Has anyone cured enlarged adenoids without surgery?

[chlobo]

went to the ENT today. He said DS has enlarged adenoids blocking the back of his nose. It's causing sleep disturbances (which we kind of figured). He said that "Some kids just grow adenoids that are too large for their bodies" and the *ONLY* solution is to remove them.

I realize that lots of people have the surgery. I'm just wondering if anyone has successfully avoided it.

[jazzharmony]

We avoided surgery by cutting out dairy. Our 9yo had sleep apnea for a few years and we saw 2 ENTs who recommended surgery when he was 6 and 7 years old. We cut dairy out and the sleep apnea went away. He does snore, like his dad, but no longer has periods of apnea. We have continued to see one of the original ENTs for other issues and he has also recognized that no dairy has brought the size of the adenoid down (there is technically only one adenoid even though people refer to it in the plural) He no longer recommends surgery. This was after both ENTs had immediately dismissed any possible food connection. FWIW, my son tests negative for all allergies.

Are there any potentially inflammation causing foods in your child's diet?

[chlobo]

He is currently gluten, dairy, corn & soy free, as am I (still nursing).

I suppose there is the possibility of other foods. We've had blood & skin prick testing. Not sure where to go from here.

[jazzharmony]

Have you seen a naturopath yet? We tried that and he prescribed some things. I can't remember as it was years ago but it might be worth doing if you have the funds and have access to someone who has experience with sleep apnea.

[moonlight mom]

Yes,
dd's homeopathic doc gave her a remedy that completely solved the problem and I had the surgery scheduled for the follow week.

[chlobo]

we are seeing a naturopath but not for that specifically as it just came up. I have an appointment scheduled for next week to discuss it.

Moonlight, where are you? Wondering if your homeopath might be nearby.

[jazzharmony]

Moonlight mom, what was the remedy your homeopath gave?
Good luck, chlobo.

[moonlight mom]

I'm in connecticut - mystic area. We have a naturpath ped in mystic that does homeopathy and herbs. She is the most amazing doc ever. Got my asthmatic son off meds. Anyway, the bottle she gave me says hist 30c. I gave her 3 drops at night for 2 weeks. I have to repeat dosing when she gets a cold b/c she starts snoring and waking up frequently again. But it works - she also has a constitutional remedy that may also have helped too.

[BethSLP]

chlobo,

how old is your DS? if he's younger than 3, at least try to hold off until he's 3 or older. The reason for this is that when I researched tonsillectomy risks, I found studies showing that children under 3 who go under general anaesthetic are at increased risk of lifelong memory problems. Of course, sometimes that risk is something that must be accepted if the child is truly suffering serious sleep apnea, or needs some other major surgery that cannot be put off. However, in most cases, I think the tonsillectomy isn't an absolute necessity.

did/does your DS have ear infections because of the tonsils? did they do a sleep study or are they just assuming he has sleep disturbances?

my DD has big tonsils. she had chronic ear infections. she also had a sleep study that confirmed a mild hypopnea. I gave her abx a number of times for said ear infections (would not do it again if I have the choice). her gut got out of whack (confirmed with stool tests). we did biocidin (anti fungal anti yeast), a bunch of supplements, and gluten free, dairy free, soy free. we pretty much figured out it was dairy. I see you already have a pretty restricted diet, so I'm not sure what else might be to blame. dairy is usually the culprit.

I just wonder if maybe getting the gut into balance would help? (particularly if there were abx in the past). Also, how is your DS's health overall? Does he look healthy? Or is he walking around with bags under the eyes, not getting sleep, not eating, etc.?

For me, it would have to be pretty severe before I'd do the surgery (esp. if he's under 3). But its certainly a cost benefit to how he is functioning now.

XOXO
B

[chlobo]

DS is 2.5.

He has not had ear infections that we know about. They have no done a sleep study. They are basing it on our description of his sleeping habits. I believe he does has some form of sleep apnea. I am sure his gut it out of balance. We have just started to see a naturopath for his issues. For a while his sleep was really, really bad. It has improved slightly just recently. The naturopath thinks a tongue tie might also be partially impacting things. He's generally healthy, although this winter he was sick a lot and had lost some weight. Since seeing the naturopath he is looking a bit better.

The naturopath thinks we should do IgG allergy testing, change his homeopathic remedy & pursue having his tongue tie clipped. I am supportive of this but am not sure DH will be.

Can you point me to the research about the anesthesia & the memory loss. Maybe if I show DH that he would be willing to try the alternative approach for 6 months until DS turns 3.

Originally Posted by BethSLP

chlobo,

how old is your DS? if he's younger than 3, at least try to hold off until he's 3 or older. The reason for this is that when I researched tonsillectomy risks, I found studies showing that children under 3 who go under general anaesthetic are at increased risk of lifelong memory problems. Of course, sometimes that risk is something that must be accepted if the child is truly suffering serious sleep apnea, or needs some other major surgery that cannot be put off. However, in most cases, I think the tonsillectomy isn't an absolute necessity.

did/does your DS have ear infections because of the tonsils? did they do a sleep study or are they just assuming he has sleep disturbances?

my DD has big tonsils. she had chronic ear infections. she also had a sleep study that confirmed a mild hypopnea. I gave her abx a number of times for said ear infections (would not do it again if I have the choice). her gut got out of whack (confirmed with stool tests). we did biocidin (anti fungal anti yeast), a bunch of supplements, and gluten free, dairy free, soy free. we pretty much figured out it was dairy. I see you already have a pretty restricted diet, so I'm not sure what else might be to blame. dairy is usually the culprit.

I just wonder if maybe getting the gut into balance would help? (particularly if there were abx in the past). Also, how is your DS's health overall? Does he look healthy? Or is he walking around with bags under the eyes, not getting sleep, not eating, etc.?

For me, it would have to be pretty severe before I'd do the surgery (esp. if he's under 3). But its certainly a cost benefit to how he is functioning now.

XOXO
B

[BethSLP]

chlobo,

here is a link to the anaesthesia issue in children.
http://www.newsweek.com/id/165041

just randomly I happen to be an SLP as well and I'm highly skeptical of the "tongue tie" surgery recommendation. how does the naturopath think a tongue tie is impacting him negatively? did he have trouble breastfeeding? I tried googling the connection between tongue tie and sleep apnea and only found it mentioned by one guy (brian palmer). I'm skeptical of his ideas because he just seems so militant about tongue tie being the source of every problem. One kid's bed wetting was attributed to tongue tie. WTF??

I just can't understand the theory behind how a tongue tie would cause or contribute to sleep apnea. The whole issue with tongue tie is that tongue being anchored in the front. If anything, it causes tongue thrust and open bite. Sleep apnea has to do with an obstructed airway. Big tonsils make sense, as does extra weight/neck tissue (older folks who are obese like my dad often have it), but how would holding the tongue in a more forward carriage do anything (except possibly help) to affect the airway.

I would get a second, or third, opinion personally. But its possible he knows something I don't. I'd just need more information before doing that surgery.

Also, for what its worth, many children I see for speech for /s/ and /z/ frontal lisps and have a tongue thrust also have enlarged tonsils. makes sense, right? they thrust their tongue forward to make room in their airway since the tonsils are taking up so much space back there.

XOXO
B

[Panserbjorne]

Originally Posted by BethSLP

chlobo,

The whole issue with tongue tie is that tongue being anchored in the front.

Not if you are talking about posterior ties. They are different than the classic tie. At the last conference specifically dedicated to discussing posterior ties you'd be amazed at all the doctors with clinical evidence showing a wide range of issues resolved with the clipping.

It's not just a breastfeeding issue, unfortunately.

[Panserbjorne]

Originally Posted by moonlight mom

I'm in connecticut - mystic area. We have a naturpath ped in mystic that does homeopathy and herbs. She is the most amazing doc ever. Got my asthmatic son off meds. Anyway, the bottle she gave me says hist 30c. I gave her 3 drops at night for 2 weeks. I have to repeat dosing when she gets a cold b/c she starts snoring and waking up frequently again. But it works - she also has a constitutional remedy that may also have helped too.

She is a wonderful person. An absolute gem of practitioner.

[chlobo]

Originally Posted by Panserbjørne

Not if you are talking about posterior ties. They are different than the classic tie. At the last conference specifically dedicated to discussing posterior ties you'd be amazed at all the doctors with clinical evidence showing a wide range of issues resolved with the clipping.

It's not just a breastfeeding issue, unfortunately.

You wouldn't happen to have a link to the conference. Maybe they have a list of knowledgeable doctors that it might be useful for me to talk to.

[Panserbjorne]

I'll find out if it's public and then send you a link. There were a few fantastic presentations. There was quite a bit of talk about gut function. I wouldn't discount Dr. Palmer by a longshot (he's up there as one of the foremost experts in this arena) and I think you can listen to his presentation from the LLLI conference as well which addresses apnea.

You can't talk to Dr. C anymore...but Catherine Watson Genna could direct you to people as well...I believe she was a part of the symposium as well. I will search for a link though.

[chlobo]

Originally Posted by Panserbjørne

I'll find out if it's public and then send you a link. There were a few fantastic presentations. There was quite a bit of talk about gut function. I wouldn't discount Dr. Palmer by a longshot (he's up there as one of the foremost experts in this arena) and I think you can listen to his presentation from the LLLI conference as well which addresses apnea.

You can't talk to Dr. C anymore...but Catherine Watson Genna could direct you to people as well...I believe she was a part of the symposium as well. I will search for a link though.

So sad about Dr. C. I hope she finds peace with it.

Do you think Catherine Watson Genna would know people that Sharon does not?

[Panserbjorne]

in terms of clipping-it's possible. it terms of supportive structural work? No.

[BethSLP]

Originally Posted by Panserbjørne

There was quite a bit of talk about gut function.

in regards to tongue tie? I've never heard of this, and am definetly interested as well.

XOXO
B

[Panserbjorne]

In the in service I did with Dr. Coryllos she had ultrasounds to show the anchoring of the tongue and how it interferes with peristalsis. The tongue is not able to rise in the middle so it can't complete the undulation, which means peristalsis is essentially incomplete all the way through the alimentary tract. There was quite a bit of discussion about reflux and food allergies originating with an undetected tie.

I've never before heard it relate to celiac disease, which a doctor in Israel (?) talked about. That, I'm still not understanding. I wonder if it's possible the gentleman whose case he was presenting had been misdiagnosed...not really sure. But yes, many people who pursue the procedure for older kids do so because of the impact on gut function.

I'm still not 100% sure how MUCH of a change you see in that area when you clip later. Other areas, yes. Gut function-it seems things shift, it's just a matter of how much. What Dr. C also would tell you is that when there is one minor midline defect there are usually others...so who knows what else is present in the child you are clipping. Clipping a frenulum isn't automatically going to change the flora of the gut even if the imbalance IS a result of the tie. It's not going to release or relax a tight anal sphincter on it's own. It's not going to change the structure of the cranial bones, but it will allow an experienced practitioner to then address the structure.

For your purposes the letters kids with posterior ties have difficult with are very different than the letters kids with anterior ties struggle with. They can often still articulate with the front of the tongue, but get into trouble when the tongue needs to rise in the middle for letters like "r" or "k."

[FireWithin]

My oldest who just turned 7, has a really hard time with the sound "r". He has a minor ptt - much less than my youngest. Both have very significant gut/allergy issues. I've not had either clipped, yet. I will be on top of it with this next one.