Down right nasty little girl!!! What to do.

[Ravenlunatic]

So my 5.5 year old DD is down right nasty. She is sassy and disrespectful some of the time, lovely and polite others. I know the kids go through different stages and any bad habit they develope will most likely pass with a little intervention and guidance. But this one I absolutely can not stand any longer... I will soon be insane.

I can take the 'I hate you's" and the 'you can't make me do that's' and many more developementally appropriate phases. What I cannot stand is her calling me stupid and sticking out her tongue at me. Does anyone else allow this? Like this too shall pass....? I get it if I accidentally bump into her, I get it when I tell her to go get dressed for school, and I get it just about anytime. Not all the time, but like today she is on a rampage with it.

I have tried to be really firm with her but that usually backfires. I have told her it hurts my feelings but she seems aloof... what would be natural consequences? How can I cope? I am ready to pummel her myself

[yokosmile]

She's exploring her self-identity. It's all about her, not you or anyone else. Everyone is the center of their own universe, children at that age especially. When her behavior is undesirable, retract from her. That's the natural consequence. When we treat people unkindly, they pull away. She'll learn that in time.

[One_Girl]

When my dd goes overboard I tell her her feelings are fine and validate whatever she appears to be feeling, then I tell her she needs to go into her room to talk badly about other people or act in certain ways in private because there are certain things we don't do or say in front of other people, even if the other person is me.

[EmilyVorpe]

Im right there with you...My son is going to be 6 in July, and he has been...awful...since he turned 5. What makes me tick is being told no repeatedly when I tell him (I refuse to ASK him to clean his room..its not an option so I wont phrase it as one). He says no, that he wont do it, and he doesnt care what I say about it. Oh, and he screams at me...like, loud and short screams at me when hes mad. Grrrr.
I feel terrible, because my other children act so lovely and it makes me feel bad that I dont think hes so lovely like them...

[greenkids]

I agree with yokosmile. Pull away. Maybe instead of sending her to her room you go to yours. When she needs you & has to go to her hurt momma that may appeal to her sensitive side. Good luck, my DD is about to turn 5 & I see it coming.

[honeybunmom]

If I can only remember to start giving her warnings each time this happens, I'd get through it much more quickly. Disengage. When I can remember, I tell her I will not have this argument/discussion/be spoken to in this way. I am her mother and her words are disrespectful. She gets 2 warnings and the 3rd time she is sent to her room. Last night, we were in her room already, so, I had to tell her I was leaving because I would not continue to be with her while she spoke to me so disrespectfully. My daughter turned 4 the end of October. Fun times, indeed.

[MommytoB]

Totlally the same for Brendan whose 5 1/2 yrs too . I learned to get him less negative is too keep him Busy , active, etc So we go out he rides bikes, scooter, swims, loves to bounce on bouncy houses, on weekends or days off he heads to the school to play in the bigger playground area that's for the 4th to 6th graders when he's out at recess so he has to play at the other playground from k-3.

I'm going to take him to the carnival tomorrow with bouncy houses, kids klubhouse on saturday then the circus. geyser park on sunday it will be in the 60's a good weather time for miniature golf.

[Hanbonem]

I've been putting my 5.5 DS into "verbal timeout" when he goes on his (thankfully more and more infrequent) tirades agains my husband and myself. Basically he's speaking crazy talk, he knows it deep down, and has been very accepting of being made to stop talking till he's over it. He can do whatever he wants to do, he just isn't allowed to speak anymore for a little while because he's saying hurtful or nasty things and I don't need to listen to it.

[*bejeweled*]

I never ever put up with nasty talk. She goes straight to time out. Every single time.

I have absolutely zero patience with kids that disrespect their mothers.

[Mirzam]

Originally Posted by Hanbonem

I've been putting my 5.5 DS into "verbal timeout" when he goes on his (thankfully more and more infrequent) tirades agains my husband and myself. Basically he's speaking crazy talk, he knows it deep down, and has been very accepting of being made to stop talking till he's over it. He can do whatever he wants to do, he just isn't allowed to speak anymore for a little while because he's saying hurtful or nasty things and I don't need to listen to it.

Aren't you in the least bit concerned that you are giving him the message that his words are of no value, by not allowing him to express himself. How would you feel if you were trying to express your feelings and were told you couldn't speak because they were unacceptable? I am not judging you on your disciplinary methods, but just wondering if it might not be counter-productive in the long run.

Originally Posted by *bejeweled*

I never ever put up with nasty talk. She goes straight to time out. Every single time.

I have absolutely zero patience with kids that disrespect their mothers.

I trust you treat your child, and everyone else for that matter, with the utmost respect in return and that you never talk "nasty". After-all shouldn't we model the behavior we wish to see in others?

[journeymom]

Originally Posted by Ravenlunatic

So my 5.5 year old DD is down right nasty. She is sassy and disrespectful some of the time, lovely and polite others. I know the kids go through different stages and any bad habit they develope will most likely pass with a little intervention and guidance. But this one I absolutely can not stand any longer... I will soon be insane.

I can take the 'I hate you's" and the 'you can't make me do that's' and many more developementally appropriate phases. What I cannot stand is her calling me stupid and sticking out her tongue at me. Does anyone else allow this? Like this too shall pass....? I get it if I accidentally bump into her, I get it when I tell her to go get dressed for school, and I get it just about anytime. Not all the time, but like today she is on a rampage with it.

I have tried to be really firm with her but that usually backfires. I have told her it hurts my feelings but she seems aloof... what would be natural consequences? How can I cope? I am ready to pummel her myself

I sympathize! Both my kids did this once or twice when they were that age. They're 15 and almost 11 y.o. now. I never 'allowed' it, I always countered it, but honestly I doubt my discipline methods are what made them stop. I think they just got over it.

Originally Posted by greenkids

I agree with yokosmile. Pull away. Maybe instead of sending her to her room you go to yours. When she needs you & has to go to her hurt momma that may appeal to her sensitive side. Good luck, my DD is about to turn 5 & I see it coming.

I agree. Don't send her to her room, you leave her. You send her to her room if she throws a book across the room in anger, because 1) obviously she'd need to cool off (the point of time-outs) and 2) it's not personal. Sticking her tongue out at Mom and calling Mom 'stupid' is personal and hurtful. So withdraw yourself. Frankly, she may or may not really get it, but it is the logical consequence.

Originally Posted by Mirzam

Aren't you in the least bit concerned that you are giving him the message that his words are of no value, by not allowing him to express himself. How would you feel if you were trying to express your feelings and were told you couldn't speak because they were unacceptable? I am not judging you on your disciplinary methods, but just wondering if it might not be counter-productive in the long run.

On the contrary, I think she's communicating loud and clear to her ds that his words are very powerful and significant. And, no, hurtful or nasty things simply are not acceptable.

It's obviously not OK for a parent to speak to a child hurtfully, so why in the world would it be OK for a child to speak to a parent that way?

Originally Posted by Mirzam

I trust you treat your child, and everyone else for that matter, with the utmost respect in return and that you never talk "nasty". After-all shouldn't we model the behavior we wish to see in others?

Huh? Did Bejeweled indicate anywhere that she does anything but??

[*bejeweled*]

Originally Posted by Mirzam

I trust you treat your child, and everyone else for that matter, with the utmost respect in return and that you never talk "nasty". After-all shouldn't we model the behavior we wish to see in others?

I try my best. And I expect my DD (age 7) to do the same. She almost always does because this is what was modeled for her.

She also knows the consequences for talking nasty to her mother and others.

[Lindsay1234]

Im with bejewled on this one. Nasty talk is not tolerated and doenst get any warnings.

I have a fairly laid back kid anyway so stern talking works. "You will not talk to me or anyone else that way again. Those are mean words and we dont talk like that" "We dont stick tongues at anyone, its rude and you will NOT do that again"
If she kept talking like that, I take away privilidges, 1 week at gymnastics, her roller skates, a new book I bought her (believe me, under the threat of taking books away, she becomes a MODEL child) Ive actually come through a few times on taking away those things, and boy was she upset! Learned FAST though. I always tell her too "I cant let you go to gym and take the chance that youre going to be this rude to your teachers or classmates, you cant go again until you stop"

If she ever did something like throwing a toy or book, its gone. We work really hard to buy her nice things so if she acts like that, out comes the box for goodwill and off goes the stuff to kids who will respect it more!

FWIW, I dont spank, yell or say hurtful things to my dd. Never have. She is an AMAZING kid. Never in trouble, great grades, loves her little sis and still loves snuggling in bed with us. She was in trouble the other day and after she realized what she did, she came up and gave me a very heartfelt apology (along with an offer of a back massage! lol)

Just an example of how MY style of discipline works for us. (not belittling anyone elses)

Good luck, that age is so...trying!

ETA: I would put my foot down on all of it. If you allow I hate yous but not tongue sticking out, I think shell become confused as to what she can and cant do.

[journeymom]

Originally Posted by Lindsay1234

ETA: I would put my foot down on all of it. If you allow I hate yous but not tongue sticking out, I think shell become confused as to what she can and cant do.

Good point.

[Just1More]

No way. Disrespect doesn't fly around here.

I'm willing to help them find appropriate words to express themselves, but sticking out your tongue and uncontrolled "I hate you's" aren't it. That behavior isn't going to get them anywhere with me, or in life. So, we don't do it. Period.

My kids know how to say, "I'm so mad about this." Or whatever. And they don't have to start yelling and screaming about it. And they don't have to make it a personal attack.

That said, my 5yo isn't mouthy to me, usually, but she can really give it to other people. When only the nasty and bossy words are coming out, I make her put her hand on her mouth for a while to keep them in. (I wouldn't do this in front of the general public, but around home it works great.) After a minute or so, I suggest that maybe she can think of some nicer words to use, and a nicer tone and we try again.

[no5no5]

We have had no luck with talking about rudeness or hurt feelings. We have had no luck with time outs or other punishment. But talking about feelings (at other times, not at the time of the outburst) and other ways we can express them/deal with them has helped enormously. We helped DD find words she could use when she felt overwhelmingly angry that would be acceptable to us. We also got an anger management book, which is really for much older kids, but DD learned a bit from it anyway. Since we've done that, she almost always uses the words we agreed on. We understand what she means, and we are able to stay calm and work it out without getting our feathers ruffled.

I don't think that getting angry and yelling or punishing a child for expressing her feelings, however crudely she may do that, is a very good strategy from a modeling perspective.

[alikander]

I agree that these are phases, but also that hurtful behavior should not be tolerated.

I've been through this a few times with my dd (now 5.25). My approach was always, "I love you, but I can't stay with you right now. I don't deserve to be hurt." Sometimes it was difficult, because I was worried that I was letting her "win," or letting her have power over me, but it hasn't came to that yet.

What seems to have had a big impact the last time around (about 2 mos ago), was a serendipitous assist from a neutral source, her Tae Kwon Do class. In her class, they often dedicate the last 5 mins to a personal safety story time, called "Kid Power" (http://www.kidpower.org/). It so happened that the story one week was about using your "walk-away power" when someone is mean to you--e.g. a mean kid on the playground. That evening, when dd started to try to hurt me with her words ("I don't want to snuggle with you. I only want daddy." etc.) I turned the story on her, and told her I was using my walk-away power. I could see that it really hit her, and she got that hurting people, even me, is not okay.

I also try to remind myself that they only push against the one they know will never let them go. It's really a sign of love and trust, even if it doesn't feel like it.

And, I try to use humor and reverse psychology to defuse situations that could lead to angry words. If I can see I'm (somewhat legitimately) aggravating her, e.g. by making her rush to be on time for something, saying no to more screen time or treats, etc., I will joke that I'm "the meanest mom in town." Her contrariness forces her to deny this (win!), and then she has a chance to think out why I'm not doing what she wants. Don't know what I'm gonna do when this tactic stops working!

[Just1More]

I wanted to clarify my post. I am on a bit of a parenting journey, including a ton of reading and discussion with people IRL, and I am so disgusted with punishment! Rereading my post "making her put her hand on her mouth" sounds like a pretty punitive and "squish the little kid" style of parenting. But I'm not that way, and she doesn't take it that way.

It sounds more like this:

Her: whine. argue. bicker. be a jerk to her brother on purpose to make him mad.
Me (conversational tone, same one that would say, "oh look, there's a squirrel over there): That doesn't sound very nice back there. Talk nicely, please.
Her: acknowledge, yet continue nastiness.
Me: I'm only hearing nasty words come out of your mouth. You'd better put your hand over it to keep those words in for a while. (still even tone on my part, and oddly enough, complete compliance on hers.)

We have conversations about giving yourself helps when you aren't being who you want/need to be, and how grown-ups do that, too. So, she usually accepts my suggestion when I point out that she needs a little help to get through whatever it is. In this case, the temptation to be a snot when it really isn't necessary. We talk about other ways to help oneself during times when we don't feel like being nice. Like, going to be alone for a while, or taking a nap, getting a snack, etc.

The point is to teach her how to express herself, and guide her towards wisdom in the managing of her emotions and timing during conflicts. Not to stifle, just to guide. And to teach her how to do it BY HERSELF, without my constant watching. No, she isn't going to put her hand over her mouth as an adult, but she may very well bite her tongue. It's the same principle, just changed a bit for a child.

And not to shame or punish, which I fear was how my original post sounded. Ugh.

[karika]

my 6 yo also behaved this way. I have some to the realization after much research that this is not our children talking at all (IMO). I believe now it is caused by foods, and the things in the foods that are not foods. I am positive my dd has a yeast imbalance which manifests as behaviors. I have begun a clean diet- no gmo, no food colorings, no preservatives. we eat GFCFSFCF also. As soon as I got dairy (and soy, they act the same on the brain) completely out of her system, she changed a lot. Now I am working on the yeast imbalance in both of us. I am positive it is not her speaking, but the yeast that has changed her. I am also positive for my dd some of it is mimicry from shows she has seen on tv, like disney channel. We use a daily probiotic and I am researching the correct yeast protocol. What we ingest really does affect our behaviors and how we feel. You can get testing to find out if there are food intolerances (Igg) and an OAT test to determine if she has a nasty strain of bacteria or yeast overgrowth. Both of these exhibit as nasty behavior. This site has been a wealth of info for me. http://www.danasview.net/yeast.htm

[Autumn Breeze]

It will pass, but you're going to have to let her know that she's hurting you too.

When my son was doing this, yes he was testing his limits, and learning about himself. When he was calm, usually later that night, sometime before bedtime...I would sit down and tell him that I understood that he was upset about whatever had happened but that it not only hurt my feelings, but it hurt my heart when he talked to me that way.

He's 8 now, and when he's upset he usually just sulks, sometimes he'll slam a door and thump around his room making noise. I let him know that it's ok to have his feelings, and as long as he can be respectful to others during that time I will respect his space until he's calm. And then when he' ready I'm ready to talk to him.