AP sleep failure. WAS: Do you want to go in your crib?

[justKate]

I have a sleep fighter. She's 13.5 mos. We had some improvement for about a month, but now we're back to fighting for 2 hours to go to sleep at night.

So here's what I've done. Please give me some feedback!

Start bedtime routine at 7:00. Play in tub, PJs, teeth, nurse in our bed. Her crib is sidecarred, but with the rail still on but down. After nursing she wants to run around in the bed, pull my hair, climb on headboard, etc. Sitting/laying her down = hysterical screaming fit. I ask her "do you want to go in your crib?" and she lunges for it, so I put her there. She plays (loudly, rattling rails, biting, shouting at stuffed monkey) while I play dead. Then she starts crying for me, so I try to cuddle her. Nope, back up. "Do you want to go back in your crib." Back she goes. We do this for about 2 hours. Back and forth. Finally she decides that she does not want to go back in the crib, and settles for cuddling to sleep. She screams bloody murder if Daddy tries to help. Then I have about 1/2 hour to get everything ready for the next day and get to sleep myself. What she really "wants to do" is get up and explore the house, stumbling and falling in to things, whimpering because she's tired, whinning for things she knows she can't have/reach, until she passes out from sheer exhaustion. And that's not fun for anyone!

So this isn't working.

1. For one thing, there's a giant crib in our room that's only used as a holding cell.
2. It takes 2 hours. It would take about the same amount of time if I just held her close (read: held her down) and let her hit/scratch/scream until she settles down.

Would it be better to just let her stay up until she passes out and deal with the whinning? I really think she needs this sleep.

My mom (the only person who really "gets" what a spirited, dramatic child DD is) explained that this is why she CIO'ed me--because it was "safer" for me to be up and tantruming around in my crib.

Maybe I should do a poll, just for fun, because I'm at wit's end. What would you do with her?

UPDATE POST 18.

[Baby_Cakes]

Your DD sounds like mine. We start winding down around 8 or 8:30, but I can''t force bedtime. It's a waste of time and energy (mine) to try to hold her down while she wriggles, or force her to stay in arms while I rock her. Instead, DH and I close all the lights, we put something on TV and let DD play in the living room w/us until she's sleepy. At 12-13 mo, DD wasn't quite walking yet, so she would just kinda crawl around, poke at toys, play with stuff, etc. At around 9-10 she would be ready to nurse to sleep, and she'd fall right asleep (most of the time).

No method is perfect, but what you're describing seriously isn't working. This is who your daughter is. I am convinced there is no secret that we're supposed to figure out, there is no "cure" or magic combination of things to do to get our LO's to sleep. They will be who they are and we must love them and parent them through it, with the least amount of harm to them AND to us. Your routine sounds incredibly frustrating and stressful! As long as she isn't harming anyone or anything, I say let her roam until she is ready for bed.

[DeerMother]

How is day sleep? I ask b/c at that age, my sleep fighter would be more willing to go to sleep at night if he had a good nap that day.

If ds (now 2) is refusing to sleep and not responding to rocking/holding/wearing etc., I would allow him to stay in my bed with the lights dimmed while I read or did another quiet activity. I made it clear to him that this was quiet time and we would not be playing. Maybe 13 months is a little young for that tactic, think I started that when he was around 16-18 months.

Does she fall asleep in stroller, car or sling? I might also consider getting her to sleep in other ways at the desired time for a week or so. Maybe she needs a clear signal and several nights of doing it for it to become habit.

[bri276]

Sounds like she's not tired enough yet. No bedtime routine should be 2 hours long, it's just not fair to either one of you! I'd try a whole new routine (I had a sleep fighter for 3+ years, seen it all!) which sometimes revitalizes your energy as a parent and enables the child to snap out of the behavior pattern.

I would move bedtime up to 8:30 as well. I'd just try it. If she's totally miserable and exhausted, you can always move it back, but some kids don't need as much sleep as "they" say.

[To-Fu]

I'd try a whole new routine, too. It really sounds like it's not working for any of you.

Could you put her in a carrier and wear/nurse her down? It doesn't give you time alone necessarily, but it does give you two free hands and the mobility to get things ready for the coming day. Someone on my local API list has her husband wear their todler on his back while he bounces on a fitness ball. The motion and closeness to Dad puts her to sleep. Do you have a partner that could help, or at least give you a break? It might mean you have to physically leave the house--I've found that my 26mo son will go to sleep just fine for my partner as long as I'm not there, but will scream like crazy otherwise.

You might also try slightly different bedtimes and see if that helps (maybe she just needs to be up a little longer/shorter?). When does she nap during the day? Is she getting enough up time between waking from her nap and starting the bedtime routine? Is she getting enough activity in the afternoons?

Have you read Sleepless in America or The No-Cry Sleep Solution? Those might have some ideas for you.

Good luck--I still have those two-hour nights every now and then, but they involve less fighting and crying, luckily.

[InMediasRes]

Sounds like you need a new routine! My DS was a horrible sleep fighter and the only routine that seemed to work for him was NO routine. I had to keep him guessing or he figured out that I was trying to put him to sleep. I walked him in a carrier when the weather was nice, I nursed in the bed, I rocked in a chair and sang to him, etc. etc. etc. Whatever I could think of, I tried. Mostly he liked motion when he was doing the fighting thing.

Good luck.

[Tjej]

It does sound like you need to find a new routine. Can you run her wild in the afternoon so she is totally exhausted for a few days, to make switching routines easier? That is something I do when daylight savings time messes my kids up and that helps.

What does she do if you put her in her crib by herself and leave? Some soft music, a toy or two (quiet)? I don't co-sleep, so that is where I am coming from, but my DD rarely falls asleep with us if we are sharing a bed somewhere (on visits). She just finds it too exciting to have me as an audience. So if I put her down first and let her fall asleep, that works better.

Tjej

[_betsy_]

I was still swaddling my spirited DD1 at that age. It was her ONLY cue that we expected her to go to sleep. Nothing else worked, nothing else made her realize it was bedtime. Certainly, she didn't have it in herself to stop and go to sleep *just* because she was tired! Swaddle, nurse, rock and sing to her was the only way to get her to sleep for a long, long time.

I agree with trying something new entirely. Maybe a bath? (It just winds DD1 up more, though, so she bathes in the morning.)

[pianojazzgirl]

I would let her stay up later and see if that makes it easier to get her to sleep.

With my dd I approached it much like you did... and ended up with 2 hr bedtime battles. With ds (my 2nd baby) I just let all my expectations go and let him be the night owl that he naturally was. Now at 2.5 he finally goes to sleep around 8pm like his sister, but as a baby and younger toddler he just wasn't ready to go down that early. And it wasn't worth the struggle for me to switch his internal clock around to an earlier bedtime.

[dachshund mom]

We've been going through the EXACT SAME THING for months. It's terrible. DD will be so sleepy and drowsy, then the second we hit the bed, she goes nuts. Gets off the bed, then wants back up. Yells at her stuffed dog to "get". Yells at me to "get". Walks around the house, falls on her butt and starts hysterically crying. Nurse, pop off, nurse, pop off, nurse, bite. Points at door and cries "dada dada".

I know what our problem is. DD takes a 20 minute nap around noon and a second 20min nap at 6pm. She needs to drop the second nap since it's so late, but then she'll stand at my feet crying while I make dinner. I try to put her to sleep all afternoon, then at 6 she crawls in my lap to nurse and is out in seconds. She needs to go to bed earlier. DH gets home at 7pm and would be heart broken if he didn't get to spend time with her. And she won't sleep in. Ugh.

So no real help here. Drop a late nap or earlier bedtime. I'll be reading along. Tonight I'm going to try to put her to sleep in the carrier.

[justKate]

Originally Posted by Tjej

It does sound like you need to find a new routine. Can you run her wild in the afternoon so she is totally exhausted for a few days, to make switching routines easier? That is something I do when daylight savings time messes my kids up and that helps.

What does she do if you put her in her crib by herself and leave? Some soft music, a toy or two (quiet)? I don't co-sleep, so that is where I am coming from, but my DD rarely falls asleep with us if we are sharing a bed somewhere (on visits). She just finds it too exciting to have me as an audience. So if I put her down first and let her fall asleep, that works better.

Tjej

Yesterday was a very exciting day--she had an "easter party" at daycare, then we went for a long walk to the playground in the early evening, and she went down (relatively) easily at 8:00. WTH? Maybe she does just need to be totally exhausted.

I think she would sleep better in the sidecarred crib because she definitely likes her own space in our bed, but she cries hysterically if I try to leave her alone in there. Or even if I leave her in the crib and lay (lie?) down in the bed by myself next to her. Real tears, "mama! mama!" And I have never let her CIO. I'd like to try to transition but that seems like such a big task right now!

I don't know how to multi-quote still, but as for day sleep, she still takes 2 one hour naps during the day at Baby School. So she wakes at 6:45, naps from about 10-11 and 2-3, then we try bed time around 7. That does sound like a lot of sleep for a 13 month old, huh? I'm going to start making 8 the "bedtime" goal and see if that helps...

Sorta OT, but I've been reading Raising Your Spirited Child, and I'm so disappointed that there's not much about pre-verbal kiddos. Anyone have any recs for books that address spirited infants/toddlers, especially re. sleep?

Thanks for all of your thoughts!

[mamaChe]

If you have any control over it at school, try transitioning her to one nap during the day, around 12. I'd bet that sleeping until 3 gives her too much pep in the afternoon.

ETA: that the 8 pm bedtime goal sounds good for 2 hrs of daytime napping. I've got an average sleeper-- in bed by 8 up at 7 and naps from 11:30-1:30 on good days. If she requires less sleep, I'd adjust her nap before adjusting bedtime. "They" say that the best sleep is obtained before midnight.

[One_Girl]

I suggest that you move her bedtime back an hour and keep laying her down and telling her good night or nigh night in a gentle voice. My dd went through phases of this every year until she was four.

[StephandOwen]

Originally Posted by mamaChe

If you have any control over it at school, try transitioning her to one nap during the day, around 12. I'd bet that sleeping until 3 gives her too much pep in the afternoon.

I agree. At the daycare I work at all the children age 12 months and over sleep from noon to two. If they sleep later than 2 we have parents complaining that they don't sleep well at night. So maybe try having the daycare change the naptimes and see how that helps?

[justKate]

Originally Posted by StephandOwen

I agree. At the daycare I work at all the children age 12 months and over sleep from noon to two. If they sleep later than 2 we have parents complaining that they don't sleep well at night. So maybe try having the daycare change the naptimes and see how that helps?

You guys are right, I'm going to talk to daycare about napping her once, midday. My only concern is that they might not like that idea. She's in the infant room because the 12-18 month room was recently eliminated (low enrollment). But it can't hurt to ask....

[Louisep]

Was scanning through to see what her napping schedule is... When we put DS (high spirited too) onto a one nap schedule from 11:30-1 our nap and night time sleep fighting ended. We have active days and now he passes out (without crying) within 5-30 minutes for both naps and bedtime.

If this doesn't work for you, I think you should reclaim that 2 hours you're spending putting her down and just keep her up. I know it can be so so so infuriating to be lying in a darkened room while the evening ticks away. Like PP said, try wearing her around the house or take her for a calming walk now the weather is warming up.

Let us know what happens!

[fireHC11]

We have nights (not all, but some) like this. My son is 14 months. Usually, when I can't get him down once, I let him get up and try putting him down again every 30 minutes or so. Meanwhile, I will do dishes or clean up the living room, or put on a movie or show, like Project Runway, sit on the couch, and watch it. My son wanders around and plays with his toys and winds down... and I get to sit on my butt for the first time all day too.

Every 30 minutes I'll try again, but if it's clear that I'm going to be lying there annoyed for 45 minutes to an hour, because of other things I could be doing rather than trying to get a kid that just isn't sleepy down for the night, I will get up.

I just don't have that kind of time anymore.

[justKate]

Feeling like a total AP failure right now. DD is crying in her crib (against our bed). She's being crying forever...45 min. in my arms laying down, then 45 min in Huz's arms, now 5 min in her crib. If I stayed with her any longer I was going to throw her out of the window. I'm going back up in a minute, I just needed a break.

We tried to cut a 2nd nap over the weekend and it hasn't worked so well...by 5 she was walking around falling down crying, running head first in to walls, screaming when I would pick her up to comfort her (b/c she's afraid that will make her fall asleep). I just don't know what to do. We've r/o medical issues... ugh. I really feel like a failure. If you've made it this far, thanks. I just need to get it out.

kate

[pianojazzgirl]

You are not a failure mama, we've all been there (not maybe the exact situation, but the same feeling... I promise).

I'm sorry if I missed this somewhere else in the thread, but have you tried wearing her to sleep (I mean babywearing)? Or at least to calm her down? In a case like tonight where she's so worked up do you think putting her in the stroller or carrier and going for a walk would help? Or even a car ride?

At this point you must be stressed out (I know I would be) and maybe she is picking up on your vibe? Perhaps getting out of the house, or changing things completely might help. Another thought is put on tv or a movie (appropriate for her to watch) and let her zone out on your lap and maybe she'll conk out (this worked for my ds to fall asleep when he was babysat when nothing else would work).

Good luck! Keep us posted!

[dawncayden]

there are phases where huge sleep battles happen regularily. Just keep telling yourself 'this too shall pass'.

I don't have much advice but the book Sleepless in America is amazing and has lots of great info.

With our 1 year old. He does well with one long nap or two short naps. If he's falling down and needing a 2nd nap I usually try to nap him for just 30 minutes. I also reschedule bedtime for a wee bit later if he had a 2nd nap so he's tired enough to go to sleep.

Try having some active time right after dinner. Play wrestle, dance, jump etc. Burn off some energy for a good hour, then wind down and start bath time, snack and start dimming the lights getting ready to relax. You could also play a calming cd to mark the 'relaxing' time but sometimes cd's backfire too.