need help with appropriate response for damaged library book

[jrabbit]

We have been having an ongoing problem at our house of disrespecting library books. We have a routine of "how" to keep track of them. We have rules about them not being taken outside. But the problem is that those rules and procedures are not being followed.

I've been sick for 2 weeks, and that doesn't help.

After one hour of scouring the house for a missing book, they found it. It had been chewed by our pet rabbit. No one will fess up about "who" picked it up off the floor (because that's obviously what happened). I go through the house every night, and at least once a day, checking the floor for books & papers. I've been very diligent for the past 3-4 weeks, in spite of being sick. I suppose that while I was at my worst-sick, I might have missed some, and I guess that's when this happened.

But now, I'm struggling with an appropriate consequence. I told them that there would be no library books this week, if the book was not found. OK, so they found it. Well, now what?? I am reading the book "Unconditional Parenting" right now, and I'm inclined to say that "no books" just isn't reasonable. The child who checked it out is 6 years old, and she doesn't have enough money to pay for it. The 10 year old is partly responsible, I think, but is it really fair to make her pay for it, either? (she has lost her wallet with $65 in it, but that's a WHOLE 'NOTHER issue altogether)

We're going to the library today, and I'm going to let them both check out books like usual. Or should I? I'm actually going to renew the damaged book because we cannot afford to pay for it til payday.

ack.
--janis

[Honey693]

If my kids were losing/damaging library books there would be a period of time (I don't know how long) without books. We'd still go to the library, they could read there, but they would not be taking books home until they showed me somehow they are responsible enough to take care of them. The whole reason we go to the library is b/c I think books are really expensive so if I had to pay for them anyway I'd be so upset.

[jrabbit]

unfortunately, going to the library just to look at books is punishment for me and the baby. I can't handle chasing her around the library for longer than I have to.

I'm just frustrated because I don't think it's reasonable to say "no books" ... as much as I want to say that.

[pianojazzgirl]

The reality of taking books out from the library means that you are agreeing to take on the responsibility for them. There are consequences if books are lost or wrecked. So I think you need to decide if you are willing to be the one responsible (and if you can afford to if that means lost or damaged-beyond-repair books!), or if you need for each of your dds to be responsible for the books she checks out. If you are not willing or able to take the responsibility solely yourself then you'll have to work out a system with your dds - letting them know what the responsibility entails (including paying for lost/damaged ones). Perhaps having each girl have a special place where her library books are always kept (when not being read) would help to make sure that they are kept off of the floor (out of bunny's reach!), and then they would be less likely to get lost.

If you decide that each girl must be responsible for her own books, then that also means that she should pay late fees for mislaid books, and replacement fees for ruined books. So, perhaps only taking books out when the girls have enough money saved to handle those possible expenses is an idea?

It seems like the confusion now stems from not having those "ground rules" laid out ahead of time. I say however you handle it now (whether you pay for the book, ask them to pay, ask just your 6 yr old to pay, have a few weeks with no library visit etc) the important thing is to figure out how you want to handle future library issues, and have a good discussion with your dds about it. If you decide that you'd like them to take on responsibility for their own books you could outline just what that entails and let them decide for themselves if it is worth taking the risk.

[Anastasiya]

It is perfectly reasonable to tell the children they are not allowed any books if they cannot take care of those books. The books do not belong to them - I would be ticked, for instance, if neighbor kids kept borrowing my kids' toys and ruining them, even if I got $$$ to replace the toys.

The natural consequence of not taking care of someone else's things is not getting to borrow them for awhile.

Maybe in the interim you can have a story telling time instead of a story reading time each day. You tell them stories, they tell you stories, etc.

[phathui5]

We're going to the library today, and I'm going to let them both check out books like usual. Or should I?

I wouldn't, until they paid for the book. They can do chores, work it off.

[_betsy_]

No way in heck would my kids be taking out any books until they figured out how, exactly, in writing, they were going to pay me/us/the family back for the cost of the damaged book, AND had spelled out, in writing, their solution to the book problem in the house.

You might be surprised how creative they could be, and they might come up with a better solution than you can. If you're not satisfied with their answers/solution, sit down with them and talk through the issues and spell out what you want from them in the future.

Remind them that taking books out from the library is a privilege, not a right, and that until you have all come up with a clear plan you all agree on, there will be no more books.

One solution might be that they jointly pay for the cost of the book (if no one fesses up), and in the future, there's a tote bag designated only for library books, that stays in one location, and that their books must be there when not actively being read at the moment. No books in bedrooms all night, or on the living room floor all day. This helps them stay organized, respect the books as something they've borrowed and need to return in the same condition, etc. If they fail to follow the rules, even just once, no new books for a week (or whatever your library frequency is). This single tote bag thing could work for school library books, too.

[Just1More]

Originally Posted by jrabbit

We have been having an ongoing problem at our house of disrespecting library books. We have a routine of "how" to keep track of them. We have rules about them not being taken outside. But the problem is that those rules and procedures are not being followed.

Well, you have a routine, and they aren't doing it. So, they have been duly warned, and it's fair to up the anty a bit.

How many books do they check out at a time? Rather than yank library books totally, maybe you could only let them check out one book at at time? If that book is taken care of, without any reminders or headache from you, then the next week they can get two? Then three, etc.

I've never understood how a child was supposed to prove he could do something right if he wasn't allowed to do it anymore.

I'd focus a lot less on punishment. (probably wouldn't at all, actually. It would depend on if I was getting any attitude about the situation.) I would lean heavily on the "this is a problem and a bad habit and we need to develop a new one, therefore..." Not blame, not guilt, just a matter of fact, "We've got to fix this on-going problem."

[betsyj]

Unconditional Parenting" right now, and I'm inclined to say that "no books" just isn't reasonable. The child who checked it out is 6 years old, and she doesn't have enough money to pay for it. The 10 year old is partly responsible, I think, but is it really fair to make her pay for it, either?

Unconditional Parenting isn't about letting kids do what they want with no consequences. Or allowed to be careless over and over with library books.

Like the other betsy said, I would absolutely explain that sadly we can not check out any more library books until the kids have come up with a concrete plan for paying off the one that was damaged. I would also point out that not only do we have to pay for the library to get a new book, no one else will be able to enjoy that book until we replace it.

Because, this isn't just about them paying for a damaged book. Taking care of library books is about the bigger picture as well. I take my library privileges very seriously and I want my kids to as well.

You are not being mean or punitive about it. You aren't saying NO MORE LIBRARY BOOKS EVER!!

You aren't calling them stupid or irresponsible or lazy.

By having them come up with a plan to pay for the book you are engaging them in the process, and giving them a concrete example of how to correct a mistake in a fair manner.

[One_Girl]

I would not let my dd check out a book until the fine was paid off. I think damaging library books is very serious because that means that a book is out of circulation for everybody for a long time, if it is an old book that is out of print it may not even be replacable. I would be so sad if I couldn't share some of the books that I enjoyed reading as a child because it was destroyed. I tend to hold on to the books in the library bag in my room and they have to be put back there at night. Having your kids sign for a book from you may help minimize the neglect and damage to the books.

[hakeber]

Originally Posted by Anastasiya

It is perfectly reasonable to tell the children they are not allowed any books if they cannot take care of those books. The books do not belong to them - I would be ticked, for instance, if neighbor kids kept borrowing my kids' toys and ruining them, even if I got $$$ to replace the toys.

The natural consequence of not taking care of someone else's things is not getting to borrow them for awhile.

Maybe in the interim you can have a story telling time instead of a story reading time each day. You tell them stories, they tell you stories, etc.

I agree.

Originally Posted by phathui5

I wouldn't, until they paid for the book. They can do chores, work it off.

Yeah. A six year old can afford to pay for a book. YOU will have to pay the library, but she can pay YOU back. She must be capable of doing stuff around the house to help you. Laundry sorting, cleaning up, scrubbing...etc. I would ALSO not let her take out another book until she had paid it all off and showed some real responsibility towards taking care of other people's things.

Originally Posted by One_Girl

I would not let my dd check out a book until the fine was paid off. I think damaging library books is very serious because that means that a book is out of circulation for everybody for a long time, if it is an old book that is out of print it may not even be replacable. I would be so sad if I couldn't share some of the books that I enjoyed reading as a child because it was destroyed. I tend to hold on to the books in the library bag in my room and they have to be put back there at night. Having your kids sign for a book from you may help minimize the neglect and damage to the books.

This is a great idea for mitigating damage in the future.

[jrabbit]

thanks for all the suggestions. DH and I decided that it is really everyone's fault due to me being so sick and everything really has been out of sorts for at least 3 weeks now. And, as such, we are going to just go forward from this point instead of trying to do anything retroactive. We gave the kids two choices: "they" could maintain complete responsibility for the books they check out, or "we" take responsibility. The 10yr old wants to take responsibility, but we agree that the 6yr old just isn't old enough.

Yesterday, since we hadn't really been able to discuss it as a family, I let them check out 6 and 10 books individually, based on their age. Normally, they check out at least 15, and we go to the library at least once a week, so limiting their books was actually quite difficult.

They each have a book box, and we will count the books daily. The book box must remain inside and out of baby's reach. If any book is found outside of the "book box", then all books are going to be put away til the next library day. One book at a time may be taken outside, but it may not be LEFT outside or in the car. These are the "house rules". 6yo has to follow the rules, but 10yo is allowed to choose whether or not she wants to follow the rules, but if she chooses not to, she will take all financial responsibility for her books.

In all honesty, the whole house has been upside down for awhile, and nobody has taken responsibility for anything, parents included. We're working on that. But in the meanwhile, the library is such an important resource for us, that eliminating it just isn't rational, we think.

thanks
--janis

[stik]

This has happened a couple times in my family. We talk about the importance of responsibility. We pay the library back for the book. (Our library also allows patrons to purchase a new copy of the book to give to the library instead of paying a fine, which is often cheaper.) My dd pays us back for paying the library.

We also limit library books - my dd is almost 9 and she has trouble keeping track of more than three library books at a time. We live close to the library, so it's easy for us to go back and get more when she finishes with the three she checked out. I have the same difficulty keeping track of books, and I also only check out three books at a time. I couldn't keep track of ten books for a week.

[jrabbit]

it's the younger one who has trouble keeping track of books. the older one can read 3 books in one day, and I'd literally LIVE at the library if I tried letting them have fewer books. As it is, I get anxiety going places, so once a week is a stretch for me.

When we're not sick, we really don't have a major problem with losing or damaging books. It's the younger one that is mostly to blame for that - in fact, of the 3 books that have been damaged, they were all "her" books. Which is why I've taken to scouring the floor every night on bunny-patrol. But since I'm the one who got the sickest, they were kinda left on their own more than normal these past couple weeks. DH isn't accustomed to having to watch their book behavior, so lots of books went outside while I was sick, too.

oh - and our library won't accept US buying the book - they will still charge us the insane replacement fees.

--janis

[pianojazzgirl]

Sounds like you got in sorted out in a way that makes a lot of sense for your family.

[minkleaf]

I just wanted to comment about how nice our library system is. One time we had to return a damaged book. My DD and I both apologized sincerely for hurting it. She knew her library privileges would be restricted for awhile and she'd have to work off the fine. Fortunately the librarian forgave our fine, and said kid's books get damaged, that's just how it is. If it happened frequently with us that would be a different matter, but one was OK. I think the apology helped. We talked about how lucky we were and to try to take better care of books in the future.

[coffeegirl]

Originally Posted by Anastasiya

It is perfectly reasonable to tell the children they are not allowed any books if they cannot take care of those books. The books do not belong to them - I would be ticked, for instance, if neighbor kids kept borrowing my kids' toys and ruining them, even if I got $$$ to replace the toys.

The natural consequence of not taking care of someone else's things is not getting to borrow them for awhile.

Maybe in the interim you can have a story telling time instead of a story reading time each day. You tell them stories, they tell you stories, etc.

I agree with those who've said that restricting library book privileges is a perfectly reasonable consequence for not properly taking care of library books. I noticed you said the kids normally check out 6-10- or as many as 15- books per week? If the damage/disrespect to the books keeps happening, and since you don't think it's reasonable to give them a complete "time-out" on library books, then maybe you could tell them that if any books are not taken care of properly in the future then they won't be able to check out as many books. Say, they'll only get 2 books each or something like that, for a week or so? Seems like that might be a reasonable compromise.

Oh and I feel you about the fees...it's annoying that the library charges you so much more than even the book is worth if it's damaged. I once lost a library book from the city library where I used to live, and they charged me like $80, or something crazy like that.

[HappyHappyMommy]

Originally Posted by coffeegirl

Oh and I feel you about the fees...it's annoying that the library charges you so much more than even the book is worth if it's damaged. I once lost a library book from the city library where I used to live, and they charged me like $80, or something crazy like that.

While I totally sympathize about the high fees, I also sympathize with the library. My aunt is a librarian and part of the cost of the fee to replace a book goes to cover the staff time for updating the inventory, ordering a new book, dealing with shipping and paying the vendor, cataloging the replacement book when it arrives, etc. In addition, often libraries order "library editions" (which have sturdier bindings, etc. and made to be used more often and experience wear and tear and may be more expensive) rather than "regular editions" available at bookstores for home use by a small number of users.

OP, I hope that your new system works out well. It sounds like your children really enjoy reading and going to the library and it's just that they need to learn to care for their books.

[coffeegirl]

Originally Posted by HappyHappyMommy

While I totally sympathize about the high fees, I also sympathize with the library. My aunt is a librarian and part of the cost of the fee to replace a book goes to cover the staff time for updating the inventory, ordering a new book, dealing with shipping and paying the vendor, cataloging the replacement book when it arrives, etc. In addition, often libraries order "library editions" (which have sturdier bindings, etc. and made to be used more often and experience wear and tear and may be more expensive) rather than "regular editions" available at bookstores for home use by a small number of users.

Ahh...I see now. Thanks, I always wondered why and how the libraries could justify charging so much for a book that I figured I could order from Amazon for $15.