S/O: "What does the Resurrection REALLY mean?"

[Comtessa]

Okay, as requested, here's a spin-off thread from Progressive Christianity.

The question of the hour: "What the heck does the Resurrection really mean?"

Because, y'all, it is Easter.

And for many of us who celebrate the holiday, there is a great deal of mystery in the Resurrection story. I'd imagine a lot of us struggle to understand it. So... what is this Resurrection thing all about???

What do we think actually happened that first Easter morning?

What on earth did the disciples see and hear that made them believe that their friend and teacher had been raised from the dead?

And what of the Gospel accounts of the Resurrection? What's going on there? What is each evangelist trying to say about Jesus' resurrection, and how do we make sense of it today?

Did Jesus really come back from the dead? And if he did, was his body resurrected, or was it some kind of spiritual resurrection? Was it like the apparition of a ghost or spirit? And what on earth does it mean to us to assert "Jesus is risen"?

I'd like to assert a couple of completely arbitrary ground rules for this discussion. 1) No creeds. I know what the various Christian denominations say about the Resurrection. I want to hear what you think about it. And, 2) No obfuscation. The point is to clarify, rather than confuse, the topic. Okay, now you may feel free to ignore said ground rules.


Theologians, fire away!!!

ETA: Of course I have my own theories. But I'd like to hear what others have to say first.

[genifer]

Did Jesus really come back from the dead? And if he did, was his body resurrected, or was it some kind of spiritual resurrection? Was it like the apparition of a ghost or spirit? And what on earth does it mean to us to assert "Jesus is risen"?

Well, Comtessa, what a wonderful question and opportunity for all of us of various denoms, or lack there of, to discuss one, what I believe, to be the founding... things of our shared faith!!

I personally believe Jesus rose literally and bodily from the dead. I believe he showed himself to his disciples.

I believe Jesus is risen and alive now in the way we will be risen and alive when the time is right . To me this means that Jesus will come back, when and how and such are the details Im not as clued up on, but I believe it beyond a shadow of a doubt.

What it means to me is that one day, either during my lifetime or not my body will be raised from death in the same way Jesus' was. I believe His body after ressurrection was real, not spirit but also not like our corruptable physical bodies and these are the 'kind' of bodies I believe we'll have when God is done with this 'age'. I mean, I believe our bodies will be tangeable but incorruptable, ykwim? I believe Jesus was God from the beginning and was God when He lived with us on earth, but he was also fully God, that he took on a body like ours, and that he will continue to have a body like ours (except he's the first to have it so really ours will become like His... make sense?).

Thats my story and Im sticking to it!

[Fay]

Great questions.

The Gospel tells us that it was not a ghost or apparition, that it was a bodily resurrection. Jesus ate some baked fish with his friends after his resurrection (Luke 24:37-43), and Thomas touched the wounds on Jesus' body after the resurrection (John 20:26-28).

Kids are jumping all over me, can't write any more today!

[Suzukimom]

Fay, I find it interesting though that Jesus's disciples didn't recognize him on the road to Emmaus. What would be the explanation?

It's also interesting that the verses in Mark 16:9-20 were not found in the oldest manuscripts. If these verses were added later, then Mark ends with the disciples being confused. So, why did someone add verses 9-20? Mark was the earliest gosple written and is considered the source documnet for the authors of Matthew and Luke, which were written several years later.

I don't really know what happened after Jesus's crucifixion. I wasn't there and I don't know anyone who was there. The gospels have different accounts and were written well after the event. Can they be accurate and should they be taken literally?

The resurrection has this meaning for me. I believe Jesus's spirit of love, compassion, healing which crosses all social boundaries lives on and he is worth following.

[cappuccinosmom]

What do we think actually happened that first Easter morning?

I believe Jesus rose bodily from the dead. He's God. He can do that.

What on earth did the disciples see and hear that made them believe that their friend and teacher had been raised from the dead?

I think they saw him, touched him, talked with him, and ate with him.

And what of the Gospel accounts of the Resurrection? What's going on there? What is each evangelist trying to say about Jesus' resurrection, and how do we make sense of it today?

I think they're each telling the same story from their POV, which means perspectives vary but the core is the same.

[Shantimama]

Moving to Religious Studies

[Bluegoat]

Well, I don't think we can really separate the spirit and body permanently. Human nature is to have both. Many people think that Christianity teaches that our final destination is to be in Heaven, without a body, but that isn't the case. Being in Heaven without a body is only a kind of stop-over, whatever that means in the context of being outside of time. The final destination though is to be resurrected, along with all that is good in creation, in a glorified form.

What is that form like? Well, it isn't a kind of body that degenerates like the physical bodies we have now. But it also isn't just a spirit without a body - because that would be leaving out something that is good, and part of our nature. I guess it is kind of a true union of the spiritual and physical where they are both perfected.

So I think this is the kind of state Jesus was in when he was resurrected. He was still himself, and he still had a body, but it was in some ways perfected, and also not contained by time and space or subject to the other laws of nature that are part of the fallen universe. I think this accounts for some of the strange occurrences in his presence at that point.

What is interesting is that even in a perfected glorified body, he still bore the marks of the Crucifixion. Which suggests that the experiences and even suffering we have in our fallen bodies are somehow still kept intact in the glorified body.

The different takes on the story, I tend to think of them as being the result of different people relating it, perhaps second hand in some instances.

[lilyka]

He was really ressurected. bodily ressurected. people touched him. I cannot say why people did not recognize him. they certainly did not expect to see him. And he had been to hell, had it out with Satan and then come back after he had stewed in death for three days. He had been beaten and disfigured before he died and who knows what hanging on a cross will do for ya. he may have been bruised, swollen, etc. or he may have been healed and glorified (although "put your hands in my wounds" does not exactly point to that) My best guess is that it was easier to explain this guy as anyone but Jesus. And hey, I have a co-worker, i see her for hours every day, don't recognize her when she stops in on her days off. no kidding. its just so out of context. If she dies. I certainly wouldn't think it was her standing in front of me when she walked into a room. You also have to consider the state of mind of the followers. they were beside themselves with grief. perhaps having cried for days, getting no sleep., not eating. and then here is a guy who is supposed to be dead standing in front of you, perhaps a bit transfigured (speaking of which in the story of the transfiguration when Christs glory was revealed he looked different. this was likely not so different)

[genifer]

Im not sure, I do wonder if it was a spiritual sort of blindness why people couldnt recognise him at first. Im just guessing, Mary hadnt recognised him at the tomb, but that might have been just bc she was so distraut, maybe she wasnt really looking at who she thought was the gardener... I think it was more spiritual tho.

[cappuccinosmom]

Wild, my son asked this very question today. Why didn't they recognize him?

lilyka's explanation is a very reasonable one, IMO. Also he may just have had a purpose in not revealing himself until they were all together, and "blinded" them. Being God, he could do that.

[Shami]

Regarding the why they did not recognize Him question...
I heard a message once which said that the disciples loved Jesus and believed He was the Christ, but they had trouble accepting (probably like we do) that He had to die and be in the tomb for three days, and then resurrect. His followers had to move from following a man (who was God in bodily form) on the earth to following Him as the Spirit who would indwell them.

There were many accounts of Him appearing and disappearing, walking through walls and such because the disciples had to learn how to live in His invisible presence. Not sure, but I think the Lord Jesus spent about 40 days appearing and disappearing to His disciples. This was the Lord's training them to live by the Spirit, rather than by Him as a man on the earth. Now we are called to walk by the Spirit. This is not easy to do. How many people ( I used to be one of them myself) think that Christians are a little crazy for saying things like, 'He spoke to me today', or 'I saw Jesus today', or 'I sensed the presence of the Lord Jesus today'. To unbelievers, this is foolishness because He is invisible to them.

In John 20:22, the resurrected Jesus appeared to them and breathed into them the Holy Spirit. So now the Holy Spirit, which is the Spirit of Jesus, can now be breathed into us and dwell in us. Once He gets inside of a person, even that person cannot get Him out. That person can deny Him until the cows come home, but He is still inside of that person.

[mamabadger]

I/my church believes Christ rose from the dead, literally and bodily. As Illyka mentioned, we also believe he went through the entire experience of death, including being present with those in Hades who had died before him.
What happened in the larger sense is that God took on existence as a human being, and therefore when he died and returned from death, this changed human nature in a sense. As a human being Jesus could die; but since he was also God, who by definition is deathless, death itself had to change and "make way" for this anomaly. After Christ's death and resurrection, we all experience death differently; so the purpose of the Resurrection was to alter death. Our Resurrection icons show Christ emerging from the tomb and dragging other people out of the graves; and the main hymn we use on Pascha (Easter) goes:
"Christ is risen from the dead, trampling down death by death; and upon those in the tombs bestowing life."
So that is the main point.
I do know that belief in the Resurrection is considered essential and the cornerstone of all Christian doctrine. As St. Paul said, "if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith."
I have to assume the period of time Jesus spent on earth after his death was unique, and we can draw no conclusions about our own after-death experience from it. The Gospels quote him as saying we will not be the same after death and resurrection, not marrying or reproducing for example, but "like the angels." This seems to imply our resurrected bodies will be changed and perfected, as we would assume Jesus' body was after he left the earth.

[Shami]

"What does the resurrection REALLY mean?"

The short answer is that now the Lord is the Spirit and He can get inside of you to become one with you, which gives you eternal life and ultimately affords the way for you to be organically joined to God for eternity.

This is wonderful!

[Shami]

What's even more wonderful is that we don't have to wait until Easter to celebrate His resurrection. If He is in you already, then so is His resurrection life. This means we can celebrate, and experience His resurrection life daily. His resurrection power blasted Him from Hades, the core of the earth, through the earth and the earth's atmosphere all the way up to the Father. This was all after He had conquered death, sin, Satan, and the world. Nope, He wasn't tired at all.

Have you ever had the experience of being really exhausted and headachy and then go to a gathering where the Lord was the center and leave exhilarated? Now that is resurrection life even reaching your mortal body!

That is wonderful!

I would love to hear how others experience His resurrection life.

[Kidzaplenty]

[Shami]

John 12

23 And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified.

24 Truly, truly, I say to you, Unless the grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it abides alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit.

25 He who loves his soul-life loses it; and he who hates his soul-life in this world shall keep it unto eternal life.

26 If anyone serves Me, let him follow Me; and where I am, there also My servant will be. If anyone serves Me, the Father will honor him.

I love how God gave us physical things on earth as pictures to understand spiritual things.
When a grain of wheat is planted, it has a hard outer shell and it doesn't look like much. It really looks dead. When it is planted the outer shell breaks and all the DNA of the wheat grain develops to eventually produce many grains of wheat.

The Lord was buried as a grain of wheat and in His resurrection all the believers were born. Ephesians 2 says this:

5 Even when we were dead in offenses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)

6 And raised us up together with Him and seated us together with Him in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus,

Through His death and resurrection the church, the body of Christ, was produced. We are the many grains! We are the fruit of His death and resurrection. We are His continuation on earth. He was the prototype and we are His reproduction.

In our practical experience, we can experience His death and resurrection by taking up our cross and dying to our self in order that He may be expressed through us. When we are really following the Lord and serving the Lord, we become a slave of Christ, which is a killing of our natural man (our self). Life is no longer about us and what we want, rather it is about Him and what He wants. John 12 says that the Lord was troubled in His soul about going to the cross, but He wanted the Father to be glorified so He gave Himself up willingly.

The previous paragraph may sound like a terrible not so fun life, but it's not like that...really. To take the cross is to turn to the Lord in your spirit. Every time we turn to the Lord we are turning away from our self and opening to Him so that He can work out whatever it is that is in us. Turning to the Lord and letting Him be our Head is taking the cross, and the Lord can flood us with grace to handle any situation. He is the living water and full of supply. This is the way we can experience His death and resurrection daily.

[Janelovesmax]

Originally Posted by mamabadger

I/my church believes Christ rose from the dead, literally and bodily. As Illyka mentioned, we also believe he went through the entire experience of death, including being present with those in Hades who had died before him.
What happened in the larger sense is that God took on existence as a human being, and therefore when he died and returned from death, this changed human nature in a sense. As a human being Jesus could die; but since he was also God, who by definition is deathless, death itself had to change and "make way" for this anomaly. After Christ's death and resurrection, we all experience death differently; so the purpose of the Resurrection was to alter death. Our Resurrection icons show Christ emerging from the tomb and dragging other people out of the graves; and the main hymn we use on Pascha (Easter) goes:
"Christ is risen from the dead, trampling down death by death; and upon those in the tombs bestowing life."
So that is the main point.
I do know that belief in the Resurrection is considered essential and the cornerstone of all Christian doctrine. As St. Paul said, "if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith."
I have to assume the period of time Jesus spent on earth after his death was unique, and we can draw no conclusions about our own after-death experience from it. The Gospels quote him as saying we will not be the same after death and resurrection, not marrying or reproducing for example, but "like the angels." This seems to imply our resurrected bodies will be changed and perfected, as we would assume Jesus' body was after he left the earth.

That's how I feel as well.