Do you think this was a wheat or gluten allergic reaction?

[UrbanSimplicity]

I eczema off and on through my childhood and for most of my adult life I have had an extremely itchy (and unsightly) patch on half of my right hand. At the start of this year I went gluten free, and mostly grain free, though I eat the occasional serving of rice *and* have 1-2 slices of wheat sourdough bread each day.

Eczema? Gone!! Though when I had a slice of pizza, or falafel with pita from local restaurants, I had a bit of an itch about 24 hours later.

Does anyone have an idea as to which the cause was - wheat or gluten?? I have yet to test, right now I am just enjoying my itch-free life and waiting for my leathery-looking skin to heal!

TIA!

[mamafish9]

I'm confused - wheat sourdough bread would have both wheat and gluten, so it sounds like that's not what you're reacting to. Have you cut anything else out?

[kjbrown92]

I thought the same thing mamafish....

[UrbanSimplicity]

yes - but it's been soured - and the gluten has been broken down. Often times celiacs can handle sourdough bread. But I'm wondering if the wheat proteins could become less allergy-inducing from the process??

As I write this, I'm thinking it is the gluten that is most affected when making sourdough....I guess I just need to try a bowl of oatmeal?

[mamafish9]

I know that's what the sourdough folks want us to believe, LOL... FWIW, my son reacted to soured bread when he was gluten reacting - and he wasn't particularly sensitive. I think it does help break down the gluten, but I don't think it gets it anywhere close to gluten free.

It may be that the quantity of gluten in non-soured stuff is an issue for you, or it might be a different ingredient (there's lots of soy, dough conditioners, and other blecky stuff in most commercial breads).

[UrbanSimplicity]

well, i have not eaten breads with anything other than a few real ingredients for years. thanks for the food for thought - i will check back in later so keep the ideas coming

[mamafish9]

Sorry, I was thinking things like commercial pizza crust or pita bread, weren't those ones you reacted to?

Do you make the sourdough yourself? If so, I'd try the exact same ingredients, but not soured, and see if you react. Or if you buy it, does the same company make a non-soured version with the same ingredients.

If it is a volume issue (a little gluten is OK, a lot isn't), you might find a gluten targeted digestive enzyme really helpful (we use gluten ease by enzymedica, there are others - you want one with lots of DPPIV).

[kjbrown92]

I found this, which is interesting. However they're using speficic strains of bacteria to reduce the gluten amount in sourdough bread (look at the 3rd study listed), not just any old starter. So it may be possible. I'd never heard of anything about sourdough reducing the gluten in bread. How weird!! Now if I only knew which I reacted to! (my kids reacted to both wheat and gluten on the ALCAT test, so I'm figuring it wouldn't be safe for them either way)

[mamafish9]

Kathy, that was a very specific (and non publicly available) starter - I looked, back when we were off gluten, since I love sourdough . I've read that regular sourdough starters can reduce gluten by 60-95% in the final bread, depending on the starter and how long they were soured. However, storebought "sourdough" bread usually doesn't qualify, because it doesn't get the long rising time of a true sourdough.

[kjbrown92]

Oh, I know that. It's just that it does sound promising. I had never heard of such a thing (I was thinking more about in the future that they would isolate the good one and manufacture it specifically for gluten-free people).

[UrbanSimplicity]

I'm pretty sure the pizza dough and pita were just flour, salt, yeast since they are made right there in front of you at the places I ate. So it still seems to be wheat vs. gluten, not another mystery ingredient.

I do make sourdough myself, occasionally, but more often then not buy from a local bakery, see here: http://www.breadalone.com/shop/cart....ct_detail&p=12

Ironically, I made bread today and tried to use my wheat starter with a gluten free flour by Red Mill. Ingredients are: chickpeas, tapioca, fava beans and potato starch --- my hand with eczema was completely burning as soon as I began kneading the dough! I do not remember that ever happening when I use regular (wheat) flour, though I guess there's a slight chance I just did not notice in the past because nearly everything hurt my hand.

Anyhow, after about 2-3 months of no eczema (just the minor flare-ups after minor 'cheating') I ate some macaroni and cheese with rosemary focacia today. Needless to say my hand is suffering! When will I learn!?

Off to read the studies.....

[kjbrown92]

Is it possible that it's yeast vs. sourdough yeast?

[Koalamom]

Originally Posted by UrbanSimplicity

I do make sourdough myself, occasionally, but more often then not buy from a local bakery, see here: http://www.breadalone.com/shop/cart....ct_detail&p=12

I love that bakery. I have his (dan leaders) book, and used to live near the bakery.

[DevaMajka]

Could it be what's ON the bread? The falafal and the gf bread you made would both have chickpeas, right? But the pizza wouldn't...hmmm. I wonder if it could be two different things. Or an herb or spice that is common to all of them.
Do you eat dairy regularly (ie, do you know it isn't dairy?)

[mamafish9]

I'm guessing it's not wheat or gluten. You can ask the bakery, but it looks like they make sourdough bread where you sour some of the flour, but then add regular flour after (and don't do a 18+hr rise with that). In which case there would be both wheat and gluten protein in the bread.

Maybe yeast strains, maybe glutamates (high in both yeasts and cheese), maybe a vitamin additive to the flour?

[Koalamom]

I now the bakery and they do a 6-8 hour ferment. This is actually a long time for a store bought sourdough bread.

Whoa, 18 hours? That must be some sour bread! I have tried fermenting my bread that long, but I have amine issues. So it is a trade of gluten for amines.

[UrbanSimplicity]

Thanks everyone for all the help brainstorming!

I feel pretty sure it's wheat/yeast/gluten even though I am def not reacting to the Bread Alone sourdough. I did elimination diets and was dairy free for over a year because of my oldest dd's allergies so I feel like I've done lots of experimenting but this is the first time I get relief from eczema. When I did elim diets, I always added wheat products back in fairly quickly because dd never reacted, but I never considered it might work for my own problems. I've also had a round bloated belly all day long (except upon waking) since my teen years. But these past few months of no wheat or gluten, I have a flat belly (even eating the Bread Alone Sourdough).

btw - today I'm really paying for that foccacia with mac and cheese! my habd is dry, stiff, cracked and ITCHY!!

[UrbanSimplicity]

Also wanted to say I feel like (an another poster suggested) it's a question of *how much* wheat/yeast/gluten I'm consuming. (Although 2 slices a day does seem to be a significant amount.......)

[mamafish9]

6-8 hour ferment and you're getting plenty of wheat & gluten (see the blog post Kathy linked to below - 24 hour fermentation of "regular" wheat bread reduces gluten by 75%, so your bread probably has more like 50% of original gluten levels). That doesn't sound like a straight up intolerance. So I'd guess it might be yeast strains, or the volume of non-predigested wheat/gluten. It might be interesting to try a gluten targeted digestive enzyme, and see what happens.

[Koalamom]

Originally Posted by mamafish9

6-8 hour ferment and you're getting plenty of wheat & gluten (see the blog post Kathy linked to below - 24 hour fermentation of "regular" wheat bread reduces gluten by 75%, so your bread probably has more like 50% of original gluten levels). That doesn't sound like a straight up intolerance. So I'd guess it might be yeast strains, or the volume of non-predigested wheat/gluten. It might be interesting to try a gluten targeted digestive enzyme, and see what happens.

Interesting point. Heirloom wheat is supposed to have 500 times LESS gluten and opposed to GMO wheat. A 6-8 hour ferment may be enough with the Bread Alone bread my the type of wheat used.