Social eating with non-TFers

[JMJ]

My in-laws really, really like restaurants. They don't tolerate taking time to prepare foods, and they wouldn't want to "impose" themselves on us by letting me cook for them. The few times they have let me cook, they have stopped by a grocery store prepared food section and picked up several foods to add to what I prepared. It's really hard to just have a frank discussion about my needs, so I'm wondering if there's a way to just deal with restaurants.

Along similar lines, how do you deal with potlucks or eating at other people's houses or even inviting people over and letting them bring something. I've had families over twice in the past week. I figured that breads and proteins would be more of a problem than fruits and vegetables. The family that came for dinner, I suggested they bring a vegetable or a salad. While it wasn't a terribly nutrient-rich salad (mostly iceberg lettuce), it worked. I hope nobody noticed me sneak some of my own dressing.

The family I invited over for brunch, I suggested a fruit salad. Maybe I'm too much of a traditionalist, but when I think of fruit salad, the only thing I put in it is fresh fruit. I never expected something that included maraschino cherries and was floating in a sugary syrup. This same mom was surprised that I was feeding my 1 year old eggs and asked for rice cereal to feed her 6 month old and couldn't believe we didn't have any baby cereal or baby food in the house!

An organization my husband belongs to has been having family potlucks every month. I've mostly just been bringing my own food, sometimes stepping out to eat or not eating much since I'm afraid of offending people.

Also, a lot of my friends are on diets that are almost mutually exclusive with mine. A friend of mine and my SIL are both vegetarians. One of my friends needs to lose weight, so he would rather pump himself full of food additives than eat any fat. Another friend hates to cook, eats 100% processed food, has IBS, and has been told that she needs to eat soy, white rice, white flour and little to no fat. (Surprise, surprise! The diet hasn't helped.)

Aside from the pain of watching the people I love make a lot of decisions about their diets that I really believe are hurting them, I feel like I'm having a hard time socially because nobody around me cares about eating healthy foods. How do you handle this, TF mammas?

[serenbat]

Yea, I would love to know how this is done too!!??

I could not eat when I saw several items yesterday from the dirty dozen on the table I was visiting--YUCK not to mention the WHITE bread, ORANGE cheese, marsh-mellows thing with cherries, etc - and this was for a 2 year old!

I know it's not just "special" meals!!!

I did bring some food for us to eat and have made our choices vocal but I am at a LOSS too!!!!!

[cristeen]

So far, this is what we do...

If I invite someone over, I do not ask them to bring food unless I know them well and can be specific (like my BFF). Everyone else, I just practice "thanks, but I have it covered".

Going to other's houses, mostly I just resign myself to what they'll be serving. I generally volunteer to bring something with me, so I can feel better about that one dish, but it's the price I pay for accepting invitations. In the instance of a potluck, I generally bring at least 2 dishes that I can feel good about.

Going out to restaurants - often this is a better choice for me than eating at someone's house. I try to pick restaurants that use fresh ingredients/scratch cooking. In some areas that's harder to do than others. But I'd rather eat whole food that's not organic/pastured using less than ideal oils than whatever boxed concoction my grandmother's going to come up with (cream of X soup, anyone?). Often ethnic restaurants are a better choice for whole food cooking.

For the instance of the IL's - I'd be straight with them, or ask your DP to do so... you'd *really* rather cook than go out, it's no trouble, no you don't need them to pick up accompaniments, because you have the menu planned and don't need the last-minute change of plans. But then you'd better have the menu planned. (Alternatively you can follow Ms. Manners who says that a hostess gift does not have to be served at the meal, it is a gift and as such can be put right into the fridge/garbage if that's the host's preference.) If that doesn't work, then tact 2 would be to not even discuss it with them. Just go into the kitchen and start working, and when they ask where you're going for dinner, tell them what's on the menu. They can go out if they want, but this is what you're serving. I find it much easier with my grandmother to either bring the ingredients with me to make something (and tell her I'll take care of making dinner while she plays with the baby), or suggest early (and often) a restaurant I'd like to go to. After several meals of forcing myself to choke through whatever boxed thing she's come up with, I refuse to do it any longer.

ETA - oh, and I've learned the hard way that even something as simple as an "easy lunch of sandwiches and salad" isn't even particularly safe... when my hostess offered me a ham & cheese, then made it with white bread, miracle whip, American cheese and conventional ham and proceeded to microwave it. Served it with a side of packaged coleslaw with miracle whip dressing. Next time I know to be more specific (I expected the conventional ham, but don't know why the processed cheese or the microwave, since I know they have real cheeses in the house). So, IOW, learn from your mistakes.

[chattyprincess]

I think you handle it well. I usually do very similar to you if they insist on bringing something (and this is the way most people are where we live) I always say a salad or veg side. If they bring salad I just ask them not to dress it because dd is picky about dressing...(they think im crazy at that point anyways b/c dd is 3). Then I place out the dressings we have once they come. We entertain a ton and go out to friends often (at least once a week dinner is out at a friends or we have company over for dinner.)
When I go to peoples homes to eat I was raised to eat what was offered and be thankful for the bounty...but thats just me and I will avoid anything I know is prepackaged (to the best of my ability some people though cook compeletly from boxes!) and try to eat lots of the veg/salad. I always will insist on bringing something like a salad or veg and some type of "dessert" so that there is an option there for us.
Same theory for potlucks. I usually will bring a main dish and a side dish or a side and dessert that I know are healthy and enjoyable to others and then I eat the less offensive looking foods. If you are really against eating any of it then I would suggest eating before going so you can just polietly graze on a salad or the fruit/veg tray or some cheese. Generally if you don't make a big deal of it no one will take the time to notice that you aren't eating.

[nerdymom]

Originally Posted by chattyprincess

I think you handle it well. I usually do very similar to you if they insist on bringing something (and this is the way most people are where we live) I always say a salad or veg side. If they bring salad I just ask them not to dress it because dd is picky about dressing...(they think im crazy at that point anyways b/c dd is 3). Then I place out the dressings we have once they come. We entertain a ton and go out to friends often (at least once a week dinner is out at a friends or we have company over for dinner.)
When I go to peoples homes to eat I was raised to eat what was offered and be thankful for the bounty...but thats just me and I will avoid anything I know is prepackaged (to the best of my ability some people though cook compeletly from boxes!) and try to eat lots of the veg/salad. I always will insist on bringing something like a salad or veg and some type of "dessert" so that there is an option there for us.
Same theory for potlucks. I usually will bring a main dish and a side dish or a side and dessert that I know are healthy and enjoyable to others and then I eat the less offensive looking foods. If you are really against eating any of it then I would suggest eating before going so you can just polietly graze on a salad or the fruit/veg tray or some cheese. Generally if you don't make a big deal of it no one will take the time to notice that you aren't eating.

This is pretty much what we do. I will eat lightly and then eat again when I get home if the food is really wretched.

Also, that microwaved sandwich someone brought up, that sounds freakin' nasty! Microwaved processed cheese on white bread? ewww!

[Magelet]

we don't have folks over a lot, so usually it's our closest friends, most of whom fall into one of two catagories (mostly the first) a) they know I work in a kitchen, we both love to cook, we're foodies, and they're expecting something amazing and certainly wouldn't consider bringing food and/or b) the people who I would allow/suggust bring something if they asked, eat the same we do. If we had people more often, I would explain that I would love to cook for them, to me, cooking for people is a main way I express my love for them, and nothing could make me happier than to cook for them. Also, we have fairly strict food rules of the house (which actually can be bent in certain ways for us, but not for someone who wants to bring something processed to dinner). Certain things aren't allowed in the house, and it's probably easier for me to cook than to help them find something that fits. (no sugar, no processed foods, no pork, no shellfish, no derivitives of any of those things, no msg, no chemical dyes, no preservatives.) I would have no problem telling someone that they are welcome to bring food, but it has to be food that fits our house rules. If you go to someone's house where they all take their shoes off, you take off your shoes.

For restaurants, I don't find it hard at all. Many restaurants around here are pretty decent. Yes, they almost 100% use vegetable oil, but there are a lot of restaurants that serve mostly whole food, local food, sometimes even pastured meat and eggs. if we're going out to eat, we'd rather eat out less often at a place that costs more because it's real food than at a cheapo fake food place.

potlucks, I always assumed people brought real food to these. Then again, while I don't assume all food is fake, I often forget that fake/processed food exists/what it could be. I guess I was wrong? Well, bring a food or two that you can fill up on. Unless it is a very small potluck, (like 5-6 people) I don't think it is weird to really only eat your food.

When going over to someone's house for an eating thing the first time, it seems to me the norm to discuss dietary limitations (maybe because I have them.) at a certain point, I will assume they will serve real food, and eat what they serve to be polite, however I also think that if you are quite certain that they will serve something that won't work, I would suggust that I bring something I know I can eat. (yes I have different standards, in terms of not allowing processed food in my house. (If a vegetarian was coming over, I would accommodate them. If it was a vegan/gluten free/six other allergies person, I'd happily have them bring something they can eat, since I wouldn't have a clue what to make). I guess just finding a line between being polite and eating what they serve you, and the fact that for me, refined sugar is an allergy/intolerance. (heck, if alcohol is considered an allergy by alcoholics, then refined sugar is definitely an allergy for me.) I can't eat certain foods and not feel like crap the next day. so I won't. People around here tend to at the least serve what seems to me like base-line tolerable food.

For your friends with exlusive diets, I would say that if their diet is horribly restricted and not what you usually eat (and they can't/won't eat what you cook.) then they should bring some food for themselves at your house. (again, I would still expect them to respect my no processed foods in the house. If that means they can't come over to eat, then we'll do something that ISN'T eating at home) Or how about mostly going on picnics/out to restaurants where you can both eat what you need? Finding non-food activities. (I think veggie is pretty easy to cater to, you just do cheese sandwhichs instead of meat and cheese. leave the meat to the side/add meat to half. but then I grew up with a veggie.)

[Smokering]

(Alternatively you can follow Ms. Manners who says that a hostess gift does not have to be served at the meal, it is a gift and as such can be put right into the fridge/garbage if that's the host's preference.)

Eep. I love Miss Manners and can see her point from the guest's perspective (ie. don't whine at dessert "Where's the pie I brought?"), but from the host's perspective it seems kind of rude not to serve what someone brought. I mean, if someone brought a salad to my house for dinner it would be pretty obvious it was intended for dinner, and I'd feel it was rude and selfish just to squirrel it away. (And I say that as someone who prefers people not to bring food... if they ask, I request juice. Then they bring Coke, which I hate. But at least my menu is unadulterated!)

I think the only courteous response is to eat as well as you can from the selection provided, trying to be as subtle as you can about selecting (ie. taking half the salad in the bowl and passing on everything else will probably get you noticed - eating bread without margarine or skipping the Fanta probably won't.) People offering you food is an act of generosity, even if their idea of what constitutes food is way off... surely, barring actual allergies, accepting the invitation means being gracious about what's provided?

I feel your pain - I cringe a bit when I go to Mum's house and DD and I end up eating white supermarket bread, margarine and stale doughnuts. But I could always decline the invitation if it was a dealbreaker, you know?

[Brisen]

Originally Posted by Smokering

I think the only courteous response is to eat as well as you can from the selection provided, trying to be as subtle as you can about selecting (ie. taking half the salad in the bowl and passing on everything else will probably get you noticed - eating bread without margarine or skipping the Fanta probably won't.) People offering you food is an act of generosity, even if their idea of what constitutes food is way off... surely, barring actual allergies, accepting the invitation means being gracious about what's provided?

We do a few TF things, and there are some foods that I try to avoid. I just avoid them without comment and eat what I can.

People seem to be more and more aware of food allergies & intolerances, so you should be able to phrase it in a way that makes it about you, not them or their food. Just tell them you have food intolerances and need to bring/eat your own food.

[pandora665]

No real advice here, but you can always ask people to bring ice. They can't screw that up too bad, and people are usually really happy to bring it, b/c it's easy and cheap and they know you actually need it. I'm sure it's not filtered for fluoride and all, but it can always go in a cooler or under the deviled egg dish....

[JMJ]

Originally Posted by pandora665

No real advice here, but you can always ask people to bring ice. They can't screw that up too bad, and people are usually really happy to bring it, b/c it's easy and cheap and they know you actually need it. I'm sure it's not filtered for fluoride and all, but it can always go in a cooler or under the deviled egg dish....

Haha! That's great... until they see my ice maker on my freezer that makes filtered ice...

The Nourishing Gourmet post for the day couldn't be more timely:
http://www.thenourishinggourmet.com/...as-guests.html

I guess I do fall into the category of being able to not be perfect all the time. It was hard recently because I was celebrating a religious season of fasting where I made a commitment to no compromises, so if I ate something I shouldn't, it wasn't just a health issue but also a religious one. In general, I just feel better if I don't eat a whole meal of things that aren't good for me or if I don't go several days where I'm eating mostly things that aren't good for me or days where my breakfast is bagels and jam.

For restaurant eating, what's the hierarchy of bad among:
potatoes fried in vegetable oil (fries)
white or brown rice (presumably not soaked)
white sourdough bread or non-soaked whole grain bread
corn-fed beef
farm raised fish, color added or not
conventional chicken
breaded meat
cured meat with nitrates/nitrites
tofu
sauces that contain sugar at best and HFCS at worst

Basically, if I look at a standard menu, what should I try to avoid? I've been trying to go grain free when we're out, but is there something better to do?

[Squrrl]

I'm not a purist, but I've taken several approaches depending on circumstances:

If we're going to someone's house, they have to know and accommodate at least the meal being gluten-free. That's not hard at all, not for one meal, and it opens up the possibility of making suggestions that are more TF friendly as well, because people often need guidance even though I feel like gluten-free is pretty simple. If it was just me, I'd put up and shut up, but it's too frustrating and needlessly painful for a 2 year old to see the starchy foods she craves (with a downright disturbing intensity) and not be able to have them, so we just don't go there. I can't imagine anyone I'd actually want to hang out with having a problem with that. It isn't necessary for a potluck to be gluten-free or totally TF, because there are likely to be plenty of alternatives to distract her with. If I'd thought of it but not had a real food sensitivity, I might even sort of fudge one--like, well, really, we ALL have sugar sensitivities, right?

At playdates, where other kids often have junky things (or, since my parenting group is natural/AP, at least things my kid can't have), I make sure that my offerings are sufficient and sufficiently tempting. Similarly, at potlucks I always bring a dish that our family would be happy eating exclusively, if it came to that. Always did anyway, because a) we have a penchant for being late, and b) I am a major snob for my own cooking.

The rest of the time, honestly? Food is part of a culture, and traditional food culture is all about sharing and bonding over food, which is more important to me than an immaculate diet. I can pass on the major junk, or eat very sparingly and eat again later, but I think that it's not worth creating stress with friends and family, at least for us. (That said, we have great family, my mom is a better eater than us and my husband's parents are, if nothing else, unfailingly tolerant of their childrens' foibles, so really I have no place to talk.)

[greenmamapagan]

Originally Posted by JMJ

The Nourishing Gourmet post for the day couldn't be more timely:
http://www.thenourishinggourmet.com/...as-guests.html

*snip*

For restaurant eating, what's the hierarchy of bad among:
potatoes fried in vegetable oil (fries)
white or brown rice (presumably not soaked)
white sourdough bread or non-soaked whole grain bread
corn-fed beef
farm raised fish, color added or not
conventional chicken
breaded meat
cured meat with nitrates/nitrites
tofu
sauces that contain sugar at best and HFCS at worst

Basically, if I look at a standard menu, what should I try to avoid? I've been trying to go grain free when we're out, but is there something better to do?

I was just thinking that the Nourishing Gourmet post was quite timely.

I'd like to hear people's opinions on the restaurant options too. We choose eggs a lot (e.g. in Aus you can often find somewhere still serving breakfast until 5pm so we'll have scrambled eggs and not eat the toast).

[serenbat]

We also do a lot of eggs when out- along with "scrapple" (pork) as opposed to un-know beef.

A lot of our local dinners are Greek owned, so one thing that I found safe-ER is the feta (when I am able to ask- most carry goat feta). So we do breakfast for the most part. In the summer some places do carry fresh local produce- but it's hard and the kid's menu is just out of the question!!

[LauraLoo]

Originally Posted by Squrrl

Food is part of a culture, and traditional food culture is all about sharing and bonding over food, which is more important to me than an immaculate diet.

I agree that a lot of celebrations are centered around food and have historically been that way. It's too bad, actually, IMO. Because we have significant food allergies on top of doing TF, we struggle a lot in social gatherings. I just try to make sure that my children understand that the main point on gatherings is to gather. But when we need to eat, I bring safe stuff and then hope that there are other decent things that we can eat, too.

[cristeen]

Originally Posted by JMJ

For restaurant eating, what's the hierarchy of bad among:
potatoes fried in vegetable oil (fries)
white or brown rice (presumably not soaked)
white sourdough bread or non-soaked whole grain bread
corn-fed beef
farm raised fish, color added or not
conventional chicken
breaded meat
cured meat with nitrates/nitrites
tofu
sauces that contain sugar at best and HFCS at worst

Basically, if I look at a standard menu, what should I try to avoid? I've been trying to go grain free when we're out, but is there something better to do?

I think we all have to decide for ourselves where our preferences lie... for myself, it goes something like this:
Pork or shellfish is preferable to beef, this includes bacon/sausage
We can get good sourdough just about anywhere, even if it is white flour, so I'm fine with that
I don't soak my brown rice at home, so that doesn't bother me
And I can't draw the distinction between potatoes cooked in veg oil and everything else cooked in veg oil, so if I'm eating one, I don't mind eating the other.
I don't eat tofu, period.
And sweet sauces aren't really so much to get worked up about - most of them are made with sugar, the only HFCS would be in those containing ketchup.

That's my personal feeling on the matter, but we each have to find our own path.

[chattyprincess]

Originally Posted by Squrrl

I make sure that my offerings are sufficient and sufficiently tempting. Similarly, at potlucks I always bring a dish that our family would be happy eating exclusively, if it came to that. Always did anyway, because a) we have a penchant for being late, and b) I am a major snob for my own cooking.

This is my problem!

[Smokering]

For restaurant eating, what's the hierarchy of bad among:

It really depends on your definition of "bad". Are you thinking of it from a nutrient-density perspective, a lack-of-additives-and-evil-ingredients perspective, an animal-suffering perspective, an ecologically-friendly perspective...? Some of those things will contradict each other. Potato chips in Canola are unhealthy, but at least they don't involve CAFOs, you know? White sourdough will have fewer phytates, but also fewer nutrients than unsoaked wholemeal bread. So I'm not sure any of us could make a decision on the "badness" without understanding your hierarchy of issues with the SAD in general. You know?

[425lisamarie]

I'm totally not offended by anyone who doesn't want to eat what i do, and I know lots of people with different eating habbits so I don't make food the center of entertainment.

I always ask/tell people "I eat pretty particular, and we have had issues with allergies, so is there anything or a way you like to eat or not eat cause I totally will not be offended in the least, nor do I think it's difficult to plan this meal/party around everyones likes/dislikes."

I only have to tell people once, and when they come over they know i'm serious. I truly don't lilke to impose on people, nor do I want to be pressured or feel guilty to say no thanks to someone else. I don't put on big gatherings of dinner and such, usually it' s just company with some appetizer things or beverages and a few simple things to pick from. And I always feed my kids before we go anywhere. If I do plan a meal I always have basically a "salad bar" type, with platters of fillings/toppings, the greens, and a couple dressings in shakers. Rather than tossing it all together. SOme people DO freak out about eating fat like plain oil, so they want vinegar and less oil or something. Why should I care? They are happy, I'm not stressed. A fruit platter with some cheese and cold cuts. Some crusty bread, something to dip, and then a main course. I have a huge bar in my kitchen, so i'll put out a spread and everyone can go over buffet style. This way no one gets singled out as "the one who passes on the chicken" or only picks up one thing in front of the whole table. It's more comfortable for me and everyone. Sure it might look more elegant to have a nice place setting and carve a roast or chicken and pass all the sides but that is more pressure. I have always got compliments of the dinner style.

And when I BBQ in the summer it's the same type thing. A million pieces of BBQ chicken get thrown in a bowl, a big platter of burger patties, stacks of buns, lettuce for wraps or toppings, tomatoes, mayo/mustard/condiments, etc.