Starting kindergarten later rather than earlier - Page 2

[Encinalien]

Originally Posted by Pepe

. One personal disadvantage for us is figuring out how we will afford another year of pre-school....

He is easily frustrated and has perfectionist tendencies which immobilize him. He's stubborn. He's sensitive. (By the way, those last three sentences could also describe me if we simply change the pronoun.)

I have an opinion on these two things. Paying for a preschool you don't feel you can afford. Um, is there something great this preschool offers that would enrich his life, other than babysitting him until he goes to school next year. Like is it nature-based and got field trips or is that where he's learning the second language? The second language that was a big quiestion, is that something you're doing or is that something that kindergarten will interupt? Or is it just paying extra money for an extra year of childhood?

Thoughts on the endless worksheets and perfectionism: I think handwriting is actually just busywork and repetition and the more you practice, the sooner you get it done, the sooner you can get on with life. Everybody has their own opinions but I think most people don't like handwriting at first and won't like it until they've done it long enough to not think about it anymore. (except unschoolers) Everybody prefers to do things they're already good at. Unless you're going with an unschool or self-paced cirriculum and if you plan to send him to the same school just a year later I don't know that he would like the pile of handwriting homework any better next year.

The main thing for me from your post is that you're straining the budget for the extra year of preschool. I'd rather strain the budget for a family vacation with that money , but you're thinking of holding him back for a year for a reason. Perfectionism isn't immaturity he'll outgrow in a year. With the age difference I think kids treat younger kids a little better even.

[bugginsmom]

Originally Posted by Linda on the move

We've moved around a lot and K is very different in different places, and the differences tend to line up with the age requirements. Places where kids are younger tend to have more play based K, while places where the kids are older tend to be more read/write/to math on pape

Well, I come from a state with a December cut off date and I can't think of one district around with a play based approach. Not saying it isn't so in other places, but we haven't found that to be true here. I live in one of those districts that actively encourages you to send your fall birthdays to developmental kindergarten for a year, then traditional kindergarten. So many places have DK, Early 5's, Junior/Senior Kindergarten now which is just "redshirting" in an institution so I don't see the difference anyway. Such is life.

[aslyn]

We held my DD back from K on the reccomendation of the kindergarten round-up thing they do here..We waited a year and tried our hands at homeschooling..for our DD this didn't work out so well, When we finaly broke down and put her in public school she is waaay behind other kids her age. She is being tested for everything under the sun..while there are a few guesses as to whats going on with her we wont know anything until the evaluations are complete. For my DS we started him on the homeschool K cirriculum late because we thought the "extra year" would be good for him to pick up on things and emotionaly mature. He is now in public school and WAY ahead of his classmates. He reads at a middle of 2nd grade level, his math is at a middle of 1st grade level. He is also the oldest kid in his class, and while the material bores him for the most part he does enjoy the social aspect.

For both of my kids "redshirting" them has had its pros and cons. We got a chance to really bond with our kids during the 2 yrs we homeschooled DD but at great expense to her because she has needs that we never knew about and is struggling. On the other hand it was great for DS because he HAS matured significantly, and can help out the other kids that may be struggling with topics he's already mastered, and it gives him a chance to really get his social skills in tact before entering the world of 1st grade and greater expectations.

If your child is already academicly/emotionaly advanced I would say there is no reason to hold them back. It would probably frustrate the kid because of sheer boredom and being "beyond" that. But I really think it depends on the child. I don't think at this point with my 3rd child I will hold him back but I have a whole 'nother year to worry about that!

[Pepe]

Thanks, everyone, for all the thoughts and comments. It's interesting to read about others' experiences.

The remarks about being older and "ahead" possibly leading to boredom and/or misbehavior are worth thinking about. It was also useful for me to be reminded that he interacts differently, and often more cooperatively, with other adults--this is apparent at soccer and at pre-school. I mean, he's a wonderful kid, but with these other adults, in interaction unaffected by the parent-child relationship, he's a little different. Of course!

We're hopeful that he'll get lucky in the language immersion lottery, so to those who inquired, yes, the extra year at pre-school would potentially provide more second language experience and another shot at a spot in language immersion next year (if he doesn't get in this year and we opted to go for kinder for 2011 instead of 2010). It might sound strange to any of you not familiar with the dual immersion curriculum and methodology, but I believe the language immersion program would be a better fit for him academically. If that doesn't work, he'd go to the neighborhood kindergarten, which I find less innovative and a little more worksheet-ish and seatwork-oriented--hence my original thoughts about whether he is ready and whether he would thrive in that sort of "standard" classroom.

Anyone else want to comment on why NOT to wait to enroll a kiddo--who happens to be a boy--in kindergarten? Thanks!

PS With all due respect to those of you who homeschool, that is not in our plans. However, feel free to keep that info in the discussion if that broadens the appeal/usefulness of this thread!

[Azik's mom]

Ive been wondering about the same thing too. The thing though is that my DS's birthday is Sept 30, so we dont have much of a choice. He is still young (2.5) but I hate to think that I might have to end up holding him back a year because of 29 days. He is every social and eager to be with other kids.

That said I met a couple recently and we were discussing this issue and they told me that they held their son back a year. They said that he was the youngest in his class and just was not doing so well. I have also spoken to pre-school teachers who tell me that younger kids especially boys seem to have a harder time so when they are older they do much better. I dont know if the research supports this or not but that seems to be the generally held view.

I think that the main thing is to ensure that he is being engaged intellectually, socially and emotionally so that he remains interested in learning.

[eepster]

Originally Posted by Pepe

We're hopeful that he'll get lucky in the language immersion lottery, so to those who inquired, yes, the extra year at pre-school would potentially provide more second language experience and another shot at a spot in language immersion next year (if he doesn't get in this year and we opted to go for kinder for 2011 instead of 2010). It might sound strange to any of you not familiar with the dual immersion curriculum and methodology, but I believe the language immersion program would be a better fit for him academically. If that doesn't work, he'd go to the neighborhood kindergarten, which I find less innovative and a little more worksheet-ish and seatwork-oriented--hence my original thoughts about whether he is ready and whether he would thrive in that sort of "standard" classroom.

This really is a somewhat different issue. If you look at it as, making a choice between 2 not quite ideal things. A choice between the disadvantage of a less than ideal school vs the disadvantage of losing a year of schooling.

My first question would be in: Is the immersion school really worth it? For a bright kid immersion can seem like a way to up the academic challenge, but often in a couple of years the child is fluent in the target language and there is no longer any inherent challenge from it being an immersion school. If the school lacks a gifted program and isn't generally more challenging than the regular school, or doesn't do as much academic level small grouping within the class, the school will not be a good fit long term. If the school isn't going to be a really good long term fit when compared to the public school it probably isn't worth loosing a year over.

Another issue is that holding him out of K with hopes of a second shot at the lottery is a gamble. How are you going to feel if his looses the lottery the next time around as well. Then he's going to be going to the public school and will have lost a year waiting for second shot at the immersion school.

There is another thread on this subject.

Of course this all may be moot. He may win a slot this year.

[Hanbonem]

I haven't read all the posts but wanted to respond. My DS turned 5 on his first day of school (August 11th bday with Sept 1st cutoff) and I started my own "should I hold him back" thread that ended up in a million pages of responses.

He is due to finish his first year in a couple of weeks and here are my thoughts on having started him on time -both pro and con.

#1 He has learned SO MUCH this year that he would not have learned in another year of preschool. I could have had no real idea before starting him how he would have done academically, but he's been like a sponge.
#2 He has friends but is a little socially awkward with older kids. I don't see this as a lasting problem, he's just had to learn how to get along with the crowd.
#3 It took 2/3rd of the year for him to catch on to how to exibit "proper behavior" in class. They have behavior charts where you're green, yellow, blue or red in decending order of how many times the teacher has had to address undesirable behavior. First half of the year we had a lot of yellow and blue but now he's mostly on green having figured out that all he has to do is not pull pranks and do his work. I see that as a maturity problem that the six year olds did not likely have.
#4 He is a little behind on coloring in the lines and similar kindergarten issues but he's progressed steadily and as I compare his work to others in his class certainly some are neater and some are not.

Not sure what points I'm making with the above but basically we were worried, agonized over it, did not relish paying for another year of preschool. and finally decided that if necessary we'd hold him back before 1st. He's shown in some ways that he's younger than the majority but more than anything else I think that it was time for the mental challenge and he's done just fine.

[domesticidyll]

DS is in the type of school you describe: very heavy on seatwork, worksheets, lots of formulaic writing.

The kids who are academically ahead of the curriculum seem like they are the ones thriving. They are the ones who stay on green most days, who sit and work quietly and do their work well. They can easily write several sentences, can fill out all the worksheets, etc. They make the teacher's job easy.

But... these kids are just not getting very much beyond the social stuff. Most days, DS goes the whole day without learning anything beyond some handwriting practice and maybe hearing a book he likes read to him. He is dreamy and quiet, and it's not visible to his teacher how much he is tuning out of learning, but he's just not engaged.

Whereas the kids in the middle, who weren't reading at the start of the year, or maybe were just sounding out CVC words, they have a harder time focusing on the worksheets, and don't do as well discipline-wise, but to me they seem to be a better fit in the classroom, because they are really learning. I'm not saying they love the teaching style and all the freaking worksheets, but these are the kids that their parents can look at them at the end of the year and say, "I can't believe how much they learned!"

I guess I'm saying I see it as a disadvantage to be significantly ahead, not for the teacher, but for the student long-term, particularly for K-3 years where the focus is on learning reading and math facts.


Heather

[noobmom]

Originally Posted by domesticidyll

DS is in the type of school you describe: very heavy on seatwork, worksheets, lots of formulaic writing.

The kids who are academically ahead of the curriculum seem like they are the ones thriving. They are the ones who stay on green most days, who sit and work quietly and do their work well. They can easily write several sentences, can fill out all the worksheets, etc. They make the teacher's job easy.

But... these kids are just not getting very much beyond the social stuff. Most days, DS goes the whole day without learning anything beyond some handwriting practice and maybe hearing a book he likes read to him. He is dreamy and quiet, and it's not visible to his teacher how much he is tuning out of learning, but he's just not engaged.

Whereas the kids in the middle, who weren't reading at the start of the year, or maybe were just sounding out CVC words, they have a harder time focusing on the worksheets, and don't do as well discipline-wise, but to me they seem to be a better fit in the classroom, because they are really learning. I'm not saying they love the teaching style and all the freaking worksheets, but these are the kids that their parents can look at them at the end of the year and say, "I can't believe how much they learned!"

I guess I'm saying I see it as a disadvantage to be significantly ahead, not for the teacher, but for the student long-term, particularly for K-3 years where the focus is on learning reading and math facts.


Heather

Your description depresses me, but I'm sure it's very accurate. I feel sorry for the advanced kids who are basically wasting their days.