UPDATE: Relatives giving me a massive headache.... WELCOME LITTLE ONE!!!

[tammylsmith]

I left my original post because I thought others would enjoy hearing my journey. DS was born April 10th, beautiful and perfect. As soon as Dh held him for the first time, all delicate and cooing gently, he looked up at me and said "you were right."

Of course, that was enough to make my heart burst with love and relief, but then hearing him explain again and again to relatives why we weren't circing.... it was just beautiful, and every time I change my son's diaper, I am forever thankful that he will remain perfect and whole. Here are the joyful family pics:

http://share.shutterfly.com/view/fla...Act2TNi1ZtWL8g








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I have been posting a lot here lately... I guess because my due date is approaching and it is sending dh into a panic. I thought he was coming a long so nicely on the logic front, but then I think the Jr high schooler in him (who got picked on) keeps popping into his head and he is just sooo afraid that his friends/family will think we are weird. He is also worried that they will think he is spineless for not "standing up" to me.... even though he friggin' AGREES with me if I force him to really stare the issue down and stop side stepping it. Grrr. In any case, I guess he went to talk to his parents, who live close by, even though I thought it would have been better to wait and bring this up AFTER the baby. My FIL, bless his heart, is not exactly with us on it, but at least he said "eh, you'll love him and enjoy him and it will end up being no biggie." My MIL, however, is a fusspot, and she keeps emailing dh things like (I heard there was this one guy in Ireland who got phimosis at 21 and had to be circumcised then....) So now I am back in aggravationville, trying to get dh back into the right frame of mind that THIS REALLY ISN'T SUCH A BIG DEAL. Our son's penis will NOT self destruct in a puff of smoke and the sun will come up the day after he is born despite our decision to do things our own way. I know, this story gets repeated again and again ad nauseum on this board, but I just want to vent to people who are on the logic band wagon. My argument MAKES SENSE and is literally being stacked up against thin air and people question why I am the weird one? I basically told MIL that she made her decision 30ish years ago and now it is my turn. Butt out. No further discussion necessary. To dh, I restated that I have nothing but respect for what I know is a very difficult thing for him to aknowledge, but that he really knows deep down what is the right thing to do. I do not feel like I am just steamrolling over him, and took great pains to listen to him. I can't wait until this baby comes so everyone will just shut up and get over it!!

[shishkeberry]

My ex's father gave that as evidence that I must have been cheating on his son, because there was no way HIS son would agree to leaving our DS intact. According to him that meant that my DS wasn't his real grandson. Guess who hasn't seen DS since he was a week old?

[outlier]

Ugh, I'd stay as far away from that brainwashed negativity as possible right now. If your dh wants to run to his parents and brainstorm all the ways that your son's penis will bring about the downfall of civilization, I say let them. You can "meet up" with them again when the birth is over and the focus will shift to your son as a whole person.

Hopefully this is just your dh's one final frenzied push for circ while your son is still something of an abstract concept to him. He's not seeing an innocent baby who will turn into a boy who will eventually become a man who may want to make his own decisions about his own body. I would think once your son is here, and your dh can see with his own eyes that he's an actual person and so much more than just his genitals, those feelings would fade pretty quickly.

Best wishes for a happy, healthy birth! I hope one day your son understands just how lucky he is to have you as his mom.

[eepster]

Originally Posted by tammylsmith

I heard there was this one guy in Ireland who got phimosis at 21 and had to be circumcised then....

Considering that the infant circ rate in Ireland is probably about 1% I wouldn't be that concerned that one guy out of some 2 million Irish guys need to be circ'd for phimosis, which they actually have a non-surgical treatment for these days.

I have lived in NJ most of my life. Trust me, your DS will just be one of many many intact boys in junior high.

[RheaSilva]

Oh, for goodness sake!!! Your MIL seems to have taken an unhealthy interest in your son's penis. Have you tried coming right out and saying, "MIL, may I ask why you are so interested in baby-to-be's penis? It's really unusual for someone to be so vested in another person's foreskin."

Ah well, maybe not. But it's a nice thought, anyway!

[KristyDi]

Originally Posted by tammylsmith

he is just sooo afraid that his friends/family will think we are weird. He is also worried that they will think he is spineless for not "standing up" to me....

I'd really think he was spineless if he allowed what others might think of his relationship w/ his wife to convince him to cut healthy tissue from his son's penis.

Sorry I know that's not very helpful. I'm feeling neither diplomatic nor tactful this afternoon. Maybe someone with more tact can re-phrase it in a way that might help.

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

My Fil and my mom gave me the hardest time. My FIL took it upon himself to jump me at 2 days PP when he had to drive me to the ped's cause ds was jaundiced.

My mom had good reason to worry due to my older brother being circed at 3yo due to the ignorance of a Dr. So to avoid future problems my younger brother was circed at birth

[tammylsmith]

Thanks everyone. It feels so good just to get the frustration off my chest. I am so sick and tired of this particular merry go round discussion. The decision has been made for so long. I am happy that dh and I managed to keep everyone else in the family out of the discussion, including my own mom, who will no doubt have her own opinions that I don't care to hear. I wish he had held out another week and kept it to himself until after the baby came, but they'll get over it. I mostly just don't feel like having this discussion at all right now with anyone. I sent MIL a pretty firmly worded email. Hopefully that nips it in the bud and I can have peace for the next week. Here is what I wrote:


"I just wanted to let you know that I have given the issue considerable thought, as I would with any surgery one of our children was to go through. I have done extensive reading on the subject, because I don't take it lightly, nor do I accept that it is 'just done" any more than any other surgery. I went to see Dr M about this issue, since he is a very trusted medical figure in our lives who also has the benefit of being from a country where circumcising is not the norm (Actually, fun fact... America is the only country in the world, besides a few in Africa, that practices infant circumcision for non religious reasons. I am unaware of an epidemic sweeping Europe of exploding infected penises, and am pretty sure we rank somewhere around 28th in the world for our great health outcomes... so I guess all of our healthy extra neonatal surgeries aren't helping us as much as we think they are )

He was wonderful to talk to and very reassuring. He told me what I already knew from my own extensive research, and advice from both midwives. Neonatal circumcision has absolutely no medical basis or benefit (there is not a single medical institution in the world that recommends it. Our own conservative AAP considers it to be "nontheraputic"). It is a cultural/religious norm that has been established, and I certainly respect anyone's claims that they want their son circumcised based on their beliefs. There are a few claims out there about UTI's, HIV, penile cancer and phimosis. I would be happy to go through one by one with those, but in the interest of time and email space, I'll just say that if you do an objective risk/benefit analysis like you would for any other surgery, it becomes very clear that the benefits are just not worth it. Even M, who would rather have found a good reason to support the practice, came to the same conclusion I did after looking around on his own. Dr. M also dispelled any thoughts of an intact penis being unclean. He is intact, as are his two sons, and their (American) pediatrician's two sons. His point was that cleaning a penis is not really much different with or without foreskin. Problems are rare. Just leave it alone. It will not be retractable until well after our son is out of diapers, so urine and feces will not be getting in there. On the contrary, circumcision creates an open wound in a diaper, and then the delicate tissue of the penis is then continuously exposed to feces and urine. This does not seem like a way to create conditions of optimal health or cleanliness to me.

So basically, it comes down to this: It is highly likely that our son will love his penis equally, circumcised or not. (most boys do) If I am wrong, he can always get the surgery later in life to suit his needs, though most intact men seem perfectly happy. The foreskin is, after all, a sexual part filled with lots of nerve endings. The point is that it is his penis and his decision to make. There are no valid medical concerns to direct me to do this, but on the other hand I do know that it is a painful procedure that will cause stress, bleeding and an open wound I have to treat for at least a week. Locker room concerns don't really stack up if you think about it either (I asked Matt how many of his friends' privates he remembers... which was exactly 0... besides the fact that mandatory showers are much less common and with statistics like they are, our son will likely not be alone in being intact. In any case, I am not prepared for microdermabrasion to cure his freckles, lasik surgery for his glasses and liposuction for his body fat... or whatever kids decide to pick on him for in a future I cannot see) I keep coming back to the same simple idea...


What is the point?


So there you have my argument in a nutshell. I will not be changing my mind on the topic. M is very uncomfortable with the whole situation, but mostly because he is worried his family will pick on him for making a "different" decision. He agrees that this is unnecessary and has even said that at this point, he probably wouldn't choose to do it either based on the information at hand. He will also talk with Dr. M about this. His opinion and thoughts have been very important to me all along during our discussions. I know it isn't an easy decision, but I am interested in making the right decision for us, not the easy one. Really, I think the whole fuss is silly, and once we meet the baby and all his 2000 parts, who is really going to care whether or not he is circumcised? Just rest-assured that this decision is coming from a very educated and loving place. You made your decision to the best of your ability 30+ years ago. Now it is my turn. Please respect that and understand that this topic is not open for discussion beyond simple love and support (it stresses M out to feel like his is stuck between you and I on an issue, and stress is not very helpful to either of us right now).

Thanks!

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

I like it To the point and no way she can misinterpret that it is up for discussion.

[tammylsmith]

MIL redeemed herself quite a bit and it looks like the AAP's conservative info still managed to reassure her. Let's hope they don't change their recommendation based on the whole HIV thing. In any case, here is what she said, to which I give her a lot of credit:

MIL said she read the APP info and it "certainly makes a wonderful argument for not circumcising". She also said "If I had to make a decision on that now, I know I would have had a more difficult time. I may have gone with not circumcising as well, had that information been available at the time." Finally, she also added "Dad and I certainly would not think any differently towards this new baby because of what the decision is. It is not our business. Besides it's his little penis and it has a right to be whatever way is right for him and you guys."

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

Your MIL sounds like a great lady. Being willing to learn is a big plus

[zinemama]

If I were you, I would have titled this "Dh giving me a massive headache."

What earthly reason did he have to bring up the state of his son's penis with his mother??

Boundary issues much?

Some things are not meant to be discussed outside the couple and this is sure as hell one of them. I'd be furious. It's great that your MIL changed her mind, but it shouldn't have happened in the first place. Your dh needs to learn to keep private parenting decisions private.

[shishkeberry]

Originally Posted by MCatLvrMom2A&X

Your MIL sounds like a great lady. Being willing to learn is a big plus

I agree...your MIL sounds pretty cool.

[Fellow Traveler]

Congratulations for your son, such a lucky boy. And at least your MIL is willing to learn; that is a big plus.

[tammylsmith]

Yes, I am very fortunate in my situation, I know. It is nice that this situation went from being a big aggravation to being a starting point for a conversation (albeit one I would rather wait to have). I was literally awake all night with rebuttals swirling in my head to head MIL off at the pass. I am so happy that it ended up resolving itself more or less. Yes, Dh is driving me crazy with his behavior, but I keep reminding myself that it isn't Dh who is saying/doing some of this, it is the scared kid inside who doesn't want to be "different." I also know that he is just having trouble coming to terms with the fact that his parents had him circ'd. His feeling (rationalization) is that it didn't harm him in the long run, so it can't be that bad,right? He doesn't want something to be wrong with him. Of course, I don't let him get away with that one. But in any case, thank you all for listening to the hormonal, huge pregnant lady. It really helped so much.... especially when it seemed like noone else was listening.

[QueenOfTheMeadow]

That's awesome!! I know it wasn't any of your MILs business, but now, your MIL has information that may someday come up in a conversation with someone else. It may actually end up helping someone else make the decision to leave their baby intact!

[jessjgh1]

Concentrate now on a happy healthy peaceful amazing birth and welcoming your little one!!! Enjoy!
Jessica

[PuppyFluffer]

I love a happy ending. Now I await the news of this little boy's arrival! ( Pictures of cute squishy babies are always adored too!)

[tammylsmith]

Oh I'll definitely post pictures soon. You guys are the best I have gotten so much support from the ladies and gents on this board, and support is important to any pregnant mommy who is trying to stand up for what's right.... it is so hard sometimes, and I actually think I've had it easier than some. I know it feels frustrating sometimes when people don't listen, but this board is incredibly vital to the movement for genital integrity. Mommies and their baby boys need you. Thanks for every post and word of wisdom you pass along!

Good news too, Dh has eased up. I think hearing his mom and dad supporting the decision... especially his mom saying she might not have had him circumcised had she known what we know now... well it all helped things click into place. I feel like a weight has been lifted from my mind, and I can go into this birthing time now with joy knowing the tension is gone for good! A beautiful new, whole baby boy will be born soon along with a brand new intactivist . Thanks everyone!

[PuppyFluffer]

It's been wonderful watching your progress with this issue and your family. It really is a process for most people who are so culturally inclined to accept circumcision as the norm and intact as strange.
Thank you for sharing your journey. It really helps those of us who try to educate others to see the success and know that we've helped a family.
I wish you a wonderful peaceful birth!