ugh....cannot come to an agreement.... - Page 3

[To-Fu]

Originally Posted by tammylsmith

He is still reluctant, but as I have posted before, has come so far around, considering he started from the "it's just done" point of view. He now agrees that he wouldn't want to have it done, even if I just left it up to him at this point. He also admitted, that while life would have been a whole lot easier for him if I had never presented an opposing view, he does not regret being more informed about the subject. He is still a little panicky about the whole thing, since our son is due in 2 weeks now, but I think (and he agreed with this) that it is all pretty much because there is this deep nagging feeling that either our son's penis is "messed up" or dh's is. I think it all boils down to insecurity. He thought this operation was done to make him somehow "better" in that department, but to find out it really has no point is so hard. We are beyond presenting information at this point. He knows it is all about emotion now, and what he needs to come to terms with. He miserably said "I just wish if they couldn't come up with a good medical reason to do it, that it would not be legal."

I was just like "hmmm, good point honey" (meanwhile, inside ) I really love dh and it's times like this that he reminds me why I married him.

I wish the rates were dropping faster in this country. I wish people would just think about this more before sacrificing their sons... but at least I know that in our tiny little corner of America, things will be peaceful and gentle, as nature intended.

This is such wonderful news!

I know it's bittersweet, though... on the one hand, your baby will be intact (yay!), but on the other hand? Your husband is going through some tough thought processes. Keep us updated, and enjoy the last bit of your pregnancy.

[texmati]

Well it's a good update for your son! I was origionally going to post that if you two can't come to a descision-- why not let your son cast the tie breaking vote when he's old enough to decide for himself?

Now it looks like your DH wishes for the same choice himself.

[QueenOfTheMeadow]

Wonderful news!! Congratulations and peaceful birthing thoughts coming your way. for your dh for coming to the right decision even though it's been so difficult for him.

[tammylsmith]

Oops! I just realized I co-opted someone else's thread by accident. I just wanted to make sure I point out that I am not the OP here on this thread. I meant to start a new discussion but must have just hit reply instead. Sorry about any confusion caused, I was just so happy to share our progress with a topic very similar to this OP's.

[brant31]

Originally Posted by tammylsmith

I think (and he agreed with this) that it is all pretty much because there is this deep nagging feeling that either our son's penis is "messed up" or dh's is. I think it all boils down to insecurity. He thought this operation was done to make him somehow "better" in that department, but to find out it really has no point is so hard. We are beyond presenting information at this point. He knows it is all about emotion now, and what he needs to come to terms with. He miserably said "I just wish if they couldn't come up with a good medical reason to do it, that it would not be legal."

is a beautiful, personal, poignant summation of why circumcision is such a volatile and visceral discussion point.

Instinctively, reasonable people know that if infant circumcision is objectively healthier and significantly cost-effective (from a public health POV), then it should be universal. But if it is not, then it is merely disfiguring and painful and should be outlawed. There really is no middle ground. It makes no sense that routine circ is tremendously effective for one family and only destructive for another family.

It is really up to the medical profession to say, "There is no valid reason for doing this, and it should be actively discouraged". In many countries, they do. But somehow the medical associations in the world's largest and most influential medical market have instead interpreted their role as to find all the possible justifications and rationalizations for a bad habit and then discuss these against the alternative. It drags us right back to the "both ways are equally valid" point which, as your husband instinctively understands, cannot be right. Maybe if both options were free and painless; but they're not.

Viewed in the aggregate, this country spends upwards of $750 million a year to sever infant foreskins (and fix the tens of thousands of messes it creates). For no net medical benefit vs Western Europe, our demographic peers. This cultural blindness went unchecked for decades, but thankfully the internet is finally leveling the field.

It seems to me that those parents who finally "come around" are gradually seeing the big picture. It eases the pain and stubbornness if we earnestly say, "Look, we went down the wrong path for a couple of generations because we were in the dark. It looked right then, but we neither knew that our guides (the medical profession) were really not guiding us or that our peers (in distant countries) had found a more satisfactory path. The explosion of data and knowledge in the last 2 decades has shed new light on everything medical and allowed better sharing of information. Let's do better now, not regret and repeat." Or something to that effect.

One bit I still don't completely understand is how Canadian and Australian parents so readily dropped their own solid embrace of RIC. It came down a lot faster than it went up. I guess some of it was reform of how healthcare was delivered and some was their medical associations turning against the practice, yet to hear American parents today, neither of those would sway them from this beloved tradition. Maybe the reality is different when it truly does hit your wallet.

[hakunangovi]

[QUOTE=snowqueen;15261934]Can you post links to the percentages?
Canada:

The most recent stats for Canada that I can find are these ones for 2005, that show an overall rate of less than 10%. My doctor tells me that from her observation the number of baby boys being circumcised has dropped dramaticaly in the last 5 years.

http://www.courtchallenge.com/refs/s...hi-2005-e.html

[MyBoysBlue]

The 10 percent is just in hospital circs. The majority are done after the Mom and baby are out of the hospital in pediatrician's offices and such.

http://www.courtchallenge.com/refs/yr99p-e.html
"The Maternity Experiences Survey, conducted in 2006 by the Public Health Agency of Canada, found an average national newborn circumcision rate of 31.9%. "

I think the biggest reason the rates have dropped is the fact that it is completely out of pocket. It isn't covered by our health care or private insurance. I've also heard that it's becoming harder to find a doctor willing to actually perform a circumcision. I've heard stories of people living in the provinces with really low circ rates (rates vary greatly by province), having to travel out of province.

[Ron_Low]

Originally Posted by evjolin

locker room

OK. Agree with him. Tell him conformity is very important and you insist that son look like most normal males. Then walk over to the computer and show him that 85% of the world's families do not circumcise.