Is it reasonable to expect a 10mth old to...

[Kiwiontheloose]

....go 5hrs between feeds at night time?

Heres the story,
DD (10mths) has been waking up approx 2hrly lately, which is actually quite good in comparison to some periods (we had 40min wakings all night long for months 3 and 4). But I'm getting tired, and over it, and I want something to change.

We all sleep (DH, DD and I) on large mattresses on the floor, since she started crawling, and we really enjoy co-sleeping.
We had intended to try the Jay Gordon method of nightweaning when she was somewhere between 12-18months but I kind of feel that to go from 2hrly feeds, straight to a 7hr block would be kind of tough, so I was thinking of easing in, starting from now.

So, I decided that she would have her pre-bed feed (around 7ish) but then I wouldn't feed her again until after midnight, and then not after that until after 5am. We actually tried it last night - she woke a bit after 9pm, and it took until around 11 of rocking, patting, offering water etc until she went back to sleep. Then woke at 1am and I fed her until about 1.30am. Then *get this* she slept until 6am! (thats a 4.5hr stink folks!).

So I guess it *worked*, but there was a 2hr window in there where she was pretty angry (albeit being rocked/held etc).

I'm hoping for more sucess and less fuss tonight, but I'm also wondering if my expectations are realistic. should I downsize to 3-4hrs? keep going? thoughts??

[newbiemama09]

i think a 10 mo can be expected to go that long, but it always, always depends on the babe. some kiddos wake up every couple of hours for no real reason, some can go all night no problem. it always depends on the kiddo.

[sophiesgrandma]

how much does she eat besides the bm during the day?

[Kiwiontheloose]

she usually has about 1/2 cup of oatmeal/fruit for breakfast (spoonfeeds herself), some finger food (fruit, sandwich, leftovers) at lunchtime, and bites from whatever I might be eating at the time. and about 1/2 cup of whatever we're having for dinner.
Plus b/f throughout the day obviously. I don't really know how often but if I had to guess probably about 5 or so times throughout the day.

[sophiesgrandma]

Maybe it would help if she got a before bed snack.

[MeepyCat]

I agree with the bedtime snack suggestion.

I don't think it's unreasonable for a 10 month old to go a five hour stretch without eating at night, but if she's used to every two hours, you do have some rocky patches to go through to get there. That may mean that, yes, for a week or so, you are up and rocking her for two hours in the middle of the night, offering crackers and water and doing what you can to get her back to sleep without nursing her. This is an emotionally tough time for both of you, and it can be hard to stick with the resolution not to give in and offer the breast. If you think this is the right time, stick with it and it will get better.

[Kiwiontheloose]

Thanks for the replies.
She has dinner at about 6, then b/f at around 7 when she goes to bed. Would I give a snack at 7 as well as the b/milk?
Because we had success for the 2nd part of the night last night I think we will try again tonight.
Hubby is off work for easter, and we are staying home (not going away on holiday) so its probably a good time to do it.

[Altair]

That's really eerie-- exactly what we did!

I started about 10 months, making sure he was eating enough during the day... then I did the same 7AM, 12AM, 5AM schedule. It took some getting used to for him, but he was cuddled or whatever it took throughout it. We had MUCH more success when I left the room during those times, he tended to fall asleep easily for Daddy.

Then at 12 months I cut out the midnight one. Same idea. It all was MUCH easier than I expected.

However, he still woke up frequently (every 2 hours at least), so I started teaching him how to fall asleep on his own in the crib (before that we co-slept half or all of the night, now only after 5AM, and his crib is right up against my side of the bed so he can wake up and see me). Over some weeks I'd put him down more awake and rub his back until he was asleep, then I started laying him down pretty awake and just leaning over the crib but not touching him, laying him down whenever he stood up and kissing him. Then after a few nights I'd sit next to the bed and hold his hand through the slats, then graduated to laying on the opposite side of the bed and reading. Just tonight I left the room while he was still awake for the first time and he fell asleep!

It took a LONG time to get him to fall asleep this way (quite a few nights of 2 hour bedtimes), but he doesn't wake up now until 5 or 6 AM!!! It's amazing! And he's been really happy with this new routine. He lays in bed and holds 3 pacifiers in his hands and exchanges them in his mouth to amuse himself until he falls asleep. And this is from a formerly VERY demanding all night nursing baby!

ETA: we also do dinner at 6 and nurse at 7. are you living in my house???

[Kiwiontheloose]

Altair - did you post about it on here?? cos maybe I got the 5hr idea in my head from reading something on here.....or maybe its just a pretty common goal...who knows!!

But so great to hear about your success story. Thats definately some light at the end of the tunnel for me - especially how you've now got to the point where he falls asleep by himself.

You know, my one does the paci thing too! - I'm in the room with her and if she's not ready to go to sleep just yet she swaps the paci's over and over until I intervene and take the extra ones away and either nurse or pat her bum until she falls asleep.

[mamaofthree]

maybe i am the odd man out here, but that seems pretty young. but then none of my 5 children ever slept straight thru the night for a few years. i guess maybe i was just expecting it or i just was good on less sleep. lol
i am not sure i get the idea of rocking her to sleep for two hours while she fusses instead of nursing her to sleep in 30 minutes. i am guessing you are night weaning? i was under the impression that babies needed to nurse a bit more then that, but maybe not.

h

[Kiwiontheloose]

Not trying to fully night wean, just cut down to 2 nursings (12ish and 5ish) per night - I definitely understand that she still needs to feed at night.

On the other hand if there is some evidence (research etc) that suggests that a 10mth old should still be demand fed through the night, I would definitely revise what we are doing - would be really interested if anyone knows of anything.

I am hoping the 2hr rocking session is just until she gets out of the habit of nursing every few hours. It seemed to work last night in that she slept the 2nd half of the night without waking (after nursing at 1am).
If the 2hr rocking sessions continue past a few days I intend to just go back to normal and nurse her back to sleep every few hours - don't want to continue if its not working!

[corysmilk]

I never knew how many times my babies woke up at night, I asume every 2 hours. I would barley wake and they would nurse and off to sleep we would go.
I don't have any "research" about if 10 month olds need more nursing at night. but the mama in me is thinking that if she wakes up she needs it.
my 10 month baby never eat as much as yours, mostly just breastfeeding and fingerfoods. the first year(s) of nursing are so important, I wanted my baby to get as much of the good stuff as posable. thats just me I guess!!

I understand wanting to get more sleep. BTDT
I hope whatever you do works for you and your family

[mamaofthree]

i don't know of any research.
i am wondering if she slept that longer stretch because she was up that long stretch? i am going to guess she still takes at least one nap. maybe she needs to be put to bed later? just an idea.
BUT if it is working for you, then keep doing it. i would think it might take a couple days for her to adjust, but hopefully it won't be too bad.
she might have a time where she starts waking up again often when she has a growth spurt. which seem to happen every three months. lol

h

[Birdie B.]

Originally Posted by MeepyCat

I agree with the bedtime snack suggestion.

I don't think it's unreasonable for a 10 month old to go a five hour stretch without eating at night, but if she's used to every two hours, you do have some rocky patches to go through to get there. That may mean that, yes, for a week or so, you are up and rocking her for two hours in the middle of the night, offering crackers and water and doing what you can to get her back to sleep without nursing her. This is an emotionally tough time for both of you, and it can be hard to stick with the resolution not to give in and offer the breast. If you think this is the right time, stick with it and it will get better.

I agree with this. I think 10 months is plenty old to sleep a decent amount at night. It's hard though, because it's a time of so much growth and learning new skills, that can wreak havoc on their sleep habits.

[jmmom]

I have to agree with the mama who said that this is too young. I don't think you should make a baby cry when he needs to nurse - instead of nursing, that is - until he is much older and more verbal. Even then, I never made my baby cry. Talking about him "needing some time to get used to it" etc is just a nice way of saying that he cried for x amount of time, and it's not usually what is encouraged on this forum. In my experience, and from everything that I've read about other mama's experience here, babies go through a period at around 12 months where they wake more frequently to nurse. Especially if it isn't too bothersome to you, I would just nurse through it. He needs the breastmilk often at night during this stage - your milk is fattier at night, and your hormone levels for producing milk are higher, so there is a reason your babe is asking to nurse at night. It's natural, normal, and what his body is telling him to do. From what you've said, he's not waking to play, just to nurse. Let him nurse. 5 hours without nursing is a long time for a baby that little. And I wouldn't substitute food for breastmilk - it actually is less dense, and that could backfire on you and make him hungrier for breastmilk later. The only thing I would try is offering much more nursing during the day, especially in the evening. My 6 mo nurses very frequently from 7-10pm, then usually sleeps until around 5am (although I expect the normal sleep regressions to occur over the next year or so). The frequent nursing has a lot to do with why he sleeps so well.
Please, please, please don't make your 10mo cry for a nurse - that breaks my heart, he's just too young. If you knew how few concepts he has...he doesn't understand what is happening, just that he's hungry and you won't feed him!

[hakeber]

FWIW, I know babies CAN sleep for much longer than 5 hours at that age and still thrive well, but if the baby is waking up there is probably a reason for it and I have to agree with the PP, why rock and and pat and listen to the angry crying when you can just nurse and be done, and if it's because YOU don't want to do it, why not have your partner give a bottle of ebm? I could see if your DC was waking to play, but he just wants to nurse, right? I don't get it.

Of course take what I have to say with a grain of salt. My 10 week old sleeps for 7 hour stretches already if I don't wake her up and make her eat, sometimes to no avail, and by that age with DS the only time he woke frequently was when he was teehing or sick. I don't know what it's like to get woken up half way through every sleep cycle for almost a year or longer.

Reasons for waking might be that he is teething and needs to suck for comfort and the extra calories and anti-bodies to help fight infection while his immune system is down. Or he may be in a growth spurt and need the extra feedings, or he may just need more food. 5 times a day seems like VERY few feedings for a 10 month old, even one who eats as many solids as yours does. I second Mama-z's advice to feed more often, and as you get closer to bedtime offer the breast more and more frequently. As Jmmom points out your milk is fattier at night and there is a reason for that. The more fatty milk you can get in him before bed the longer he is likely to last on that final feeding. When ds was that age, teething and illness aside, he would sleep 10-12 hour stretches but he nursed upwards of 10 times in the day and was also eating solids. It was right before he was about to take off walking, too, which caused a major interruption in his blissful sleeping patterns. Too much to see and do to settle down at night.

7pm may also be too early a bed time for him. Perhaps try two shorter 1.5 hour naps spaced at 11am and 3pm and then push bedtime back to 8 or 9pm so that he's a little more tired from the get go? Not that I know a thing about your napping schedule, just a thought.

I think rather than deny him BM at night, maybe think of other ways to help him sleep through the need to feed so often during the sleeping hours, and if those don't work look for other causes. Go back to the sleep aids that helped him as a wee one, white noise, swaddling even, or maybe a cuddly toy. I think it was around this age that DS really wanted to sleep with his favorite toy, and he still needs him to sleep. If you think it is the smell of your milk that is waking him up in the first place, at times that he might not otherwise wake up, try sleeping with your partner between you and the baby instead.

If your goal is extending the stretches of sleep, I just don't think rocking him back to sleep is going to help with that goal. Because at the moment the message you are sending (and maybe this is the message you WANT to send, que se yo?) is "At random mommy will or will not meet my food needs and only she gets to decide when she wants to feed me after the sun goes down." Because he doesn't get the concept of time yet, so I think it will be confusing.

So yeah, I DO think a baby of 10 months CAN sleep for 5 hour stretches or longer, but if they don't I don't understand this technique of dealing with it.

[Altair]

I felt quite confident that after an entire year of sacrificing my sanity, working split shifts with my partner to avoid childcare and nursing round the clock and pumping at work... I was ready to nightwean and sleep more. Parenting and family life is a *balancing act* and mom's needs are important too.

The entire process has been so much easier than I ever imagined it would be. I simply don't have the ability anymore to survive and work FT and then parent alone the rest of the time on no sleep. Nightweaning was an extremely good move on my part. The boy is more rested, happy, and doesn't go through all those screaming fits all night long he used to around nursing. Nightweaning has resulted in a lot *less* crying on his part in the night. He was in the habit before of fighting sleep in the middle of the night after a few wakeups, now he just rolls over and goes back to sleep every time. He nurses a lot during the day and his naps have even been better. From watching friends of mine, I started to think that the all night nursing at 2-3 years old habit was just not something that made anyone happy. At 12 months my son was very receptive to the Dr Jay Gordon plan with some NCSS thrown in.

I don't think any mom should feel any guilt for nightweaning at 12 months, or reducing night nursings a little leading up to that. Mothering and nursing is HARD WORK and to make someone feel bad for her year of self sacrifice is silly.

In cases like this I'd say "wow, good for you still nursing/co-sleeping at 10 months."

OP-- yes I did post about what we did, maybe on some level you heard it! Ha on the paci trick.

[hakeber]

Originally Posted by Altair

In cases like this I'd say "wow, good for you still nursing/co-sleeping at 10 months."

FWIW, I totally agree. Like I said my dd has never been a night eater, and ds STTN at 3 months, so I have no real frame of reference for how this night weaning thing works...I'm just saying, once the baby IS awake anyway...

Just perhaps it makes more sense to help the baby STTN in the first place rather than deny them the thing they woke up for. Ya know? Once the kid is up your sleep is being interrupted anyway, right?

At 10 Mo DS still needed wicked loud white noise and occassionally, during teething spells, or other sleep regression moments, to be swaddled or to have a cuddly toy. The idea being to stop him from waking up enough to cry out for food in the first place.


It's not that I think night weaning is a bad idea. I really don't think the average 10 mo should be waking every two hours to eat. That to me would be a sign that something is wrong with my kid. That's my frame of reference, So I think if you invest your energy on prevention of waking you'll be more successful in your ultimate goal which is to get more sleep for mama.

[nola79]

I don't think it is unreasonable at all. Sounds like she is a good eater during the day, I think 2 night feedings is plenty.

[Louisep]

Just wanted to say that partially night weaning (or cutting down on feeds) might not prevent the wakings. My DS woke every 1-2 hours between 5 and 12 months and cutting out feeds made no difference. For me, breastfeeding at wakings was easier than the alternative or rocking, patting, shushing.