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post #1 of 27
Thread Starter 
so i am 39 weeks and five days pregnant today. and if this baby is a boy i have decided not to circumsize though it goes against my religion. and i told my family months ago. we haven't talked about but my sister hasn't talked to me since (and she lives two minutes away). my parents say they don't know if they will attend a naming ceremony if the baby is a boy. and my mother just called me up and told me how if baby is a boy he won't be jewish and i am out of the will. can't anyone be happy that i am having a baby! sorry just hormonal venting. this came up out of the blue.
post #2 of 27
I'm sorry they're acting that way

Good for you for protecting your sweet baby, no matter what your family's response
post #3 of 27
Hi there. Moving this to Spirituality, since talk about religion as it relates to circumcision is beyond the scope of TCAC.
post #4 of 27
So your mom has stooped to blackmail, by saying she will cut you out of her will. Nice

Although, your mom doesn't know what she is talking about anyway. Baby born of a Jewish mother is Jewish. Circ or no circ.
post #5 of 27
Hugs to you mama! So sorry your family is treating you this way! Has your mom always been so manipulative? If so, perhaps her cutting you out of the will is a blessing in disguise.

Hopefully they will all calm down after they meet and fall in love with the little guy.
post #6 of 27
I would just explain that he will be Jewish, since you are jewish (I promise, no one will check when Bar Mitzvah time comes along)

I would also explain that your child's bodily integrity is not up for grabs and you are not willing to use it as a bargaining chip.

You believe in freedom of choice and religion, Those choices belong to your son as a sentient being with his own free will .

Good for you for standing up for your son's human rights. Hopefully, once he is here, the trauma to your family will pass. They will see this as normal for your son and that lightning did not come down and strike anyone!
post #7 of 27
i'm sorry to hear about how your family is treating you. good for you though for sticking up for your sons' right to genital integrity. best wishes for a smooth & healthy labor & delivery!

also, i find it interesting when those who believe in religious circ say a child won't be jewish w/o it. seems like that which makes one jewish can change on a whim?

sus
post #8 of 27
We are also Jewish and expecting a baby in July. I told my family last week that if it turns out to be a boy we will not be circing. My mom got a little cold about it, but accepted it. She warmed up to it after a long discussion about things. We talked about how Jews are finding many ways to make males and females more equal, even when it goes strictly against the bible (think of how your ketubah now allows you to end your marriage and not just your husband).

What if you told your mom that in an effort to make females equal to men you decided to circumcise your daughter, if you have one? My mom was mortified at that thought, and I explained to her that now it was time for males to be given the same right to bodily integrity as females. I had to have a bit of an anatomy lesson with her, which was slightly uncomfortable. I think as a culture we are so used to the term "foreskin" and think of it as just skin. I really taught my mom about the function and purpose of a foreskin, and how it is attached, and that was a major eye opener for her.

As Jews, we use symbolism for many things. For instance, did you mom sacrifice an animal on Passover? Likely not. I'm sure she had a symbolic shank bone on her seder plate instead. It is time that we started giving our sons the same bodily integrity that we give to our daughters. There is no reason that we can't offer a symbol of our covenant with god to replace the barbaric practice of permanently removing a healthy and functioning part of their organs.

Does your mom keep strict kosher? Honor the sabbath? Do you? How will not honoring those impact the Judaism of all involved?

The truth is, your child will be Jewish because you are Jewish. Male circumcision is not a requirement to being Jewish.

It is a shame that your mom waited until this point in your pregnancy to dump this on you. When you are comfortable with it, maybe sit her down and go over some of this stuff with her. Maybe now, so she will attend the naming ceremony, but maybe later. Do it when you feel capable of a calm conversation with her, when you are in a place that you can walk away if you need to.

I don't know your mom, but I can't imagine that she will just walk away from you and her grandchild over this issue. She might miss out on an important milestone (the naming), but I can't imagine it will be permanent. We are fighting a very long held system of beliefs and way of doing things without question. It takes a lot to get our parents to open up to the fact that their thoughts on this subject might be wrong. Especially if you have a circ'd father or brother.

Hang tough! You are not alone. Times are changing, slowly but surely. Someday, circumcision will be something that is performed symbolically. And it will be because of parents like us, who stood up for our sons and had voices that were heard. People are listening. I didn't come up with this on my own. If my first child had been a boy, he would have been circ'd (thankfully, we had a girl). But, I listened to what others were saying. And others will listen to what we are saying. It might take a while for your mom to listen, but she will calm down. And she might even start to come around.

Good luck and congratulations on your baby!
post #9 of 27
i'm sorry that you are going through this.

i don't know if anything will convince them, but it is not uncommon for jewish families to choose not to circ and do the naming instead. it's a choice, and the child is still jewish.

and congratulations on your baby boy! *celebrate celebrate celebrate you and your baby boy!*

and we've been "out of the will" too. our response "we had no expectation of receiving anything in the will, anyway, and since it won't happen for another 30 years or more likely anyway, we figure it doesn't matter if we are in or not."

so, it's an empty threat for us. lol
post #10 of 27
You're amazing to be so strong when up against such emotional blackmail. Your mother isn't God and doesn't get to hand out the "Jewish" certificates. He's Jewish because you are, end of story. If she told you that you were no longer Jewish, would that really make you not Jewish? NO! She knows that. They will all get over it and they'll be better for it. Good for you for bringing them all to this uncomfortable place that will help them grow. You're doing them a favor, and honoring your child's body.

I love this quote "If God had meant for boys to have foreskins, they would have been born with them." Also, there's a place called www.TheRidgedBand.info that has info on the purpose of the foreskin. It may be able to help you with explaining things to your mother if you chose to.

Ammiga has some great advice. I hope all works out for you and your family. They won't be able to stay away from that adorable little boy for long. They're just trying to guilt you into doing what they did, so they don't have to face the fact that they did the wrong thing.

Good luck.
Lisa
post #11 of 27
post #12 of 27
fascinating article.
post #13 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arduinna View Post

Although, your mom doesn't know what she is talking about anyway. Baby born of a Jewish mother is Jewish. Circ or no circ.
Yes to this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chaoticzenmom View Post
You're amazing to be so strong when up against such emotional blackmail. Your mother isn't God and doesn't get to hand out the "Jewish" certificates.
Ok that is funny
post #14 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by ammiga View Post
We are also Jewish and expecting a baby in July. I told my family last week that if it turns out to be a boy we will not be circing. My mom got a little cold about it, but accepted it. She warmed up to it after a long discussion about things. We talked about how Jews are finding many ways to make males and females more equal, even when it goes strictly against the bible (think of how your ketubah now allows you to end your marriage and not just your husband).

What if you told your mom that in an effort to make females equal to men you decided to circumcise your daughter, if you have one? My mom was mortified at that thought, and I explained to her that now it was time for males to be given the same right to bodily integrity as females. I had to have a bit of an anatomy lesson with her, which was slightly uncomfortable. I think as a culture we are so used to the term "foreskin" and think of it as just skin. I really taught my mom about the function and purpose of a foreskin, and how it is attached, and that was a major eye opener for her.

As Jews, we use symbolism for many things. For instance, did you mom sacrifice an animal on Passover? Likely not. I'm sure she had a symbolic shank bone on her seder plate instead. It is time that we started giving our sons the same bodily integrity that we give to our daughters. There is no reason that we can't offer a symbol of our covenant with god to replace the barbaric practice of permanently removing a healthy and functioning part of their organs.

Does your mom keep strict kosher? Honor the sabbath? Do you? How will not honoring those impact the Judaism of all involved?

The truth is, your child will be Jewish because you are Jewish. Male circumcision is not a requirement to being Jewish.

It is a shame that your mom waited until this point in your pregnancy to dump this on you. When you are comfortable with it, maybe sit her down and go over some of this stuff with her. Maybe now, so she will attend the naming ceremony, but maybe later. Do it when you feel capable of a calm conversation with her, when you are in a place that you can walk away if you need to.

I don't know your mom, but I can't imagine that she will just walk away from you and her grandchild over this issue. She might miss out on an important milestone (the naming), but I can't imagine it will be permanent. We are fighting a very long held system of beliefs and way of doing things without question. It takes a lot to get our parents to open up to the fact that their thoughts on this subject might be wrong. Especially if you have a circ'd father or brother.

Hang tough! You are not alone. Times are changing, slowly but surely. Someday, circumcision will be something that is performed symbolically. And it will be because of parents like us, who stood up for our sons and had voices that were heard. People are listening. I didn't come up with this on my own. If my first child had been a boy, he would have been circ'd (thankfully, we had a girl). But, I listened to what others were saying. And others will listen to what we are saying. It might take a while for your mom to listen, but she will calm down. And she might even start to come around.

Good luck and congratulations on your baby!

if half the parents in the world thought half as much as you do about parenting & your religion, the world would be a much more peaceful, loving place.

sus
post #15 of 27
Thread Starter 
thanks everyone for the support, i really appreciate it. it feels good to be able to come to a place be understood. and yes, my mom is the type to cut me out of the will. (they made a clause in their will that if my brother didn't marry someone jewish he would be disinherited. of course he solved that problem by killing himself!)
i have asked my family to watch cutthefilm.com so we could start having a discussion. they have refused. it is quite fascinating to watch them act. but i am proud of my decision (and we don't even know if baby is a boy!!) and i feel very comfortable with it. it has been a great journey and mothering.com has been such a catalyst and eye opener for me in so many ways. i am so grateful to all of you mamas. thank you again.
post #16 of 27
Your family clearly feels strongly about this. Try not to be too hard on them. They are fighting for something they feel strongly about. This is a huge blow to them I am sure. Allow them their grief and their space. I would reinforce to them that having them in their grandsons life now is far more important than being in their will so if that is what they feel they must do then so be it but you do not harbor any anger about it. They will come around eventually. It will be hard for them but honestly...its their grandson. he will have an irresistable pull on them. They may miss the naming ceremony but whatever, I am willing to bet they will be there for other big events if you intend to raise him Jewish.
post #17 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by PotreroHill View Post
I'm sorry they're acting that way

Good for you for protecting your sweet baby, no matter what your family's response
that
post #18 of 27
I'm so glad you are protecting your son!
post #19 of 27
Thread Starter 
baby is a boy! born at home at 8 pounds 10 ounces. and staying intact!!! thanks everyone!
post #20 of 27
Congratulations!
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