Private playdates ?

[PGTlatte]

It is inappropriate to want to keep a playdate private when you have invited friends you don't see very often to come over and play ? Meaning, the neighborhood kids are not invited in ? Our DS1 has a tendency to ignore our invited guests if neighbor kids are also around, so when I invite people to our house to play, I want it to be just our kids and the invited guests. Then DS1 will focus on the kids who were invited to play, which is the manners I want to teach him. It makes the playtime work better too, to have fewer kids. We have a 6 ft privacy fence in our back yard, and I feel that if we don't play out front, but only inside and in the back yard, it's not unreasonable to say "DS1 has guests right now - he will play with you later." When our neighbors have company, we make sure our kids don't bother them or try to get their kids' attention away from their guests. IMO it's basic manners and healthy boundaries. Am I to think this way ?

[Kuba'sMama]

I personally don't see anything wrong with that. First of all, it's your choice who you invite into your home. Second of all, you're right, kids have a hard time focusing on too many guests, especially if there are more familiar kids around (your guests might feel left out). My kids are roughly the age of yours and I always keep in mind who I invite and what the dynamic might be (who plays well together, who is more shy, who likes a group setting, who prefers a one on one playdate, etc). I don't think there's anything weird about that.

[4evermom]

Of course that's appropriate! Why are you second guessing yourself???

[PGTlatte]

Well, there is a story behind my question, and it's been a very rough 48 hours. I have had two men angry with me...one who lives here...it's been rough. I started to think maybe I was the one with abnormal expectations.

During a playdate I had set up with friends we don't see very often, and a very sensitive guest child who needs 1:1 playdates....I had a situation with a neighbor child, who is almost 8 years old...after being politely told at the front door that DS1 "has company right now but will play with you out front later"....refused to give up...instead attempted to climb the fence into our yard...and when stopped from doing that, sat outside our gate, sticking his hands through the slats and yelling to DS1 and engaging him in a game through the fence while his invited guest was ignored and would not leave for quite a while.

I corrected the immediate situation with my own child and got him away from the fence. It still created a real problem in the playdate because then my son was no longer happy with the playdate situation. The child I invited over specifically needs 1:1 playdates, and the neighbor child is specifically not a good playdate-joiner (I have tried to include him in the past by moving it out front - BIG disaster ending with guest children ignored and treated rudely by the neighbor child and upset), so I never felt that including him was an option, which is specifically why we stayed in the back behind the 6 foot wooden fence. I also do not want to give in to a kid who blatantly disregards what I have said to him at my own house, or give my child the expectation that he can blow off his invited guests any time this other child shows up. I am making full use of this as a teaching opportunity regarding manners for my own child.

I did report the neighbor child's behavior to his parents the next day, as I feel it's a boundary violation for him to stay on our property and persist in trying to play with a child he's been told by a parent is not available due to having company, and disturb us when we have company after he's been told "no" three times. Frankly he is also a bit of a persistant nuisance at our house, (and it's been going on for four years so my tolerance is very low) and I feel a real need to set some boundaries, esp with summer coming. I reported just the facts of what happened without preaching (J was told DS1 had company and could not play; J then tried to climb our fence; J then sat outside our fence attempting to distract DS1 from his guest).

His parent did not take it well. I suppose people have different ideas of what is polite. This seems extreme though. If my child was loose in the neighborhood (which we do not allow) and disturbed someone else like this at their house while they had company, I would feel awful about it...not blame the other parent. I would also never consider it rude for someone else to have a private playdate in their own fenced back yard and not welcome in any neighbor kid who shows up.

Anyway - I feel bad about the whole thing and like I don't want to invite anyone here for playdates anymore.

[4evermom]

Well that's just crazy.

I guess if that kid's parent has issues with it, it's clear where the kid gets the idea he has rights to your property. Maybe you can plan an indoor playdate next time... Not that you should have to.

[Peony]

You were totally in the right.

[Tjej]

You're right to do it. I know that it might hurt the parents to hear it - and they might just get defensive because they are hurt.

I think that if a child did that to me, I would consider very closely if I knew the parents well enough to explain it to them (and probably not talk to the family about it), and I'd just move a playdate indoors if the child did not respect the boundaries. My experience with kids is generally that if I "mean business" 2-3 times consistently they get it and give up.

But you did not do anything wrong, in my eyes, in the stuff you detailed.

Tjej

[journeymom]

Holy cow, you poor thing!

So the neighbor dad was mad at you because you informed him that his son was behaving like a serious pest? He wasn't embarrassed and apologizing?? No wonder you were questioning yourself. That's crazy making.

[greenmansions]

You are completely in the right. The other family is out of line.

FWIW, we have a similar situation in our neighborhood with my lovely neighbor across the street and the family next door to her. They have four kids with no supervision, and they come over to her yard and try to play with their toys even if they just have other adult guests over. Never mind when there are more kids over. I am so thankful that we are across the street!

My neighbor also dreads the arrival of summer and is struggling with what to do about it. The other parents have a "kids will be kids" kind of attitude and will not teach theirs good manners/boundaries about these things.

So I am going to follow this thread to see if you get any suggestions about what to do about it. So far, my neighbor just tells the other kids they have to go home and gives them a time that they can come back. Usually that works.

Good luck. Not a fun situation.

[redpajama]

I think you are absolutely right in your expectations and in the way you handled this.

[PGTlatte]

Thank you all for your support. I really do appreciate it. I needed a reality check regarding my old-fashioned ideas about boundaries and respect. I am glad to find out that others still have these expectations as well. I no longer feel so ridiculous even though two people reacted to this as if I was from a different planet.

We do know these parents well. In the future I will not call these parents because it upsets my DH very much since they are so hostile about it. However, normally, except in cases of physical or verbal aggression, I would not feel free to speak very sternly to someone else's kid - I would inform the other parents and leave it to them. That will no longer be the case with this child.

BTW, I should probably add, this child lives around the corner and down the street. Only the front corners of our houses are visible to each other, and our back yards face different streets in different directions....so there is no issue of our fun being right outside J's window or anything. He has to walk down the street to see what's going on at our house.

The kids who live next door on either side of us are actually very respectful when I say DS1 is not available to play, and likewise we tell our kids to leave them alone when they have company, unless the parents specifically invite them to join in. Also, when the neighbors on one side of us invite the neighbors on the other side to come over and swim, and not us, and this is in full view of our back yard and our kitchen, and our own kids feel bad and left out for not being invited, we tell them that "sometimes you are not invited - I'm sorry you are sad but it is their pool" and we leave in the car to go do something else. We live with these boundaries even when it is a very hard lesson for us and our kids. So I am not expecting something that I do not understand. Every summer we face the challenge of helping our own children understand that they are not always invited and that we respect our neighbors' boundaries and privacy. Sometimes it's hard, and sometimes it feels hurtful. But it's their house and it's our deal to get over. That's life - and we still would not want our kids to have the idea that they should always be included just because we live where we do.

[mamazee]

I have the most extroverted child in the word. (Well, I haven't done a study, but she's got to be in the top 10 or so.) If she sees neighbor kids out she is wanting to play.

If the neighbors have guests over, she's frequently told, "Not now, we have guests." To the point where if she sees someone has guests, she often has me call to ask, or she'll go up to them and ask if she can play or if they're just playing with the guests right now. Sometimes they love having her join in, but sometimes they're just playing with guests, and that's perfectly acceptable.

[squimp]

You are totally reasonable and we do the same thing during playdates. I am really surprised that an 8-year-old will not listen! We had a few boundary issues with older kids in our neighborhood. My experience was that they were a little bit lonely. I would have no problem walking the kid home and watching him go inside if he does it again. It's always weird though when the parents are odd!

[LynnS6]

Originally Posted by laundrycrisis

.I had a situation with a neighbor child, who is almost 8 years old...after being politely told at the front door that DS1 "has company right now but will play with you out front later"....refused to give up...instead attempted to climb the fence into our yard...and when stopped from doing that, sat outside our gate, sticking his hands through the slats and yelling to DS1 and engaging him in a game through the fence while his invited guest was ignored and would not leave for quite a while.

I corrected the immediate situation with my own child and got him away from the fence.

I would have immediately gone out, taken the offending child by the hand and marched him home. I would explain to the child on the way that his behavior was rude, and that it was ds' job to be a good host to his guest. I would then have explained to the parents that their child needs to stay away because we have a guest over.

I would also have told him that he was not welcome back until the next day because of his behavior.

Each and every time this child comes over when he's not wanted, march him home. Watch him from the door and if he doesn't go home, walk with him.

[Stayathomemommy]

I would think the question would be whether or not you will allow this neighbor kid to EVER come and interact with your child again. we have had some problems with kids around our house and my children know that they cant play with them because they are bad influences. if he is rude to people, disrespectful to parents i wouldnt want any of that rubbing off on my child.

I would have more private playdates till the neighbor kids gets the idea!!!

[nola79]

You are definitely in the right. I would be appalled if my child behaved the way the neighbor child behaved. I would in no way blame the other parents!

[PGTlatte]

Thank you all.

I can't really send him home, because his parents allow him to roam the neighborhood...but I can tell him "you can't stay here".

This child's speech and behavior have been a troublesome influence on our son for a long time now, and his parents also have a disregard for other families' time and space. It does not seem to occur to them that nobody, who is not paid for it, wants to have your child at their house every day, or to regularly expect to stay for a major part of the day unless they were invited to do so.

When the boys were very young, the mom basically told me that her best "solution" to keep her kids entertained is to "call a friend" for her kids. But, over the years I have observed that they burn friends out. The dad of one family that lived very close to them got extremely upset, walked to their house and yelled at them, and then there was a for sale sign in their yard the next day....and they bought a house less than five miles from here. Hmmm.

Over the years I have had my own problems with too-frequent, too-insistent "requests" for playdates that are always immediate, never planned in advance, not taking "no" well for an answer, that feel much more like demands. Now that the child is older, the parents do not call or show up asking anymore, they just send him out the door. Our time and peace in our home has been disrupted many times, because when this child shows up, our son wants to play with him, and the flow of whatever activity my kids were doing together or with me is trashed. There have also been demands that our son play at their house, and promises for the level of supervision, that were not met, so he is not allowed to play there anymore.

I do not feel I can cut this off completely because our son really likes this child, they live very close to us, and we have to walk past their house to get to our neighborhood park and drive past their house to get in and out of our neighborhood. I do want to keep things civil, and honor our son's desire to have this friend. I don't mind them playing together when our kids were already playing out front. But I do feel the need to put some boundaries around his contact with us. He can not have an open invitation to be here whenever he feels like it, for as long as he wants. Especially with summer coming, and us homeschooling through the summer, his expectations can be very intrusive.

My DH was really upset with me for informing his parents of this latest event, because he does not want an uncivil situation to develop with them, which I can understand. It would be unpleasant and awkward. Although, from my perspective, it's already pretty bad and has been for a while. But in the four years I have been dealing with issues with this family, I have only verbally addressed things with the parents three times, and have kept things civil and friendly. I do not think that three times in four years of difficulty is too much. I save the conversations for the worst of the problems. I am civil, but also assertive. My intention is to leave no room for doubt that I am not okay with what happened. This time the dad yelled at me and hung up on me. This is why I've decided to be much more stern with their kid. I will now feel free to say things to him I would normally pass on to the parents to deal with.

Also, and this may seem odd, but I have some sympathy for the child. It's not his fault that his parents have neglected to teach him a sense of respect for others' time and space. He can be funny and creative. They do have fun together. I like all those things. I just want some limits and respect for boundaries, KWIM ?

[annethcz]

I think you were absolutely right, and you don't have an old-fashioned sense of boundaries. I agree with you that I have compassion for a child who wasn't taught the importance of being a good guest in someone else's home.

Is it bad of me to hope that since the child's father was so upset at you (he YELLED at you???), perhaps the child won't be allowed to come to your house anymore?

[journeymom]

Originally Posted by laundrycrisis

Also, and this may seem odd, but I have some sympathy for the child. It's not his fault that his parents have neglected to teach him a sense of respect for others' time and space. He can be funny and creative. They do have fun together. I like all those things. I just want some limits and respect for boundaries, KWIM ?

That's not odd at all.

[PGTlatte]

Thank you.

When all the kids (ours and various neighbors) are all playing out front in our cul-de-sac, I won't want to exclude anyone, and really don't think I have the right to....but I don't think it's a bad idea at all for me to limit their contact to being out front or him joining us at the park (across from his house) when we go there. I really don't want to invite this child into our house if he will not respect me, and his parents apparently don't either.

Originally Posted by annethcz

I think you were absolutely right, and you don't have an old-fashioned sense of boundaries. I agree with you that I have compassion for a child who wasn't taught the importance of being a good guest in someone else's home.

Is it bad of me to hope that since the child's father was so upset at you (he YELLED at you???), perhaps the child won't be allowed to come to your house anymore?