Charting to Avoid/Fertility Awareness, April 2010 - Page 2

[jeninejessica]

Smokering: I also like the look of FF. Whether or not I agree with their interpretations... I find it the easiest chart to read.

Also, I am 100% sure that if we ever end up with an 'oops' baby, it will be because of complete 'user error' and deciding not to use backup when we know we should... not because of dtd on a 'safe' day and ending up pregnant anyways. I have a feeling, from what I've seen anyways, that that seems to be the case with most charting babies. I suppose it's difficult because our bodies are designed to get emotional and wanting around that part of the cycle. So where we know intellectually that we're not safe and should abstain/use backup, your hormones yell at you "Do it anyways!!!"

[MarineWife]

Originally Posted by Smokering

For all those who did get pregnant accidentally while charting, what caused it? Was it a simple case of ignoring the signs and DTD anyway, or did your chart fool you?

Both times I got pg were obvious user error. First, I wasn't really CTA. I chart so I can know when to expect because my cycles are irregular. DH said he wanted to avoid. We chose withdrawal as our form of bc. Both times he didn't even attempt to withdraw so I got pg. Every cycle he has withdrawn when needed I did not get pg.

[BarefootScientist]

Originally Posted by Smokering

ETA: Also, and I don't mean to sound paranoid, but... For all those who did get pregnant accidentally while charting, what caused it? Was it a simple case of ignoring the signs and DTD anyway, or did your chart fool you?

I like to use the excuse that it was a weird cycle, but really, what caused it is that I didn't follow the rules. You NEED to follow the rules. I had one day of watery followed by a couple dry days with no temp shift, and since I had had several cycles before that where I had not ovulated until much later (my body was still adjusting from the Pill) I thought I wasn't going to O, especially after only one day of watery. So we DTD unprotected well before the four days of dry-up were over. And then I got the temp shift and I was like....oops.

So, total user error. And for what is' worth, since I've been posting on this thread, I have not seen a FAM method error. I don't think. Does anyone recall one? There have been a couple condom method failures (as in, they did everything right according to FAM but used condoms during the fertile phase, didn't notice any condom issues or breakage but wound up pregnant). But other than that, all pregnancies that I have seen have been from people not following the rules/cheating.

I have seen a couple cases (had one myself last month) where the chart could have "fooled you" as you mentioned - if you wanted to cheat a little. But in those cases you just have to still follow the rules and be conservative. If you don't have the full thermal shift, you can't DTD unprotected...etc. Most of us do cheat a little now and then but we are taking a risk...it just depends on how much you would welcome an oops.

[wholewheatchick]

Hm...we really are going to have start following the rules closely! We've been totally winging it and not really caring/doing anything to prevent, so I probably need to re read that section of TCOYF and brush up on that. Thank goodness for a significant thermal shift this time that I caught, because my CF has been all wacky. http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/277407 I mean, that is a real thermal shift, right? For the past 11 months, anything above 97.5 has ALWAYS been post-O temps.

[MovingMomma]

Originally Posted by wholewheatchick

I mean, that is a real thermal shift, right?

Probably, but I'd put O one day later & technically you don't have 6 pre-shift temps.

[dex_millie]

Question about checking my cervix

Hi all,

I have been bad at taking my thep after my 7th straight day of elavated temp.. so I should be safe since the 3rd, but I need to start up again..my children have misplaced 2 of my thermometers I need to hide it in my pillow case.

Question
Anyway I decided to try and check my cervix one morning. I did notice it was firm and I guess closed(never felt it open) it was also tilted like more to the left side, so it wasn't centered. I am thinking this is normal..but just wanted to check and confirm.


oh..and how do I get the chart symbol to hold the url for my charting site.
TIA

[lyterae]

Originally Posted by Smokering

ETA: Also, and I don't mean to sound paranoid, but... For all those who did get pregnant accidentally while charting, what caused it? Was it a simple case of ignoring the signs and DTD anyway, or did your chart fool you? SIL got pregnant on the Billings method, and I offered to lend her TCOYF so she could learn to temp too, but she'd read that temping was more confusing than otherwise and wasn't interested. I... disagree strongly, myself, but it's her call!

We were being dumb and not ignoring fertility signs, to rationalize it we pulled the "I've never ovulated before "x" day" logic. Which I hadn't... I did that cycle though (I O'd 7 days earlier than "normal"). Now granted I did not have any egg-white CM that I noticed that day, I had plenty the next day though. We just figure God really intended that B join our family.

[MarineWife]

Emily ~ I agree with Shannon. It does look like you may have Oed. I'd put your O day one day later. Technically, though, you don't have the 6 pre-O temps to definitively confirm O.

dx ~ Yes, it's normal for the cervix to tilt one way or another and not be in the same position next time you check. And, btw, TCOYF says that once you get the 3 consecutive high temps that definitively confirm O, you can stop temping. I did that once when I hadn't really Oed and ended up with a lot of missing pre-O temps but that was my fault. I shouldn't have been so confident about my thermal shift since I had started a new medication right before my temp rise.

Cass ~ Guess that goes to show that you don't need ewcf to get pg. Any CF other than your BIP (which is usually dry/dry but can be sticky/sticky) is potentially fertile.

If I'm remembering correctly, I think there was someone who got pg about a year ago who claimed method failure. I disagreed. I can't remember the specifics now.

[BarefootScientist]

Originally Posted by MarineWife

If I'm remembering correctly, I think there was someone who got pg about a year ago who claimed method failure. I disagreed. I can't remember the specifics now.

Wasn't it that she had also had sex during the fertile time using a condom? So it could have been method failure but it was more likely condom failure and there was really no way to tell? Or I could be thinking of someone else.

[MovingMomma]

Originally Posted by BarefootScientist

Wasn't it that she had also had sex during the fertile time using a condom? So it could have been method failure but it was more likely condom failure and there was really no way to tell? Or I could be thinking of someone else.

Oh, yes, I remember that! Technically, though, sex during the fertile stage w/a condom is within the rules for FAM, right? So would that situation be a FAM method failure but an NFP user failure? I'd still blame the condom if it were me.

[wholewheatchick]

Originally Posted by MovingMomma

Oh, yes, I remember that! Technically, though, sex during the fertile stage w/a condom is within the rules for FAM, right? So would that situation be a FAM method failure but an NFP user failure? I'd still blame the condom if it were me.

If I remember correctly from TCOYF, she says that using backup is then not using FAM to avoid pregnancy...I think. I loaned my book so I don't remember. But because then, you are relying on the condom, not your awarenes of your fertility, to prevent getting pregnant. Does that make sense? I would call it condom method failure if she knew she was fertile when they used it.

[MarineWife]

Originally Posted by MovingMomma

Oh, yes, I remember that! Technically, though, sex during the fertile stage w/a condom is within the rules for FAM, right? So would that situation be a FAM method failure but an NFP user failure? I'd still blame the condom if it were me.

FAM does allow for using w/d or barrier methods rather than abstaining but then the method and failure rates that apply are those for the method used during the fertile window. It's kind of confusing. If you look at the stats in TCOYF, FAM/NFP stats are together, I believe. So that would be condom method failure.

I don't think it was a possible condom failure. I remember that one, too. I think it was that the rules weren't fully understood and followed properly. I just can't remember if it was from thinking she wasn't fertile yet because it was too early and/or she didn't think her cf was wet enough, like maybe dtd unprotected on a sticky or creamy day, or if she decided she had Oed without waiting for definitive confirmation and then realized she hadn't Oed.

[Smokering]

This is all fascinating. I love how you ladies are so calm about it all. "Oh yeah, unplanned pregnancy, oops!" I'm the type to obsess over, well, everything, and while an unplanned pregnancy wouldn't be an absolute unmitigated dire disaster, I'd be considerably upheaved by it (as it were). I do admire people who just roll with the punches, though, I really do... sometimes I wonder if I'll ever be able to actually go through with planning another pregnancy, now that I know what pregnancy and birth entails. I mean, I'm on board with having more kids in theory, but when it actually comes down to seeing EWCM and DTD, knowing that this may usher in morning sickness and pelvic girdle pain and nosy questions and pre-eclampsia and (gasp!) being a mother of two, I'm not sure I could actually do it.

OK, that was a tad downbeat. I guess I still have some birth trauma issues to work through. Now if only DD would stop going ridiculously clucky every time she saw a baby, prompting complete strangers to say "O-ho, she needs a little brother, nudge nudge wink wink"...

In short, we'll be conservative about FAM rules.

ETA: Yes, DTD during the fertile time with a condom counts as a condom failure. If you chose to use, say, meditation as a form of birth control during that period, people would call it a meditation failure (well, a brain failure of some kind!) rather than an FAM failure. Same deal with condoms, which is not to compare their efficacy to meditation, but you get the point!

[OSUvet]

Just posting because I got my crosshairs today and wanted to share my chart.

Can't comment on the user vs FAM method failure since I've never been pg and only off bc these 2 months, but given my track record of following the rules so far, it would most definitely be user error in my case! In my defense, this month DH was very clear that it was my fertile time and understands the chart. He chose to ignore that and I was not going to protest We did have a conversation about not really wanting a Christmas baby but...well we will see!

ETA: Thanks for adding my chart to the front page!

[BarefootScientist]

Beautiful shift, OSUvet.

Yes, as Smokering said, even though FAM allows you to use condoms or whatever during the fertile phase, if you choose to do so, you are no longer relying on FAM but on the condom for that act of intercourse. So if you get pregnant from that intercourse, it's a condom failure. Of course, this gets really tricky to interpret because most people have sex more times than once a month. So if you use condoms only some of the time it's going to be pretty much impossible to tease out whether it was a FAM or a condom method failure, etc. That's why there are no stats on the effectiveness of FAM, only NFP. If you use FAM and abstain, your effectiveness will be pretty much equal to that of NFP, but if you use FAM and DTD as usual during your fertile phase, just using a barrier, your effectiveness will be equal to that of the barrier.

Since the failure rate of condoms even with perfect use is...what...3% and with typical use is more like 15%, I'm more inclined to think that if a couple has several acts of protected intercourse with a condom during the fertile phase and no "iffy" unprotected acts, then it is a condom failure, not a FAM method failure. But we really can't know for sure.

My temps are still all over the place, but it is early in the cycle yet. My chart.

[dealic]

Well I am officially on cycle 2 now. After a hectic first month with a close call that inspired me to chart for real now instead of flitting around with the rules, I had an epiphany moment late in my cycle. Just days before my expected period, my temperature dropped. I knew I wasn't pregnant. And it felt so empowering to know my body that well.

Now granted, I know it wasn't for sure because my chart for the first month wasn't complete etc etc. But it was more the idea that I COULD know my body that well that was so impressive. It stopped my usual pre-period panic/excitement about the possibility of an oops that we really can't afford to have, and I just calmly waited for it to start. Wow.

On to month 2 and hopefully a more filled out chart with better accuracy!

[BarefootScientist]

Originally Posted by dealic

I had an epiphany moment late in my cycle. Just days before my expected period, my temperature dropped. I knew I wasn't pregnant. And it felt so empowering to know my body that well.

Isn't it great?

[readytobedone]

Originally Posted by Smokering

I love how you ladies are so calm about it all. "Oh yeah, unplanned pregnancy, oops!" I'm the type to obsess over, well, everything, and while an unplanned pregnancy wouldn't be an absolute unmitigated dire disaster, I'd be considerably upheaved by it (as it were). I do admire people who just roll with the punches, though, I really do... sometimes I wonder if I'll ever be able to actually go through with planning another pregnancy, now that I know what pregnancy and birth entails.

I feel exactly the same way. An accidental pg scares me, but an intentional one seems impossible to choose after knowing what pregnancy/birth/motherhood REALLY entails! I guess this is why they say 'ignorance is bliss'

ETA: My temp dropped this morning at 11 DPO and now I'm just waiting for AF to show up. Everything seems good!

[nerdymom]

Originally Posted by dex_millie

oh..and how do I get the chart symbol to hold the url for my charting site.
TIA

Can't answer your other questions but I can yell you how to do this one. Input the code for the smilie (: seechart or : 2seechart without the spaces), highlight the code with your mouse, click on the link button above, and enter the link to your chart. Voila!

So we are breaking the "rules" by using a condom on fertile days? That's too bad, I don't think I can abstain though. I have needs. And those needs get needier during my fertile days.

Also, by my understanding of the rules, I would have drawn my coverline higher, around 97.1, instead of where ff put it. But I'm still really new at this, and probably wouldn't even question ff except that I have heard there is some debate as to it's accuracy.

[kcroto42]

Originally Posted by nerdymom

So we are breaking the "rules" by using a condom on fertile days? That's too bad, I don't think I can abstain though. I have needs. And those needs get needier during my fertile days.

I don't think it's so much that you're "breaking" the rules as using a different set of rules, if you see what I mean. If you were 100% relying on FAM, you would have to abstain on fertile days. If you don't want to do that (and I agree with you!) you rely on a different set of rules to DTD on fertile days. You rely on condoms; I rely on my husband to w/d. If we're doing that on a potentially fertile day, we're not relying on FAM to keep us from getting pregnant. However, when I have sex 4 dpo and know that DH doesn't need to w/d, I am relying on FAM to have given me sufficient information to correctly interpret my body signs and know that I can have sex safely without a chance of pg. If I then get pregnant, it would be failure of FAM, because that was the only thing I was relying on to keep me from being pg.

Got crosshairs today. I was a tiny bit surprised, just because -- I don't know, I haven't really been *feeling* it this cycle, if that makes any sense. My CF was pretty much the same the entire time I had any, but I have had a dry up now, and it looks to me like I had a temp shift. The temp that is discarded is because I'd only gotten sleep in two hour blocks, plus I temped like an hour and a half off from when I should. I figured that made it inaccurate enough to get rid off. Everybody agree?