nightweaning options

[Caterina]

Here's a quick synopsis of where we're at:
DD (17.5 mo) slept in our bed and nursed on demand until about 6 months, then we started putting her down in a crib in our room for naps and until I went to bed, then she'd come into bed with us and nurse as much as she wanted all night, usually 8-10 times. Around 12 months, this became all night - and I couldn't take the stimulation and the wiggling as she changed positions attached to me. She'd cry and wake up if I tried to disengage. We tried to nightwean using the Jay Gordon method at about 13 months, but abandoned it around night 4 as she was obviously not ready. So, I started nursing her in a chair and then putting her back in her crib, bringing her in to bed at around 5:30 for a 2 hour nurse-a-thon. Once she was in the crib, we realized that we were waking her up by turning over etc. and after some trial and error, moved her to her own room down the hall. We are all sleeping a little better now. But she's still waking up 3-5 times a night and wanting to nurse at all wakings...

My DH has had a super flexible work schedule, but is starting a contract for the next 5 months with 60-70 hours/week. We are both going to need to be a lot more rested than we are right now - him for a stressful detailed job, and me to mostly solo-parent an active toddler and work part-time. My wonderful, supportive MIL has offered to help us nightwean or support us in whatever way we want her too while we try to make changes. DD loves her and spends lots of time with her. Unfortunately, DH can't be part of any plan, as he needs to sleep well in order to do his job well.
So, I'd love your varied and wise experienced opinions on how best to do this. These are some thoughts I've had/suggestions made by others:

a) MIL comes over for several nights, attending to DD when she wakes after 11pm. DH and I sleep at a friends' nearby and come home by 6am. How many nights do you think this would take? Just to give her an idea of what she's in for.

b) I do nightweaning plan a la Jay Gordon (10+ nights) with MIL spelling me off for a couple of hours in the day to nap. Will DD take comfort from me without it being nursing? Will I be able to be strong alone and not nurse her if she's really begging for it?

c) MIL and I take the nights together. DH sleeps at the friends'.

Please help me figure out what the best way to approach this is.

[JanineRivera]

Well, here is my two cents ... I would not do a) I think that would be very traumatic for everyone. I would do b) with the idea that if it does not work after a week or two that I could go to plan c).

Also, I think that it may be worth it for your husband to be involved in this even though he works because he is the other parent and will need to be there a long the way as sleep ebbs and flows. It could be that baby will sleep perfectly well for Daddy if you give it the chance.

I am sorry if this is blunt but Daddy needs to be available to parent at any time day or night whether or not he works full time. You work full-time too either at home or out of the home and you are making yourself available. Talk with Daddy again about making a plan together.

It is great that MIL is so willing to help but you and your husband need to be a team.

I really hope this does not come across as pushy or harsh ... it is just a thought really. And I know that all families are different and in the end you have to do what is right for you and yours.

Best of luck,
Janine

[Caterina]

Maybe I should have been more clear. DH has been a super supportive parent, both day and night, and has been totally available for any and all night wakings up to now. With his return to working in this way, we're realizing that the way we have been parenting, with both of us waking for all the night wakings, and spelling each other off for sleep ins and naps is not going to work anymore. I didn't mean that DH would not continue to be a very present and attached parent because he's going back to work, just that I don't want him to be the primary nightweaning parent. So many of my friends who have nightweaned ended up relying on the dad to be the primary caregiver at night while the baby got used to not nursing, and we can't have that in this situation.

Has anyone tried to bring in grandma or another close loved one in the nightweaning journey? If so, how did it go?

Has anyone tried another gentle method other than Jay Gordon's plan? How did it work for you?

I guess I'm just looking for ideas so I can cobble together a plan that involves mostly me and MIL, with DH as support, that will work for our family.

[Kiwiontheloose]

I have no answers for you but I'll watch this thread - we are currently trying a modified version of Jay Gordons method (trying for a 5hr stint of sleep) with our 10.5month old.

Hope you find some answers.

[JanineRivera]

Hi Caterina,

I just wanted to apologize; after reading my post I felt sad that it sounded so harsh with too many "shoulds" and that is not at all how I wanted to come across. I know that this decision is very difficult and I too had a hard time deciding how and when to night wean and it just happened to be the involvement of daddy that helped it go smoothly. I do hope that you find a solution that works for you!

With regret,
Janine

[pianojazzgirl]

Ok, take this with a grain of salt, because with us our ds was older (approaching 2.5 yrs old) but what helped cut down the night nursings (and could have probably cut them out entirely if dh was more "on the ball") was to have dh and ds sleep in the guest bed while I stayed in the master bedroom. Why I say that it might have been even more successful had dh been "on the ball" was because after a certain point dh would fall into such a deep sleep that ds would just get out of bed (unbeknownst to dh) and come back to bed with me.

The other thing I wanted to say was... it's not ideal, but it's perfectly possible to wake 3-5 times (or more!) per night and be perfectly functional the next day. I did it for over 2 years! However, I was co-sleeping with ds so night nursing just meant rolling over and giving him the breast, as opposed to going to a different room, getting him out of a crib, etc.

[mtbmomma]

I have been night weaning my 16 month old dd for the past month. What I did was all through the day talk about how we will no longer be nursing at night, and only in the morning when the sun comes up and the rooster crows. I make sure to tell her this over and over during our last nursing session at bedtime too.
When she wakes in the night I am the one who goes to her and tell her nursing is going na nights, we will do more nursing in the morning. Then I ask her if she wants snuggles or for mommy to sing her a song. Usually she goes for both. I sit on the floor next to her bed ( a toddler mattress on the floor) and hold her in a nursing position and sort of sway while I sing to her. She will fall asleep this way in usually less time than it takes for her to fall asleep nursing. (just a note, make sure you are wearing a shirt when you go to get her, so nursing isn't available).
With this method we cut her frequent nursings down to one wake up at 3am, and then again at 5, when I usually give in and nurse her, though not always.

good luck

[Caterina]

Thanks for the replies. Janine, everyone finds ways that work for them, and for you, dad was the way to go, as it has been for most of my real-life friends. In our case, that's not ideal, so I'm looking for other ways to go. I appreciate you sharing your experience!

mtbmomma, thank you so much. This kind of detail is just what I was looking for. To know that it's possible to comfort in the night without nursing gives me hope. My DD is really understanding a lot these days and I think the endless repetition that nursing is for the day time, and the choice of singing or cuddles (or both) are great ideas. I'm going to start on them asap, and see how it goes.

And pianojazzgirl - I felt fairly functional even with 5-8 + wakings when we were co-sleeping too. I never imagined that we wouldn't be co-sleeping already (she's only 17.5 months!) but it really wasn't working for us anymore and this is much better. And btw, I love your kids' names.

[porcelina]

My DS, now 27 months, nursed every 2 hours, cosleeping, up until recently. We tried night nursing at about 15 months, 18 months, and 21-22 months. We tried the Gordon method at 15, I think we did Gordon but cold turkey to no nursing at 18 because I couldn't take it anymore one night, and then at 21 we first did something where I pretended to be asleep and he had to go back down with dad, which gave some results, but didn't teach him he couldn't nurse, just that he couldn't if I was "asleep". Then went to cold turkey no nursing again (until 4:00 cutoff). During almost each of these efforts, we quit after about 3-4 nights of no nursing during the key hours. Each waking lasted 2-3 hours before he would fall asleep, and his spell asleep would only last one hour. We were all exhausted and he was clearly not ready. We only started trying again at about 26 months. This time, things went much more smoothly. We talked to him (as before) and told him that when he wakes up at night, he has to go back to sleep. When he would wake up, we told him the same thing. I would rock him a bit in bed, and we would tell him stories to distract him from his crying and help him sleep again. My partner and I did this together. We finally accomplished that he postpone his nursing session until 4.00 am. Even still, he wants to nurse now about 3 times between then and when he wakes up for the day!

All this is to say, some little ones just take a long time to adjust, and some need to develop the maturity to handle such changes. My DS couldn't handle it until recently, and even then, we are luckly to get an 8 hour stretch out of him. He has never slept through the night. Some may still wake up 3-5 times even if they are not nursing back to sleep during these wakings. It is great that your MIL is willing to help.

The people who I know that have used the Gordon plan with success have actually extended each phase to about a week or even more, only moving on to the next step when they felt their child was ready (instead of in 10 days). They also only had the cutoff until about 4 or 5 am, so that DC would nurse once and then sleep a bit more before waking up for the day. People have also mentioned preparing them for it a lot by talking about it during the day (they get more than you realize, though this probably is even more effect after about 24 months). Some little ones apparently respond to things like num nums needs to get more sleep, or needs to make more milk overnight, or whatever (this never worked with my little one, just made him more mad and frustrated).

The bottom line with whatever you do, though is consistency! Don't "give in" on whatever plan you choose until you've given it a fair chance.

Good luck!

[LuluMama8]

Caterina, I'm sorry I have no good ideas for you but it sounds like mtbmomma's method might work for you if you want to try something a little gentler, where the MIL approach might produce faster results but be a little harder on DD.

Kiwiontheloose, I am wondering how your modified Gordon plan is going for your little one. I have a DD also 10.5 and I'm thinking of trying the same thing.

Hugs to all the sleepy mamas out there!