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Ultrasound studies? - Page 2

post #21 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gingercat View Post
How can anyone claim that there's no indication of harm to the fetus? How is "harm" defined?
That's actually a great question, but it could also be posed as "How does anyone know that there *is* harm to the fetus?" The fact of the matter is that we do not know either way. The science has not proven anything pro or con. Therefore, it is up to each woman to decide what is best for her.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WingonWing
It's not only the rise in temp. It's the qualifications necessary to become a u/s tech--do any of you know what they are?
Actually, I do because DH and I asked our sonographer during the 20 week ultrasound. There are some sketchy "programs" out there--basically certificate programs that do not take very long to complete and do not have very many requirements. Our sonographer, who works at the hospital where I will deliver (which is one of the best hospitals in the country in many medical areas), attended an actual post-bac 3-year "school" (for lack of a better word), where students were required to have BS degrees in particular areas before they would even be considered for admission. The school is highly selective and takes in a very small incoming class every year, and the hospital where I am delivering will not even consider employment applications from various "certificate programs."

So of course, there are people out there wielding an ultrasound wand without adequate training to do so, and I personally would not feel comfortable with a "vanity" 3-D or 4-D scan, but there are very professional, highly qualified sonographers out there who are trained to conduct and read ultrasounds correctly. And for some women, that peace of mind is worth it.
post #22 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by WingonWing View Post

Even the FDA, which I don't often agree with, does not stand by ultrasounds as a routine procedure and states clearly that they are for medical need ONLY.
Without any other research on the topic, knowing what I know about the FDA in other subjects, this would have me running for the hills.

Honestly though, I think it's a bit anti-science to claim that since we've been doing this for decades without any clear, 4x4 over the head signs, therefore it's safe/okay.

In actuality, we are dealing with epidemic levels of neurological impairment in the developed world. And we all understand illness is the result of a complex situation involving several environmental factors and usually a genetic one.


What we have here is a lack of background. Since almost all women are routinely exposing their pre-born children to ultrasound, how can establish what is normal and what is damaged?

We have almost no information on the way the brain develops hemispherically and how right brain/left brain is determined. Some scientists believe right brain/left brain determination is actually a symptom of damage...that the brain is not aligned and that one side had to compensate. After what? Intrauterine damage?
post #23 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by WingonWing View Post
It's not only the rise in temp. It's the qualifications necessary to become a u/s tech--do any of you know what they are?
Like PP pointed out, there are some "certified by mail" kind and some that are really qualified. This is one reason why I did not allow my OB to do my u/s in office, but instead went across the street to the high risk specialists at the hospital. Because quality education was important to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorin View Post
That's actually a great question, but it could also be posed as "How does anyone know that there *is* harm to the fetus?" The fact of the matter is that we do not know either way. The science has not proven anything pro or con. Therefore, it is up to each woman to decide what is best for her.
Quote:
Originally Posted by claddaghmom View Post
Honestly though, I think it's a bit anti-science to claim that since we've been doing this for decades without any clear, 4x4 over the head signs, therefore it's safe/okay.

In actuality, we are dealing with epidemic levels of neurological impairment in the developed world. And we all understand illness is the result of a complex situation involving several environmental factors and usually a genetic one.


What we have here is a lack of background. Since almost all women are routinely exposing their pre-born children to ultrasound, how can establish what is normal and what is damaged?

We have almost no information on the way the brain develops hemispherically and how right brain/left brain is determined. Some scientists believe right brain/left brain determination is actually a symptom of damage...that the brain is not aligned and that one side had to compensate. After what? Intrauterine damage?
Not sure if this was being directed at my previous posts, but I wanted to add that I never said it was safe. What I did say was that the benefit, to me, outweighed the risks. I also said that if u/s equalled mc, then there should have been some correlation between the huge increase in early u/s and mc in the last decade. I don't believe there has been, but I could be wrong.
post #24 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kidzaplenty View Post
Like PP pointed out, there are some "certified by mail" kind and some that are really qualified. This is one reason why I did not allow my OB to do my u/s in office, but instead went across the street to the high risk specialists at the hospital. Because quality education was important to me.





Not sure if this was being directed at my previous posts, but I wanted to add that I never said it was safe. What I did say was that the benefit, to me, outweighed the risks. I also said that if u/s equalled mc, then there should have been some correlation between the huge increase in early u/s and mc in the last decade. I don't believe there has been, but I could be wrong.
Oh, no I wasn't directing anything at you.

Although if you have the links to the M/C and U/S rates that show no correlation I'd love to save them. I try to expand my perspective on both sides of any argument and I think that'd be helpful on FB.
post #25 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by claddaghmom View Post
Without any other research on the topic, knowing what I know about the FDA in other subjects, this would have me running for the hills.

Honestly though, I think it's a bit anti-science to claim that since we've been doing this for decades without any clear, 4x4 over the head signs, therefore it's safe/okay.

In actuality, we are dealing with epidemic levels of neurological impairment in the developed world. And we all understand illness is the result of a complex situation involving several environmental factors and usually a genetic one.


What we have here is a lack of background. Since almost all women are routinely exposing their pre-born children to ultrasound, how can establish what is normal and what is damaged?

We have almost no information on the way the brain develops hemispherically and how right brain/left brain is determined. Some scientists believe right brain/left brain determination is actually a symptom of damage...that the brain is not aligned and that one side had to compensate. After what? Intrauterine damage?
This is an excellent point. I'm 33 years old. My mother had good OB care with me, and never once had an u/s. With my brother, who is 2.5 years younger, she had 1 at 20 weeks. By the time I had my first, I had repeat u/s..most were to clarify some issue that was presented on the first u/s. Since then, I've become more naturally minded, and I will only have an u/s if my midwife suspects issues-none for gender or just to check things. It's a personal choice that I don't begrudge any mom for. However, like a PP said, it usually ends up causing weeks of worry for one CM off of this, or one question about that-then more follow up u/s.

We are certainly dealing with a neurological epidemic with the younger generation. We also have a huge increase in auto-immune disorder (thought many times to be triggered in the hormonal/enzyme creating portion of the brain) and behavioral problems. While I believe much of this is caused by over vaccination and contaminants, the fact that u/s have gone from some obscure and rare OB tool, to a routine (and sometimes for fun) money maker.

U/S is designed for use in aiding in the diagnosis of problems. Plain and simple. We simply do not know what early, repeated and lengthy exposure (the kind most pg mom's have with OB's today in our country) does to those tiny neurons in development. The FDA certainly won't be the go-to for this info, just like they aren't with vax'ing. It'll be up to mindful mama's to research, weigh, and speak up. If an u/s is clearly desired for placental position, possible growth restriction or suspected fetal development problems, then by all means, u/s as that is what they are for! However, with my new "thinking" based on research of vax'ing and fear that the FDA truly has none of our interests in mind as priority regarding medicine/herbs/etc., I will not trust them to protect my baby(s) for safety over repeated u/s for gender, to prove to them my baby is healthy or optimally set up for delivery, or "to get a little peek".
post #26 of 26
Quote:
Like PP pointed out, there are some "certified by mail" kind and some that are really qualified. This is one reason why I did not allow my OB to do my u/s in office, but instead went across the street to the high risk specialists at the hospital. Because quality education was important to me.
Yes, this and the other pp's comment is exactly what I'm talking about. Yeah, WE might ask what the u/s tech's qualifications are, and WE might ask the u/s tech to fill out a form stating when the machine was calibrated and what power is being used and for how long, but how many women do that? Not many, I'd venture. I mean, I spent a lot of time interviewing providers before TTCing, but I don't think that's the norm, and I seriously doubt that many women would sit there and question their OB on the qualifications of his or her u/s tech (whether in the office or recommended).

One of my friends was so excited the other day because she got "extra time" seeing her baby with the u/s machine since she said yes to allowing a student into the room to observe. She's not the only one--other people I know have bragged about 45 or 60 minute sessions! I would not be very excited about that, personally. If there's a medical need to look at something inside me, great--look at it and then get that thing off of me!

And if you look at other message boards like The Bump, the threads are rife with women asking for extra ultrasounds or figuring out ways to get them. And it's not just women who have suffered a loss (which is a whole different ballgame and which I will not judge).

The "need" for three or five or nine ultrasounds in a single pregnancy is costing us all a ton of money.
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