Gardasil - monogamous relationship?

[GuavaGirl]

Whether or not you agree with getting the Gardasil vaccine....is there any reason that I would theoretically want to get it, if my husband and I have been each others only sexual partner...and plan to keep it that way?

I know my CNM is going to bring up the vaccine at my 6 week post partum appt. It's my understanding that the only way I'd be at risk is if one of us somehow get the virus (cheating?) ...or if we end up separating and being with other people....am I right...or am I missing something?

...and fyi, I'm not anti-vax.

[2boyzmama]

Theoretically...

--to protect yourself in case of rape/assault
--just because you have only had sex with each other, what about fondling/foreplay, etc? Supposedly HPV has been found under fingernails and orally as well
--I suppose there's an off chance that you could acquire it via a contaminated surface (toilet seat, not properly sanitized medical instrument, etc) but I don't know long it can live on surfaces

That's all I can come up with, and my personal opinion is that none of those warrant the vax.

She might try to sell it to you based on your age, it's not approved after 26, and what if you decide to divorce at age 40?

So theoretically...there you go.

[AFWife]

Originally Posted by 2boyzmama

Theoretically...

--to protect yourself in case of rape/assault
--just because you have only had sex with each other, what about fondling/foreplay, etc? Supposedly HPV has been found under fingernails and orally as well
--I suppose there's an off chance that you could acquire it via a contaminated surface (toilet seat, not properly sanitized medical instrument, etc) but I don't know long it can live on surfaces

That's all I can come up with, and my personal opinion is that none of those warrant the vax.

She might try to sell it to you based on your age, it's not approved after 26, and what if you decide to divorce at age 40?

So theoretically...there you go.

This...

but I also don't think that these reasons are "good enough" to pump my body full of crap.

[Marnica]

Those theoretical reasons have been covered by pp, but even those are a stretch IMO. If you don't want it, just tell her thanks but no thanks. You don't have to justify your reasons.

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by 2boyzmama

Theoretically...

--to protect yourself in case of rape/assault
--just because you have only had sex with each other, what about fondling/foreplay, etc? Supposedly HPV has been found under fingernails and orally as well
--I suppose there's an off chance that you could acquire it via a contaminated surface (toilet seat, not properly sanitized medical instrument, etc) but I don't know long it can live on surfaces
That's all I can come up with, and my personal opinion is that none of those warrant the vax.

She might try to sell it to you based on your age, it's not approved after 26, and what if you decide to divorce at age 40?

So theoretically...there you go.

Nope this theorectical can go out the window. One cannot get HPV this way. It cannot survive outside of the body long enough to be transmitted this way. Here are the ways you can get it: vaginal intercourse, anal intercourse, oral sex, touching your infected partner's genitals and then your own, genital-to-genital contact (same or opposite sex)

[Jadzia]

Was anyone that concerned about catching HPV before there was a vaccine for it? Serious question.

Back in my wild and loose days we worried about HIV, herpes, etc. Can't say HPV was one that we really paid much thought to.

Let us not forget that before Gardasil was released, Merck launched a massive information campaign about HPV.

[GoBecGo]

People worried about warts, but only a few strains of genital HPV cause warts, most are silent, and most people who were worrying about warts had no idea a virus called HPV caused them.

I am not anti-vax and i will research whether or not to get DD the vax in the year before it's offered to her (she's nearly 4, it's offered at 12 in this city right now).

I had sex when i was 14 with a guy who had had sex with one person before me, and based on that sexual history the gynae i saw for well-woman checks said "we assume if you are sexually active you have been exposed to HPV, simply because of how widespread it is".

FWIW my mother had 2 partners her whole life, her 2 husbands, one of whom was a virgin when they got together, and the other of whom was 20 (so i would assume hadn't slept with a crazy amount of other people), and she died of cervical cancer. Based on that i would probably get it if i were young enough and not pretty certain i already have it. But it's a very personal decision.

[PoppyMama]

If you get HPV it's about the equivalent of herpes only more painful to get rid of. I have to say that if I had the option of doing something to protect against it I'd weigh my options carefully. It can cause problems many many years down the road so even in you're in a monogamous relationship now the virus could have been acquired a long time ago and there would be no way of knowing unless/until something showed up.

[Emmeline II]

Originally Posted by PoppyMama

If you get HPV it's about the equivalent of herpes only more painful to get rid of. I have to say that if I had the option of doing something to protect against it I'd weigh my options carefully. It can cause problems many many years down the road so even in you're in a monogamous relationship now the virus could have been acquired a long time ago and there would be no way of knowing unless/until something showed up.

If you get the vaccine and you already have a strain that it "protects" against, that puts you at increased risk--so that is an argument against the vaccine.

[GoBecGo]

How does being vaccinated against something you already have put you at greater risk? Are women MORE likely to get cancer if they are vax'd against an HPV strain they already have? And how do they know that? Studies?

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by GoBecGo

People worried about warts, but only a few strains of genital HPV cause warts, most are silent, and most people who were worrying about warts had no idea a virus called HPV caused them.

I am not anti-vax and i will research whether or not to get DD the vax in the year before it's offered to her (she's nearly 4, it's offered at 12 in this city right now).

I had sex when i was 14 with a guy who had had sex with one person before me, and based on that sexual history the gynae i saw for well-woman checks said "we assume if you are sexually active you have been exposed to HPV, simply because of how widespread it is".

FWIW my mother had 2 partners her whole life, her 2 husbands, one of whom was a virgin when they got together, and the other of whom was 20 (so i would assume hadn't slept with a crazy amount of other people), and she died of cervical cancer. Based on that i would probably get it if i were young enough and not pretty certain i already have it. But it's a very personal decision.

Nutritional deficiencies, especially vitamin A and folate
* Mineral deficiency (zinc, selenium, calcium and iron)
* Smoking
* Birth control use
* Douching

These things have been shown to contribute to cervical cancer as well. There are 96 other strainsof HPV not covered in the vaccine. All have the potential to progress to cancer. Just something to think about.

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by GoBecGo

How does being vaccinated against something you already have put you at greater risk? Are women MORE likely to get cancer if they are vax'd against an HPV strain they already have? And how do they know that? Studies?

This is certainly not the party line. FDA and manufacturer state it is safe to get regardless if one has had a previous infection. All it says is that if you already currently have one of the types in the vax, it will not help clear an already established infection. This is not to say I believe anything the FDA or the manufactuere says because I don't, but i would like to see studies about this as well, because I remember reading somewhere that this was the case, but can't remeber where.

[GoBecGo]

Originally Posted by Marnica

Nutritional deficiencies, especially vitamin A and folate
* Mineral deficiency (zinc, selenium, calcium and iron)
* Smoking
* Birth control use
* Douching

These things have been shown to contribute to cervical cancer as well. There are 96 other strainsof HPV not covered in the vaccine. All have the potential to progress to cancer. Just something to think about.

Believe me, i am very well aware of the potentials with cervical cancer, i nursed her through her illness, treatments and death, i read anything and everything i could get my hands on. She ate well in later life but was born in 1937 and lived through rationing as a child, and at one time in the 1960's was a single mother with 4 children and her BMI was 16 for several years while she fed her kids with what little she could earn. She smoked for 4 years in her 20's (she got cervical cancer when she was 59), she used a cervical cap and spermicidal "sheets" (which you can no longer get) for birth control when she used it at all. She didn't, to my knowledge, douche, and did tell me very strongly not to overwash the area when i was a teen, so i think she probably didn't actually do it (rather than not telling me she did). In her case it's possible that a drug interaction between HRT she was on and amiodarone for a heart condition contributed, though of course everyone and anyone in a white coat denied this at the time. It's also very unclear to me that cervical cancer is what she definitely HAD since initially it was dx as suspected endometrial in origin but when they operated to remove it they found it seemed to have originated in the os and grown forward into the bladder (it was a grade 4 tumour before anyone would listen to her complaints of bleeding and DO something - she had 4 PAP smears in 16 months and they all came back clear, 2months after the last one she was dx with cancer). It was adenocarcinoma, which is far more common as an endometrial cancer, and is not a squamous cell cancer but HPV is still the biggest known risk factor for cervical adenocarcinoma at the moment. Her death certificate says "cervical cancer" on it at any rate (by the time she died she hadn't had a cervix, or a uterus, for 7 years).

It is true, the vaccine only claims to protect against the HPV's which cause 70% of the cervical cancers. For some people that would be a valuable thing, and for others not so much. And we might find in a number of decades that in the absence of those HPV strains merely allows other strains to progress to the point that they cause cervical cancer. It's all an ongoing debate and learning experience for us all i guess.

[Turquesa]

Originally Posted by Jadzia

Was anyone that concerned about catching HPV before there was a vaccine for it? Serious question.

Back in my wild and loose days we worried about HIV, herpes, etc. Can't say HPV was one that we really paid much thought to.

Let us not forget that before Gardasil was released, Merck launched a massive information campaign about HPV.

This is just it. Pre-Gardasil, I remember reading a national organization's description of HPV as if it were no big deal; most sexually active people (about 80%) will get it, most cases are mild and disappear on their own, and cancer cases from HPV are exceedingly rare. And--by the way--regular pap smears are extremely effective in preventing cervical cancer fatalities. That was the description of yester-year.

It would be really interesting to get a hold of some brochures from those pre-Gardasil years and compare them to what we read today. Diseases tend to get reeeeeeeallllly scary and dangerous once a vaccine is available for them.

[Emmeline II]

http://www.i-sis.org.uk/HPV_Vaccine_Controversy.php

Vaccination with the HPV 16/18 L1 vaccine provides no benefit for women with pre-existing infection, and may leave them more susceptible to other oncogenic HPV types. Pre-screening the potential vaccination candidate for HPV DNA would be desirable, but is not done

From this thread http://www.mothering.com/discussions...light=gardasil

From this forum search http://www.mothering.com/discussions...5&pp=20&page=6

I don't have time to dig deeper right now, so here it is...

[JBaxter]

Originally Posted by Turquesa

This is just it. Pre-Gardasil, I remember reading a national organization's description of HPV as if it were no big deal; most sexually active people (about 80%) will get it, most cases are mild and disappear on their own, and cancer cases from HPV are exceedingly rare. And--by the way--regular pap smears are extremely effective in preventing cervical cancer fatalities. That was the description of yester-year.

It would be really interesting to get a hold of some brochures from those pre-Gardasil years and compare them to what we read today. Diseases tend to get reeeeeeeallllly scary and dangerous once a vaccine is available for them.

I was coming back to post this

[PrincessAnika]

even if i were totally pro-vax i would run as far away from this as possible, faster than a speeding bullet. i have not heard one good thing about it. period. the side effects from this vaccine are incredibly high - to the point that our peds office has a HUGE sign stating that 'if your child receives the gardasil vaccine you are REQUIRED to remain in the office for 15 minutes after administration' (caps theirs).
~ also, there are over 100 strains of HPV, more than 10 of which cause cancer - the vax covers 4 types, 2 of which cause cancer (yes they are the most popular ones but blocking those will lead to an increase in others).
~ the vaccine is not proven effective beyond 5 years, at which point you must be revaxed.
~ toyota has had 52 deaths due to faulty autos - theres a recall going on. there are 49 deaths linked to gardasil - not even so much as a breath of a warning, let alone a recall.
~ HPV is only transmitted sexually, as a PP said.
~ the vax doesn't forego the need for routine exams
~ other ingredients - including aluminum, polysorbate 80, yeast, to name a few (would not do this one if you have celiac, ibs, or other ibd, or wheat allergy)
got this link from a friend of mine a couple months ago..... http://ecochildsplay.com/2009/08/28/...tions-parents/

[GoBecGo]

Originally Posted by PrincessAnika

even if i were totally pro-vax i would run as far away from this as possible, faster than a speeding bullet. i have not heard one good thing about it. period. the side effects from this vaccine are incredibly high - to the point that our peds office has a HUGE sign stating that 'if your child receives the gardasil vaccine you are REQUIRED to remain in the office for 15 minutes after administration' (caps theirs).
~ also, there are over 100 strains of HPV, more than 10 of which cause cancer - the vax covers 4 types, 2 of which cause cancer (yes they are the most popular ones but blocking those will lead to an increase in others).
~ the vaccine is not proven effective beyond 5 years, at which point you must be revaxed.
~ toyota has had 52 deaths due to faulty autos - theres a recall going on. there are 49 deaths linked to gardasil - not even so much as a breath of a warning, let alone a recall.
~ HPV is only transmitted sexually, as a PP said.
~ the vax doesn't forego the need for routine exams
~ other ingredients - including aluminum, polysorbate 80, yeast, to name a few (would not do this one if you have celiac, ibs, or other ibd, or wheat allergy)
got this link from a friend of mine a couple months ago..... http://ecochildsplay.com/2009/08/28/...tions-parents/

Just on the bolded bit - i'm in the UK and with EVERY vaccine me or DD have ever been given you're required to wait 10-15mins in the waiting room before leaving to make sure there's no immediate reaction (because the anaphylactic reactions tend to be immediate). Isn't that normal in the US? I would be concerned if a doctor gave my child a vaccine of any sort and then said we could go right away...

[Turquesa]

Originally Posted by GoBecGo

Just on the bolded bit - i'm in the UK and with EVERY vaccine me or DD have ever been given you're required to wait 10-15mins in the waiting room before leaving to make sure there's no immediate reaction (because the anaphylactic reactions tend to be immediate). Isn't that normal in the US? I would be concerned if a doctor gave my child a vaccine of any sort and then said we could go right away...

Um, I'm in the U.S. and have never heard of doing it any other way than pricking you and sending you on your merry way! Very interesting...... I'll have to take this up with my doc next visit!

[PrincessAnika]

unfortunately no its not standard practice.