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DD and "best friend" fighting constantly--need advice

post #1 of 14
Thread Starter 
DD's best friend is a boy who goes to K with her and whose mom is one of my best friends. They are actually very different kids: DD loves books and drawing and has no interest in sports, and the other boy loves sports and science and has no interest in books or drawing. Most of their friendship has been based on silly play or pretend play. They have at times seemed to have crushes on each other.

They have always squabbled sometimes, but recently it's gotten really bad. Mostly, they argue with each other over facts--what kinds of clouds are those? What is that plant called? What is 10 times 100? Or even just random stuff, like arguing about what some other kid was wearing or said in class that day. Both of them like to be right, and they will just go around and around. They also both seem very quick to take offense from the other--"She keeps telling me that and I ALREADY KNOW THAT!" (That one is huge.) There is also a lot of "He/she won't play what I want to play." They will also fight over who gets to go first, etc. The friendship seems to have a lot of competition to it.

I have generally had a policy of not intervening and letting them work it out, but recently they just seem unable to do this. They escalate into yelling at each other (never anything physical) and the other boy has been asking to leave playdates early. Despite this, they both say they want to continue playdates.

They do spend a lot of time together--all day in K, and then they have two playdates a week in the afternoons (his mom and I have arranged this for various reasons). Maybe they are just together too much, but this is not a new arrangement, and it used to be fine. Perhaps they are just growing apart. I'm not sure.

Any ideas to help them work it out better? Problem-solving techniques? Ways to snap them out of the negative groove? Maybe there are some cooperative games or exercises I could try with them?

Not sure if this matters, and I hope I do not sound obnoxious here, but DD is somewhat ahead of the other kid when it comes to academic stuff. He is a very bright kid and knows a lot about many subjects, but in many/most of the arguments they have about facts, she is right and he is wrong. (I do not usually tell them who is right, though I will confirm or deny if they ask me--they usually don't.) She also is a fluent reader, while he is not reading yet, and this is something that seems to come up between them. She is also a good artist, and he seems to have some fine motor delays (I don't really think this one is an issue, but it might be, I guess...they do compare drawings sometimes). It's possible that he feels a little insecure. However, there is some balance here, because the other boy is very coordinated and athletic and DD is not, and is aware of her lesser ability and a bit jealous of his. I do not feel like DD is being especially obnoxious or superior about this stuff--but as I said earlier, she wants to be right (and so does he). The need to be right/desire to correct is something we continue to work on with her at home, but she is not an inherently competitive child. She usually does not care if she loses a game, for instance (whereas the other boy cares fiercely).
post #2 of 14
I mind a 5yo a couple days a week and these things come up with him and my 4yo. For the "I already KNOW THATs" I have taught them/told them that while it may be true that they do already know it, the polite thing to say is just "yes". I explained that they tell me things I already know but I want to be polite so I say "yes". They understand that. It has helped a lot.

For the needing to be right I'm a bit lucky in that my DD will just let the other child be "right" even when she knows they are wrong. She'll try once or twice and then just let it go. When she talks with ME, though, she does have a need to be right and what usually diffuses it is if I say "you think X and I think Y - we disagree" and/or "we'll agree to disagree".

HTH

Tjej
post #3 of 14
My dd has a relationship with one of her friends that was like this one (including the academic part). I don't think had anything to do with it at all. They both like to be right no matter what and if they decide they are right they will argue until they are tired of arguing. Kids sometimes fight when they get together a lot. My dd didn't want to stop having play dates with her friend, but it got to a point where I believed that they needed a break so I stopped the play dates for a few weeks. After the first two weeks my dd felt so much happier to not be playing with him so often. They only have playdates a couple times a month now and they have a much nicer relationship now.
post #4 of 14
Thread Starter 
Quote:
I have taught them/told them that while it may be true that they do already know it, the polite thing to say is just "yes". I explained that they tell me things I already know but I want to be polite so I say "yes".
I will try this. Thanks.

Quote:
When she talks with ME, though, she does have a need to be right and what usually diffuses it is if I say "you think X and I think Y - we disagree" and/or "we'll agree to disagree".
I have suggested that they "agree to disagree," but they did not go for it! Maybe I will try some more of our family's standard line, which is "We have different ideas about that."

Quote:
They only have playdates a couple times a month now and they have a much nicer relationship now.
Hmmmmmmm. I do really wonder if this is what needs to happen, but I watch the other child in barter to his mom for other stuff. They will be apart a lot more this summer, and I guess we will see what happens after that.
post #5 of 14
Read through this quickly, but have you mentioned anything to the other mom?

I'd want to know if it also happens at the boy's home and if the other mom has intervened, and what the results have been. I'm not sure if it's necessary to reduce the number of playdates at this point, but you definitely want to make sure that how you are handling the disputes is the same way as she is for consistency.

I generally agree that kids should be allowed to work things through without intervention if they are quiet about it (no screaming) and that neither party is always getting the short end of the stick by feeling like they need to give in in order to keep the peace. No name calling or physical violence, and other general manners apply, of course.

I think that if your dd and her friend have spent a lot of time together, they have probably developed a deeper relationship - almost sibling-like - and sometimes that means more heated arguments, but no love is lost between them. Just something to consider. I don't like that the boy wants to leave early, though. That would concern me a bit that he feels that he needs to bail. With my kids, each knows that if things escalate that they can always go to their rooms to cool off and regroup. Maybe the boy needs to have a place to go to at your house as well?
post #6 of 14
Thread Starter 
Yes, the other mom and I have talked and she is really open to whatever. She does not usually watch them herself, for various reasons, but when she does, it's the same thing, for sure.

Quote:
I think that if your dd and her friend have spent a lot of time together, they have probably developed a deeper relationship - almost sibling-like - and sometimes that means more heated arguments, but no love is lost between them.
I have wondered about this, and in some ways I do think this is part of it. We joke that they are like an old married couple sniping back and forth. I don't have much experience with a sib relationship of this sort--DS is too young for him to be like this with her, and my own brothers were a lot older so we weren't like that either--but I think it is somewhat sib-like. Like you, though, I'm concerned that the other child has wanted to go home. I might mention that this has only happened twice, but it's been twice in a row.

I will suggest that they can play apart if need be, but I bet they will say they don't want to--or, possibly, the boy will want to separate and DD will not. Yeah, actually, I suspect that it's possible the boy is growing apart from DD more than she is from her. I think he wants to do "boy stuff" at school and DD wants to play their old games.
post #7 of 14
i was reading your post with a smile on my face because it so reminds me of dd and her bf. they have both known each other since they were 6 months old and they are both onlies and they both consider each other their sibling. we even do some holidays like xmas together. they are both 7 1/2 now.

his mom and i do say how much tehy sound like an old married couple.

i notice that in their case they go thru periods of hard time. they both go to school together and play at recess together usually. when they are going thru their 'physical or intellectual' growth spurt there is a lot of intensity and suddenly one has to be right (and the other is just devastated that the other one doesnt believe them) or one has to follow exactly teh same way the other child does it.

during those times it is a love hate relationship. they cant not see each other yet together they fight or intensely sad. the only thing that works outdoors. during those times it has to be outdoor time. not in the house. they do much better with outdoor play. they have to see each other every week or they miss each other very much. when we were away for a month and a half when they were 3, they called each other over the phone. it was so sweet.

that was also a 5- 6 year old thing and i notice that's how old your dd is. so its an age stage thing i feel too. i havent seen them be that bad any more. second grade they suddenly mature in a huge huge way - yet v. subtle so i cant really tell you what exactly changes. they just mature. i remember my dd who has anxiety was so scared at the start of K and first but not so much for the second. now they are even more like old married couple. its a hoot to hear them talk. they argue amongst themselves with no melt downs and they solve it amongst themselves.

they are both on the same 'smart' strenght but their personalities are v. different. dd is more physical, outgoing gregarious excitable child. bf is more of a puzzles, quiet, wont take the first step kinda guy. he is a avid sportsman - as a reader and collector of statistics. dd is an avid sportsperson too, but she prefers playing and has no idea who the players are leave alone what their stats are. so each of them brings out their 'lacking' personality bits.

we allow them to gang up against the parents so in trying to work out funny silly pranks they get along even more. dd has called my friend mom accidentaly a few time. which has touched my heart so deeply.
post #8 of 14
Maybe you could try having a couple of more structured playdates for a while to break the cycle. Make ice cream comets or something (my kids loved this one). If they are working together towards a goal, they might be more harmonious and you aren't micromanaging.
post #9 of 14
Honestly, I'd separate them for a short time and see if they do better after that. Maybe no playdates with each other for two or three weeks.... then have one and see how it goes.
post #10 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by philomom View Post
Honestly, I'd separate them for a short time and see if they do better after that. Maybe no playdates with each other for two or three weeks.... then have one and see how it goes.
post #11 of 14
I'm not sure that taking a break would really solve any problems. Sure, they may get a break and be really excited to see each other again, but if there's a problem that wasn't worked through it's going to resurface.
post #12 of 14
Thread Starter 
I was thinking about some more structured activities as well. It's a little hard because I also have DS, who is 2 and thinks he's 6 and part of their gang.

Like meemee's DD and her BF, they also do do better outside, usually.
post #13 of 14
I agree that with the amount of time they are spending together, it's more like siblings. How would you handle this stuff if they were both your kids?

Speaking respectfully to family members is a big thing for me. My kids are just a 19 months apart, the younger one is gifted, and the older one had mild sn. Being icky about who can do what or comparing abilities *just doesn't fly* out our house.

It's great to let kids work things out, but we have to give them the skills to do that first.

I'd help them brainstorm some *rules* for when they are together. Explain how you see the problem, have a marker and some paper, and see what they come up with as rules for themselves for Kind Talk.
post #14 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by loraxc View Post
I have wondered about this, and in some ways I do think this is part of it. We joke that they are like an old married couple sniping back and forth.
LOL! I was going to write this exact thing about ds and one of his friends from about the same age. FTR, they are still very close friends, almost a dozen years later. They are talking about taking a gap year trip overseas together next year, after they graduate from high school.

I don't have much advice for you, sorry, other than to guide them in how to negotiate and be respectful to each other, despite disagreements. DS and his friend always managed to sort things out together, but I think they were both raised to separate the argument from the person. In other words, they listened to the other's point of view and didn't get to make counter-arguments attacking the person ("you're stupid!" wasn't tolerated).

If the playdates aren't fun anymore, it may be time for a little separation.
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