How do you know when/if you've tried hard enough?

[simplemama32]

DH (just H now?) and I are currently separated, and I honestly feel like it is headed more toward divorce than reconciliation. Leaving was my idea (well, it's only been a little over a week that we've been apart so far), but while I feel like I've been trying hard to save our marriage for a long time, I still feel horribly guilty about it and can't stop wondering about all the "if's"... if I tried one more thing or if only DH was willing to meet me halfway or if only he could admit his part in all of this and take some steps on his own...

I know I may always have a bit of residual doubt, but I do want to be at peace with my decision. I want to be able to honestly tell our DS (and myself) in future years that I tried everything to keep our family intact and didn't just jump ship at the first sign of trouble. With that said, however, I'm having a hard time telling the difference between "yes, I've given it my best shot and now I'm beating a dead horse" and "maybe I should try one more time just to be sure."

It's hard to pare everything we've been through down into a concise little paragraph , but basically what I've tried so far (over the course of the past two years or so, though we had various issues for longer than that)...self-improvement, self-help and marriage/relationship books, this forum and similar forums/internet sites, talking to friends and family, lengthy discussions/arguments with DH about my unhappiness and both of our "issues," individual counseling, and couples counseling.

And when it's all written out like that, it does seem like a lot, but I still wonder...

[FiveLittleMonkeys]

Well, I'm not the one who is wanting a divorce, but what I've told my husband is that he should be able to look our kids in the eye and said, "I/We did everything I/we could to save our family, and I/we just couldn't. I'm sorry."

And he can't. He simply can't. I've asked him if he'd wait until he got back from deployment - refused. I've asked if he'd go to counseling - refused. He can't tell the kids in good conscience that he did everything he could - or even anything.

So as long as you can walk with your head held high, knowing that you TRIED, I'd say you're fine. My husband can't, and that's going to be a sad realization for him someday.

ETA: Also, it seems that you have a somewhat unwilling, or outright unwilling partner - that makes a difference as well. You are right in that you have to consider how long to beat a dead horse. It seems like you've carefully considered this for awhile.

[chamomeleon]

I couldn't read and not respond, because I can relate so much to what you are going through.

I'm feeling especially doubtful about our decision to divorce right now because we just broke the news to our son (5 y.o.) this past weekend. I feel so sad and guilty about not being able to give him an intact family, and have been second-guessing myself for the past couple of days. However, STBX and I are both committed to staying amicable through this process and hopefully will come through it as friends and partners in raising our wonderful son. If we can't give him a "traditional" happy family (whatever that my be...), we can at least give him the next best thing, which is two loving parents who are happy, grounded, and fulfilled in their own lives.

You have to trust that you know in your heart whether it is time to move on, or worth another try. We will probably always have doubts, because we can't possibly know what the future will bring. I just keep telling myself that if I stay present, make the best decisions I can TODAY with the information I have available to me RIGHT NOW, then that is the very best I can do for myself and my son.

I know that doesn't really give you the answer you are looking for, but hopefully there is some part of you that already knows it, and you just need to give yourself permission to listen to your own voice. Good luck mama!

[Freedom~Mama]

Getting a divorce is a huge deal, esp. when you have kids. It can be such a fine line between giving it all you've got and beating a dead horse. I know I gave my marriage everything that I could. In the end though I couldn't change my STBX or make him want to be a good Husband or Father. I am still very sad about it but I know this is for the best. He didn't treat me right (or our kids) and there is nothing I could do to change that.

I don't think many people go into a divorce feeling 100% convicted about it every second of every day. There are a lot of conflicting emotions. If you feel though like realistically you have tried and you really don't think it can work out moving on is probably a good idea because that in itself is such a big and long process.

Good luck with whatever you decide. I know how hard it is.

[simplemama32]

Thank you all.

FiveLittleMonkeys -- That IS going to be a sad day for your husband when he realizes, and I'm sorry you and your kids are having to go through that. As I mentioned before, it's extremely important to me to have exhausted all sources and options before admitting defeat. I think one reason I feel so stuck is that I don't understand why it doesn't seem as important to my spouse. He doesn't *want* a divorce but he doesn't want to work on the marriage either. Very frustrating...as a good majority of our married life has been.

chamomeleon -- You are so right with everything you're saying. I'm trying to the best I can with the information and situation I have. Sometimes I think I'm just waiting for permission from...who?? I'm not sure, but it would be total relief to hear a voice from above say, "OK, you did your best, now you're free to go!" Like then I wouldn't have to take responsibility for making an adult decision and accepting the consequences, bad or good.

I feel so sad and guilty about not being able to give him an intact family, and have been second-guessing myself for the past couple of days. However, STBX and I are both committed to staying amicable through this process and hopefully will come through it as friends and partners in raising our wonderful son. If we can't give him a "traditional" happy family (whatever that my be...), we can at least give him the next best thing, which is two loving parents who are happy, grounded, and fulfilled in their own lives.

Yes, yes, yes, to all of this. Hugs and good luck to you in your journey!

Beautiful Life -- Thank you for saying that. It helps to hear that it's still possible and normal to have doubts even after making a decision. There is so much at stake here, and I think fear is holding me back a great deal. Honestly, I do just want this over with so I can move on with my life and my son's life.

[FiveLittleMonkeys]

Originally Posted by simplemama32

Thank you all.
Sometimes I think I'm just waiting for permission from...who?? I'm not sure, but it would be total relief to hear a voice from above say, "OK, you did your best, now you're free to go!" Like then I wouldn't have to take responsibility for making an adult decision and accepting the consequences, bad or good.
.

I understand this...my STBX told me he wanted a divorce, but then did nothing - said nothing, refused to talk about it - for WEEKS. Finally, after six weeks, I said enough. I asked him what his plans were, and he said he didn't have any, but he was still, "Done." I asked him for his reasons, he had no concrete reasons, just reasons that didn't make sense. He started getting angry at me when I said how devastated our children were. Then he said this:

"My happiness is more important than our childrens'."

And that statement right there - THAT was my voice. THAT was my clarity. That was my permission. I retained a lawyer the next day. I still haven't filed - he wants the divorce, he will have to file. But I have my clarity and can make the plans I needed to make for the kids and I.

So I understand where you are coming from on needing to hear it. I needed to hear it too.

[Eaglevoice]

It took me a long time to finally admit that I had done everything I could to try and save my marriage. I decided to leave my husband in September of 2008, but it took me until April of 2009 to actually walk out the door. I moved myself and my girls 6 hours away to my parents house, and even then, I entertained the idea that we might be able to figure out a way to work things out with a little space between us. We flip-flopped back and forth for months and months. We would be talking about trying for a few weeks, then talking about filing for a few weeks. I don't know what it was that finally did it for me...but one day I just knew. I knew he would never be able to give me what I needed, and I would never be able to be everything that he needed. We made the final decision in December 2009. Honestly, at this point, I know with 100% certainty that I can say to my children that daddy and I did everything we possibly could to keep us all together and it just didn't work. It'll happen, it just takes time. You have to give your heart some time to heal and process the whole situation before you really know that you did the right thing.

[MsChatsAlot]

There seems to come a time when the 'wondering' ends and you just know...one way or another what you must do and what you are going to do.

There are no easy answers and no easy solutions. I hope you will find a peaceful resolution to your situation, whatever that resolution may be.

[jaidymama]

line in the sand...

So it is such a personal decision for everyone. Although I would think safety would be high on a list of reasons to leave. But essentially what I found is that there will be no end of a relationship until someone draws a line in the sand and gives the ultimatum either out loud or saying it to yourself.

There could always be more second chances, more counseling, more date nights, more arguing, more making up, etc. etc. etc. Time keeps marching on and if you're searching for a way to stay together, there is always something that could be done differently. It's a question of whether or not you or your partner want/can do things differently.

There is a book I found at my library called Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay. I liked it because it was a set of questions along with some corresponding background information related to the question. Essentially going through the book answering the questions, and getting to the end and judging your own results. It's not a cut and dry thing, and the questions are not yes or no. It might not be helpful to you, but I liked it.

I know that divorce can be a difficult decision, and I want to be careful what I say. Two things I would suggest considering: 1. What would your life look life if you were divorced? Practically speaking, what problems would likely end and what problems would transfer into the coparenting relationship? What new problems would you be faced with? What kinds of answers do you have for those new problems? 2. What is the worst case scenario? Are you ok with it? If not, what scenario are you ok with?


Really, though, listen to your gut. Is it telling you that it has to be over, or is it telling you that you're just exhausted? What about this... if you were to go on a vacation together for a month, would that rekindle things or would you drive each other nuts?

alright. Good luck.

[Hey Mama!]

I am struggling with this question myself. H and I seperated (again) about 3 weeks ago. After years of asking him to go to counseling he decided to try it, we've been once. He is really trying to be super nice and pour it on thick, but honestly I don't know if I have it in me to try to make it work again. We have had a very rocky relationship where I felt like I was the only one doing any work to save it, and now I'm kind of tapped out. I'm planning on checking out the above mentioned book to see if that helps me in my decision making process, because right now I'm so twisted up and confused.

[A&A]

Originally Posted by jaidymama

There is a book I found at my library called Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay. I liked it because it was a set of questions along with some corresponding background information related to the question.

This book advertises itself as "neutral" but really struck me as pro-divorce.

[meemee]

Originally Posted by MsChatsAlot

There seems to come a time when the 'wondering' ends and you just know...one way or another what you must do and what you are going to do.

this was exactly how it happened to me.

ex asked for a divorce 3 weeks before i gave birth. but he also said he was confused that he loved me but couldnt live with me. after a year i could not handle the life we had. mind you i wanted to separate but he always didnt want to and always talked me out of it.

but when that moment came he knew. he didnt try to talk. he just asked how much time he had. we worked it out where i would stay in the apt and he would leave.

but like MCAL wrote. it just happened.

however here is one more thing. ex knew even when i was preg (and i knew too) that he didnt want it anymore. he felt hugely guilty. and it took him a while to wade thru his guilt (because i left everything to move to a foreign land) and to try to live together and make it. he didnt try in teh usual way - counselling, etc. but i know in his way he tried really hard to make it work - but it was an emotional thing. he just could not do it. and so i will give it to him that he did try his hardest.

mind you i didnt want to seperate. i was still in love with him. however i had had enough of the life we were leading then. my dd was growing up and i didnt want her to understand that daddy lived with us and then he didnt. so all these factors helped me make up my mind.

in my case i knew this divorce was more than a divorce. this separation went far deeper than he not wanting me. we have been seperate for 6 years. ex has had a few girlfriends (infedility too) to date but none to set up house with. i am pretty confident he wont set up house ever again.

when you have had enough you will KNOW. you will KNOW.

[LoveOhm]

Originally Posted by MsChatsAlot

There seems to come a time when the 'wondering' ends and you just know...one way or another what you must do and what you are going to do.

There are no easy answers and no easy solutions. I hope you will find a peaceful resolution to your situation, whatever that resolution may be.

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