DH & I never volunteer at the school, mainly because we have a 4 yr old at home and he works 3rd shift, I work mids so we have to cordinate our time to make sure all 3 kids get supervision and the attention they need. We are a "low income" family we don't spend lavishly because we don't have it to spend! We don't have a car or anything "normal" people have..but we have food and clothes and a roof over our heads. We live in a very "high income" area. Most folks here are doctors/lawyers/Accountants and have more money than we could ever dream of. We moved here because a family member rented this place to us for a really good price.

Now I have to wonder if other parents would NOT want our kids in their class because we don't have the best of everything? Would they think we are crazy or call social services because my kids get free lunches? I am sure We look really funny walking to the local giant eagle carrying backpacks to buy food for the week! (we have seen other parents from the school there at various times) My husband shaves his head bald, has multiple-piercings and tatoos..Just because he looks different then the rest of this community is that a sole reason for the folks here to not want our kids to interact with theirs? Or would people think HE is a pedophile? or make the hairs on the back of their necks stand up? Without ever taking the time to speak to someone, we all make pre-judments. Its a sad reality of our society.

But in the event that we did volunteer for something or did something really special (like rent a limo for 1 of our kids birthday's) I would be livid if I was told other parents did not want their child in the same class..It's 1 thing to trust your instincts, and even pre-judge that someone just rubs you the wrong way but there are accusations being thrown around that are completely unfounded.

The father in this case may have just thought it would be really cool to have a limo as part of the celebration, OR even had a friend/family member who drives this particular limo and the friend volunteered to do it as part of their present to the kid. You just don't know.
post #84 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigerchild View Post
I don't think that "instincts" are necessarily always right. And honestly, I don't think that jealousy has to be the reason.

I know people who absolutely in their heart "know" that all gay people want to molest their children. If they are walking down the street, and they see a young black man walking down from the opposite in, they will have their hairs stand up and have a "fear" adrenaline rush. If you ask them could they be stereotyping, no--they will say it's an individual gut reaction. And I totally 100 percent believe them, that they do indeed feel it as "instinct". It genuinely is, for them. However, in 99.9 percent of cases, their instinct is wrong.

While I do think that it's important to STOP and LISTEN to our instincts, I don't think that it is wise or healthy to be *ruled* by them. It is dangerous and untrue to say that instincts are *always* right. They are not. Sometimes we need to evaluate why we are having this reaction. Is it, as hard as it is to admit, prejudice? Something from our past that we are projecting? Do we feel that we have to really make someone "bad" in order to feel okay about disliking them or being turned off by them? Do we feel a natural "ick" oil-and-water reaction to someone, and then take that reaction and project "it must be because he wants to molest children in the back of his limo" onto it?.
Yes, absolutely. Very well said.
post #85 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by zinemama View Post
I've read this whole thread and I still don't get it.
Well, my SIL was creeped out by the Imagination Movers* until she found out they have kids, so some people just don't get men having an interest in children's activities at all.

(*It was really weird because there aren't even any kids on the show. If someone wanted to entertain kids for icky reasons, you'd think they'd go for a job where they'd be working with kids...)
post #86 of 109
Oh, you'd be volunteering too? Then definitely tell the school that you don't like the dad and would find it hard to work with him. That's a perfectly reasonable request and one that only foolish schools would disregard.
post #87 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by velochic View Post
I just have to wonder what your reaction would be (your gut instinct) if a mom at the school, who was an over-the-top volunteer, supermom, picked up a group of little girls in a stretch limo for a princess birthday party. Would you think of her as a pedophile? I think that (in general) it's really sad that the idea of a man with a bunch of young boys automatically makes people think dirty thoughts.

However, I totally agree with going with your gut instinct. Nature gave mothers hairs on the back of our necks for a reason. But I would be very careful to evaluate your feelings (perhaps some jealousy that they did something REALLY cool and perhaps out of many people's financial league) before you pursue talking to the administration. They are likely going to want to know why you don't want you child to be with this boy, and if you haven't even talked to this parent to get to know him at all, you're going to be making, what to them, will be some VERY groundless accusations.

Schools don't just allow volunteers without some background checks. This guy has passed their test, obviously. Statistically, he's probably a sound guy. And if he is, and you make accusations, you could end up with at a minimum, egg on your face, and worse, a lawsuit.

I would say your best course of action is to pursue establishing school rules that volunteers are never alone with the kids (if it's not already there) and otherwise, just don't let your kid hang out with his after school hours.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda on the move View Post
You don't know this man AT ALL and you want to hint to the school staff that you think he is a child molestor. You could ruin his life, his kids' lives, his marriage, etc.

You are seriously playing with fire with other people's lives. Try to image what would happen to your family *if someone who didn't even know you* starting hinting to people that your husband was a child molester.
I have to agree with both of these posts.

I think that asking the school not to let your child be in the same class, when you don't really *IMO* have a valid reason, could make things harder on you in the long run in future dealings with the school. I have read this thread twice and I just can't find a valid reason for the kids not to be in the same class together. I would be afraid that the school might not value your input or label you as a problem parent for future issues. Just my two cents.
post #88 of 109
i have also just read and reread the thread, and while i agree that a limo for a kindy is over the top. I can not say that it would fly red flags for me, and he was not in the limo alone, he had a bunch of other children in there to right?

i may be off, but i think, if he were alone in the car with a child other than his own...maybe....

please consider what one of the posters said, you could with accusations like this (yes, even "my hairs on the head stand up") that you are very very sure.

did i read right that you have never had a conversation with him?

i would also consider that your child may very well spend the next 8 years with this child, and to blow off the children, his child and your child because of your neck hairs.....seems to much for me (or maybe not enough for me)
post #89 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigerchild View Post
I don't think that "instincts" are necessarily always right. And honestly, I don't think that jealousy has to be the reason.

I know people who absolutely in their heart "know" that all gay people want to molest their children. If they are walking down the street, and they see a young black man walking down from the opposite in, they will have their hairs stand up and have a "fear" adrenaline rush. If you ask them could they be stereotyping, no--they will say it's an individual gut reaction. And I totally 100 percent believe them, that they do indeed feel it as "instinct". It genuinely is, for them. However, in 99.9 percent of cases, their instinct is wrong.

While I do think that it's important to STOP and LISTEN to our instincts, I don't think that it is wise or healthy to be *ruled* by them. It is dangerous and untrue to say that instincts are *always* right. They are not. Sometimes we need to evaluate why we are having this reaction. Is it, as hard as it is to admit, prejudice? Something from our past that we are projecting? Do we feel that we have to really make someone "bad" in order to feel okay about disliking them or being turned off by them? .
Tigerchild, I just want to mention that I always find your posts so insightful and articulate.

I have listened to Oprah et al. saying "trust your gut" for years, and it may work wonderfully for others, but my "gut" is a set of learned reactions that are not always very healthy. I've had to replace my gut reactions (fear when there is no threat, unwarranted distrust, etc) with new, healthier reactions.

I don't really have any advice about how to move forward with your situation, OP, but just reiterating that the hair that goes up doesn't necessarily mean anything nefarious is going on.
post #90 of 109
I think you need to go and talk to the man. I've had negative impressions of people that have proven inaccurate when I've gotten to know them.

As for going with your gut instincts, I'm with other posters that those instincts are often informed by biases we may consciously or unconsciously hold. You've noted that you don't like his extreme ways, and it's easy to continue to add to our impressions to reinforce our initial reaction - look, he's so overly involved with his kid, that's just weird and there must be something up with him... This is a very human reaction.

There's an author named Sheena Iyengar who has a new book out, called The Art of Choosing. I heard her interviewed recently and she speaks to your gut telling you how you feel - it's not more rational or reasoned than other approaches to assessment. And it's human nature to remember when we were right than when we were wrong, so it reinforces our belief.

http://www.unsv.com/voanews/english/...7/printer.html

Quote:
Indeed choice is so complex, says Iyengar, that doing it well takes both time and effort. You have to consult your gut, which tells you how you feel. Then you have to engage your reasoned analysis, which tells you all those pros and cons." It also pays to consult others, to get more information and to compensate for your own biases. "Only then can you really make a quote, 'informed choice.'"
Seems apropos .

I agree with another PP that talking to the teacher/principal about such a poorly quantified concern may cost you more than it gains you, and could certainly cause harm to a man who might just be a loving dad with a flexible work schedule.
post #91 of 109
Thread Starter 
I just want to state that I have ZERO intentions of accusing, labeling, hinting or saying anything specifically directly or indirectly about this man, I never said that I was going to say that...I would not do that without having a very good reason to. I did not state here or anywhere that I thought that he did something or that I was going to say that I thought he did.

My feelings are not based on any type of judgement of how he looks or does not look, they are based on a gut feeling period. I agree that there are people whose gut reaction is based on a prejudice or other misnotion and that is sad, but that is not the type of person that I am. This is not a feeling that I get often and while I agree that not all gut feelings are correct I do believe in paying attention to mine, they are not something that I get often. I've never regreted listening to my instincts and have never reacted in such a way that caused any harm by doing so. I have however wished that I would have acted on them before such as having a feeling that I should turn off a street and then minutes later after dismissing the feeling and staying on the same street being in a car accident. I am not a rash person who runs off and makes accusations or overreacts. I repeat that I have no intention of making any insinuations about this man in any way shape or form unless something in the future seriously gives me reason to. As far as how I am going to react to this gut feeling remains to be seen I will give it some more time and consideration and pay close attention.

For the record I did not mean the over the top spoiled comment to be about sailing lessons (or any other type of lessons for that matter), that's great if that's something they are able to do for their children. I meant it about other kids doing/having so much that a child living in a million dollar house feels deprived because their friends are able to afford so much more. There is more to life than material things. And yes there is such a thing as too much...


BTW Joensally that sounds like a great book, I really like that quote that you included in your post above.
post #92 of 109
perhaps the OP is not able to articulate what it is that sends her radars up.

however i will respect her instincts.

i am not sure if i would request your child be in a different class due to this fact. during field trips all classrooms go together. so essentially even if you put your child in a different class then there is a chance there still could be interaction with your child.

i personally would not make a request to the principal. we have had so many requests in our school for different kinds of reasons that the principal no longer takes those kinds of requests.

in our school the only parents allowed to drive or do yard duty or be in any kind of situation alone with kids have to have their background check done. this is a strict school policy.
post #93 of 109
Some of the comments on this thread have really angered and saddened me.

To read so many negativity into the actions of a father--- volunteering in class, giving his son a birthday party...

OP, I would kindly suggest you at least talk to the man (I don't understand how you *know* he is rude if you have never even talked to him) before you write him off as a human being. If you seriously have never had a "feeling" that was wrong, you are the first person that is true for.
post #94 of 109
I think you need to rethink about what and why your instincts are saying this about someone you have never spoke to. How is he rude?

Unfortunately the media teaches to be judgement of men and dads. They are suppose to be uninvolved. When they are involved the are held with "suspicion". Your statement about him being "alone" with the boys says a lot about you and maybe some bias you have against dads. Unconscious thoughts driven by fear more than reality

In this situation, you are better to keep your enemy's closer. Get to know the guy. There maybe more to him. Maybe you will validate your feelings. Or find out you misjudged him.

Your child was not in the Limo, so how do you know he was the only adult?

Is there a mom? Is there another Dad?
post #95 of 109
OP, your position is confusing to follow. First you say:

Quote:
Originally Posted by mommia View Post
OMG. I'm so glad you posted that I will be talking to the school! You cannot be too careful and if something happened to any of the kids I would be sich . All very good advice!!! Thanks so much for posting this!!! Hopefully this post will protect not just kids at this school but others of children of parents who are reading this. I'm not overreacting and once the damage has been done as it was with this "storyteller" at your school it cannot be undone, it's too late. THose poor kids and parents... My heart goes out to them.

I will definitely trust my instincts, thank you...
Now you assert:

Quote:
Originally Posted by mommia View Post
I just want to state that I have ZERO intentions of accusing, labeling, hinting or saying anything specifically directly or indirectly about this man, I never said that I was going to say that...I would not do that without having a very good reason to. I did not state here or anywhere that I thought that he did something or that I was going to say that I thought he did.
So what exactly are you going to be talking to the school about?
post #96 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by zinemama View Post



So what exactly are you going to be talking to the school about?
"Hi, Principal. Bobby's dad gives me the creeps because he can afford a limo and has plenty of free time to volunteer at the school. Please make sure my child never comes in contact with Bobby, or his dad, because even though I've never spoken a word to him, my gut says they are bad news."

post #97 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drummer's Wife View Post
"Hi, Principal. Bobby's dad gives me the creeps because he can afford a limo and has plenty of free time to volunteer at the school. Please make sure my child never comes in contact with Bobby, or his dad, because even though I've never spoken a word to him, my gut says they are bad news."

post #98 of 109
Thread Starter 
Argh had a post going and session timed out...

Anyways short and unfortunately not as well written version...

There have been other dads who have volunteered who I felt great about. I know lots of awesome dads....it's not that he is a dad. There are lots of dads I fell fine about, some I feel great about, some I don't have any feeling either way about, and a very few I don't care for and then there's getting a bad feeling. I am not saying that it has to be that he molested someone, or that he will... that would not be the only reason to have a bad feeling about someone for goodness sake. I said I have no intention of going to the school and hinting at that or even mentioning him at all unless there is a real reason to. All I was ever posting about is requesting that he be in a seperate classroom from the other child period.

I appreciate the differant points of view and as a couple of posters kindly suggested I do not certainly want to request seperation of the two kids and then in the future need something more pressing like a bullying situation directly with another child or a mean teacher which certainly would be a day to day concern in that that person would be there all day. I also would not want to be the straw that breaks the camels back and makes it that no one can make requests. Thanks to those posters who raised this issue.

There may be other ways of dealing with this and there is of course a chance that it will not be an issue as the placement may not end up that way anyways. And if they are in the same class I will deal with it as needed. If I have a REAL reason to suspect something I will certainly deal with it, I will not jump to conclusions, and anything that does not agree with our values can certainly be put up as an example of how not to act, just as if someone is rude in line at the store this can be used as an example of how others should be treated politely and with respect. As long as it's just field trips that he's around for, he'll be riding in my car so that's not an issue.


zinemama I understand your confusion and can clear it up what I AM going to talk to the school about is making sure that there ARE checks and balances in the volunteer protocal. THAT IS IT, nothing about this man, no mention of anyone, no accusation, no mention of a bad feeling just as I stated in my post that you referenced. My reaction that you also quoted was a reaction to the original post from another poster about something that happened at her school. I am NOT saying that THIS man did this or would do that . What my reaction was is that her story is a reminder to us all that while it's so nice to believe that everyone has good intentions it is naive to believe that EVERYONE is good. When I get a bad feeling I trust myself because I am not biased or jealous or judging based on appearance or any of the other negative things that anyone insinuated. It's rare that I get this feeling. I do believe that most people are decent.


To be honest at this point I'm a bit burned out on discussing this and need to take a step back and decide for myself how I want to proceed. I really appreciate all of your comments insight & advice and wish you all the best.
post #99 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommia View Post
For the record I did not mean the over the top spoiled comment to be about sailing lessons (or any other type of lessons for that matter), that's great if that's something they are able to do for their children. I meant it about other kids doing/having so much that a child living in a million dollar house feels deprived because their friends are able to afford so much more. There is more to life than material things. And yes there is such a thing as too much...
I think my point was that children at any level of income could possibly feel "deprived" if their friends have something they do not.
post #100 of 109
Wow. I'm a little disappointed at how this thread has turned against the OP. I think it's pretty clear that she has no intention of announcing to the school that she believes this man is a pedophile. She doesn't plan on ruining his life. She just doesn't get a good feeling about him and wants her DC to be safe. I don't think there is anything wrong with that. I think you are smart to listen to your instincts, OP.

I, personally, would not ask for him to be put in a different class. It's not going to ensure that your DC never has contact with this man and may give you a false sense of security. If they end up in the same class, I would make a point to volunteer whenever you believe this man will be there. It will give you a chance to get to know him. You will be able to see how he interacts with other students and the teacher and also see what the volunteers are responsible for in that class. In the meantime, make sure you talk to your son about his personal safety, inappropriate touching, etc. In Protecting the Gift, there is a nice little list of what to include when you have these talks with your child. Every child needs this information anyway.

I think you are very smart to honor your feelings. Only you have met him, only you know what it is that makes him icky to you- although it may be subconscious, you know. Just by being aware of how this guy makes you feel is a good first step to protecting your child.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Learning at School
Mothering › Mothering Forums › Childhood and Beyond › Education › Learning at School › would this be asking too much?