6 month custody split

[ABrandNewName]

I'm posting under an assumed name so I can protect the confidentiality of the kids here.

I'm a preschool teacher. This year I have a 4 year old in my class who has a 5 year old brother in the class next door. The kids parents are separated and they spend 6 months with one parent, and then 6 months with the other. They attend our school regardless of which parent they're with.

Since the beginnining of the year they've been with Dad and seemed happy and well cared for.

They just switched back to Mom a few weeks ago, and already I can see a difference, they're coming in dirty, tired, and often late. The little boy has a scratch on his arm from fighting with his sister. In addition, they're demanding attention in a way that they weren't before. It's not so severe as to warrant a CPS call, but it's a marked change.

Dad just called my cell. He asked me if the little girl was absent, I said yes but only for one day. He said that he had heard she was sick and was worried because mom wouldn't tell him anything. He asked me to tell him if anything was wrong.

My question is, what information can I share? I feel bad for him not knowing what's going on with his kids. I also feel bad for the kids, but I'm not sure telling him is OK.

Alternatively, can I call him and tell him when things go well -- like if the little girl does something for the first time, like tie her shoes or something.

I should note that the mom has another child, of whom she has full custody, in 2nd grade in our school. So, when Dad had the kids I still saw mom regularly and could share accomplishments etc . . . That seemed natural and of course since they were doing so well, I had positive things to go say.

[honey-lilac]

As far as confidentiality goes, I would err on the safe side and undershare. Ask your supervisor, really that's something that they should be guiding you with. I would, I guess, want to have written permission to discuss the children with the other parent. And I wouldn't say negative things about the children (like dirtiness, lateness) myself; perhaps, if there really is a concern, notify your higher up and maybe have a conference with both parents present. Maybe. I would think your school has guidelines on how to handle this?

[Monkeygrrl]

I would err on the side of caution as well, as you don't want to be in the middle of a custody battle.

Maybe when Dad calls next you can suggest that he meet his kids at school in the mornings every so often, so he can see how his kids are coming to school. Maybe you can send a letter home to both parents stating that the children were coming to school prepared for the day, and now they are not and you are concerned. It would inform Dad of the situation, and let Mom know you are concerned and paying attention.

On the other hand, since you are a mandatory reporter, it would be a good idea to keep a close eye on things. Let the kids know that you care and that they can come to you if they need to talk or need a hug. It will go a long way for them to know they are safe at school.

That schedule has got to be so hard for them. ((kids))

peace...

[Captain_Crunch]

I personally would be FURIOUS if my son's educators kept important information/ concerns about my child's wellbeing because it happened to be his fathers week, month, whatever.

Unless there is some sort of legal documentation on file at your school which LEGALLY prevents you from telling him this, than you have no right to keep this information from him.. he is their parent regardless of custody.

I would hesitate to call him up out of the blue, but if he is asking you point blank.. answer.

Just my two cents.

[La Sombra]

Originally Posted by Captain_Crunch

I personally would be FURIOUS if my son's educators kept important information/ concerns about my child's wellbeing because it happened to be his fathers week, month, whatever.

Unless there is some sort of legal documentation on file at your school which LEGALLY prevents you from telling him this, than you have no right to keep this information from him.. he is their parent regardless of custody.

I would hesitate to call him up out of the blue, but if he is asking you point blank.. answer.

Just my two cents.

I totally agree! I can't imagine for one moment my childcare provider not being able to tell me what happened with dd yesterday because that was the dad she was with her dad! She's still my child and if she is sick or something is wrong, I expect to know about it!!!

On the other hand, this seems a LITTLE different in that some of the information might be about how the kids seems a little neglected in mom's care. It breaks my heart to think of those poor kids but then again if there is nothing REALLY alarming about how things are going when the kids are with mom, then sharing stuff with dad about how they seem a little dirtier or are late or seem to fight more might only get OP in trouble at work, and fuel a fire between the mom and dad that won't do anything to lead to improving the kids' well-being.

So I guess this is just a tricky one, but as for knowing about the sickness, *that* I would certainly share! And the accomplishments, etc., too--that seems perfectly reasonable to me!

[Latte Mama]

Forum crashing... It appears they have 50/50 so why not share the same info you shared with mom, with dad? Unless your employer has a policy prohibiting information being given out?

[Freedom~Mama]

Originally Posted by Captain_Crunch

I personally would be FURIOUS if my son's educators kept important information/ concerns about my child's wellbeing because it happened to be his fathers week, month, whatever.

Unless there is some sort of legal documentation on file at your school which LEGALLY prevents you from telling him this, than you have no right to keep this information from him.. he is their parent regardless of custody.

I would hesitate to call him up out of the blue, but if he is asking you point blank.. answer.

Just my two cents.

I totally agree! Well said.

I also would def. want to know anything going on with my kids when they are with their dad. They are not with him much so it is different in my case but in your case I would def. tell the Dad what is going on if he calls and asks.

[vocalise]

If it's only been a couple of weeks since they switched homes, there's a good chance that some of what you're seeing is everyone--kids and mom--adjusting to the transition.

In this case, I'd think that mentioning to dad (if he asks again) that the kids seem to be going through an adjustment period would be sufficient, at least until you see a longer-term pattern, kwim?

[Theia]

Originally Posted by Captain_Crunch

I personally would be FURIOUS if my son's educators kept important information/ concerns about my child's wellbeing because it happened to be his fathers week, month, whatever.

Unless there is some sort of legal documentation on file at your school which LEGALLY prevents you from telling him this, than you have no right to keep this information from him.. he is their parent regardless of custody.

I would hesitate to call him up out of the blue, but if he is asking you point blank.. answer.

Just my two cents.

It is my understanding that schools do have a privacy policy and there should be guidelines on what you can share with who and when. Sometimes these types of things are also outlined in divorce/custody agreements.

I'm not saying that if it were my child that I wouldn't want to be told.... but I do think that legally you are probably only allowed to say so much. I would check with your school because sharing information that is supposed to be legally protected by the paperwork that you and the parents both signed when accepting employment or seeking services most likely probably outlined the rules that apply here.

[Maluhia]

Transitions are hard on kids, I'd share your observations but maybe withhold any judgment. It takes DD many weeks to adjust to her father coming and going with the military.

[lucysmom]

Originally Posted by Theia

It is my understanding that schools do have a privacy policy and there should be guidelines on what you can share with who and when. Sometimes these types of things are also outlined in divorce/custody agreements.

I'm not saying that if it were my child that I wouldn't want to be told.... but I do think that legally you are probably only allowed to say so much. I would check with your school because sharing information that is supposed to be legally protected by the paperwork that you and the parents both signed when accepting employment or seeking services most likely probably outlined the rules that apply here.

I think the presumption is the opposite. A parent has the right to all the information the school has about his or her child, except under very unusual circumstances that result in an affirmative curtailing of that right through a court order. If such a thing exists, it should be known to the school and all of the children's teachers/care providers. If not, both parents have the same right to ask for information, regardless of which parent the children are staying with that day/week/month.

I also agree with the PPs that tired, dirty and late, with stress, can reflect a lot of things that are not bad parenting. Mom may work at a less flexible job with tougher hours than dad. It would be surprising if there was not a lot of stress associated with the transition from one home to the other. Without more, I don't think there is any basis to deduce that there is a problem per se. Not to say that there might not be one -- just no reason to conclude that there is. Obviously it is so great that you, OP, are attentive and notice these changes and care. Hopefully if there IS a problem, it will become evident to you and you can at that time staff the situation with the rest of the school personnel and decide on an appropriate course of action.

[meemee]

I am on the other side.

I would be furious if you as the teacher was talking to the non custodial parent (for the moment). this is something i expect the director/owner of the school to do so.

already the way you write - dirty, tired are all v. judgemental terms.

if i was a dad who wants to create trouble that is the exact kind of info i would be looking for.

in dd's ps/dc the teacher wasnt allowed to answer those kind of questions. they had to do so with the director/owner who knew how to correctly answer the questions.

there is a protocol that you guys should have regarding this matter. the teacher regularly wrote notes about what the children were doing. and both parents got that note. not one over the other.

you as a teacher are already taking sides. and that in my books is a big no no. you sound much more sympethetic towards the father than the mother. and without any investigation or finding out based on what you see you have already mentioned CPS. did you observe them 6 months ago when they did mom to dad's house switch?

btw is he allowed to have your personal cell no? i find that quite strange.

poor kids. 6 months with each parent in the same city. wow! i cant imagine that and how that can be easy on the kids.

please know i am not judging you. just telling you that what you might be doing out of the goodness of your heart you need to be more careful about it.

to me it should be about fairness and at this time you dont sound fair.

if i was the mom i would be pissed if you were saying anything to the dad. or worse volunteering info.

[Latte Mama]

Originally Posted by meemee

to me it should be about fairness and at this time you dont sound fair.

if i was the mom i would be pissed if you were saying anything to the dad. or worse volunteering info.

But I think she's trying very hard to be fair. Anc actually, she's given MORE information to the mom than to the Dad. If you read the OP, she said she found it very "natural" to let the mom know what was going on with the kids when the dad had them. From what I can surmise, she didn't actually give toomuch info to the dad yet, that's why she's asking for help here.

FWIW, I don't consider dirty, tired, etc to be judgements so much as observations. In fact, those very terms are in my nurse's notes! When we evaluate a patient for the first time we are to note whether they are clean, well groomed, disheveled, dirty, well rested, etc. I can imagine teachers do the same.

[doubledutch]

i can't see why sharing any info about the kids (not about the other parent) would be a problem. they have joint custody. i think the suggestion to have the dad occasionally see the kids at school (maybe in a classroom volunteer capacity?) is good, so he can make these observations himself.

in the case of words like "dirty" or "tired" i don't see them as judgmental, but you can describe exactly what you saw that supports those conclusions. as in, dirty hair or dirty clothes, circles under their eyes, yawning . . . whatever you saw that caused you to draw the conclusions. i mean, dirty is fairly obvious, but tired is more open to interpretation - was it behavior, attitude, or did they maybe even say they were tired?

i'm a mom who is often running late, and even if we leave the house clean, by the time we get somewhere, my kids may have gotten the knees of their pants dirty, or sometimes i notice after we're out of the house that they need breakfast wiped off their faces. (luckily, i still have wipes on me because i still have one in diapers!) my kids always have scratches, scrapes and bruises, occasionally given from one kid to the other but usually from having fun. i would be sad if i found out people were questioning my parenting because of those things, but maybe they would be right to - i don't know.

i agree that the dad has a right to know how his kids are doing, but try to keep it about the kids and not about their mom; like how they're doing in school (not just academically but socially) and their latest accomplishments. i'm sure it's a huge adjustment and hopefully everyone will get into a good routine soon. i wonder if the dad has phone calls with the kids?

[meemee]

Originally Posted by Latte Mama

But I think she's trying very hard to be fair. Anc actually, she's given MORE information to the mom than to the Dad. If you read the OP, she said she found it very "natural" to let the mom know what was going on with the kids when the dad had them. From what I can surmise, she didn't actually give toomuch info to the dad yet, that's why she's asking for help here.
ah true i agree. i didnt note that part. i think info should be given equally to both parents.
FWIW, I don't consider dirty, tired, etc to be judgements so much as observations. In fact, those very terms are in my nurse's notes! When we evaluate a patient for the first time we are to note whether they are clean, well groomed, disheveled, dirty, well rested, etc. I can imagine teachers do the same.

wow really. i find dirty and tired to be totally judgement terms.

so dirty is judgement because my definition of dirty could be much different
than yours. as a nurse you obviously have a definition of dirty - so that when you assess a person and find certain conditions you can write dirty. which means anyone reading your notes knows that you made that statement based on certain facts. whether these definitions are written down or not it doesnt matter i would imagine as long as you agree up on them. it behooves you not to write all the observations because of time issues.

but what is dirty? wore crumpled clothes? hair not combed? dirty face? what exactly did she mean? they smelled? what? tired same thing. what are the signs of tired.

am i going overboard? perhaps i am? but i feel every daycare should have the same policy for every parent. isnt that being professional? its one thing to tell the dad about accomplishments. its quite another thing to tell him his kids are coming dirty to school. if anything the mom should be made aware of this if after a month the same thing keeps happening.

ooooooh i loooooooove the idea of a volunteer capacity. that would take care of most of the issue right there.

on the whole though this observation makes me feel really sad. it just shows the effects of 6 months visitation. does the other parent not see his children completely that whole 6 month?

i would like to know when my dd is sick. even though we do every alternate day my ex still doesnt tell me when dd is sick. i always call him and tell him when she is, but he never does the same for me. i would like to know and the only way i know is half an hour before pickup time since i pick her up from school he will call me and tell me she isnt in school.

however i would assume that if dd was seriously sick he would let me know. but little things i dont think he considers worth it to call me and tell me.

[aleatha5]

Forum crashing. Dad would have every right to have information about his kids. Regardless of who has physical custody, they would have joint legal custody. Unless you have documentation otherwise, I would think that your facility could be in more trouble for not giving dad information (because of joint legal custody it would be his right to have that information).

Obviously, like PP have stated you can't talk about mom, but if he asks about how his kids are doing, yes, absolutely he has every right to know.

[ABrandNewName]

Thanks everyone,

A few more thoughts that maybe would help clarify the situation.

The kids spend 6 months with one and then 6 months with the other. When they're with dad they see mom periodically because she stops in and spends a few minutes with them when she picks up her sister. They also have an every other weekend visit with whichever parent doesn't have them. It doesn't seem like an ideal arrangement to me, but it's what they worked out and the court agreed to. Both parents have joint legal and physical custody throughout the year.

Although I didn't teach this little girl long before the switch (they actually switched the first week of school), I've known her for a while because I had her older sibling in my class, and have continued to keep in contact with mom. Given that I do know that what I'm seeing is not simply transition stress. Many of the issues we see with her are issues that exist with all 3 kids.

As far as me "mentioning CPS". I mentioned CPS because I wanted to head off comments telling me to call them. This isn't a CPS case. Mom is a less attentive parent that many other parents, but she isn't abusive or neglectful according to legal definitions. At the same time, it's hard to see the kids falling asleep at school (long before nap time) when a few months ago they were "bright eyed and bushy tailed" as preschool teachers like to say.

A number of people have suggested that it's not my job to talk to parents. I should clarify that this is a public school, Preschool through 5th grade, with lots of classrooms at each level. My principal doesn't have either the time or the desire to facilitate every conversation between parents and teachers, nor does he think he needs to -- he trusts us to make that judgement, especially me since I've been there over 10 years and have a leadership role in the school. It's also common place in my school for teachers to give out their cell phones. I share mine openly and both parents in this case have called me at various times. It's certainly not against the rules, and an easy way for me to keep in touch wtih parents who work long hours.

I didn't tell Dad that his kids were dirty or tired. When he called I told him that the little girl had only been out one day, and that her brother had been there that day, and that she seemed healthy when she came back. He asked if they were "OK" and I said that she seemed to want more attention than usual, but that my experience told me that children undergoing transitions usually do so. That's all I said, my question here was whether I could/should say more.

[Avani]

I don't think there is any protocal for this exact situation. It would really need to be on a case by case basis. Right now i am dealing with my kids school and their dad trying to pry for information. I have sole legal and physical custody with a restraining order. The dad has never once been to the school or asked about the school or the kids education for four full years. But all the sudden a few months back he showed up. My daughter's teacher let him in and showed him some of her work. Even though i had a restraining order on file that states he is not allowed near the school she had forgotten about it. This situation found her in and out of court hearings since my ex then pulled her into our custody case. She missed several days of work as my ex had her subopened. Last week my ex showed back up at the school requesting my children's school records. Thankfully the principal pulled out our restraining order and court order that specifically states that if any school information is given to him that it has to come from me directly. She then told him she would call the police. My ex also emailed the the kids teachers requesting visits with them. Per court order he can not. I would very clearly request all court documentation and have the principal make the decision. If you have issues with the children's attendence, appearance, bruises etc i would contact CPS since they are trained professionals. Otherwise you could find yourself in the middle of a custody battle.

[MeepyCat]

It sounds like, in this situation, the dad has every right to information about his kids. I would only suggest that you make sure to share any concerns you have with both parents. Like the thing with the kids falling asleep in class - have you called the mom about that?

[PoppyMama]

Yep to what Meepycat said.