Breastfeeding in Public - Page 2

[annekh23]

My feeling is that if it's ok for a baby to be there, it's ok for them to get breastfed, I don't know enough about the kind of event you are talking about to make a judgement on that and whether bringing the baby was a good decision or not, but assuming it was then I don't think you are overeacting at all.

I'm not entirely comfortable with the idea that you were representing your place of employment, I'd call it supporting, like teachers might go along to fundraising events out of school hours because they support the school. I've certainly seen teachers who've drunk a bit more than they should in a place clearly associated with the school and at that kind of event where it's ok to bring family, I'd expect them to behave as a parent and wife as well as maintain an appropriate relationship with the students, which means different things with different ages - but you were with adult colleagues.

As for not asking about where to pump, that is utterly ridiculous, if you knew there was a place to go, you have to ask where it is somehow, are we only supposed to approach women if we need something related to breasts?

[goldingoddess]

Originally Posted by Babyruth348

I recently attended an event that I was invited too with my daughter with co-workers and an agency involved with the work that I do. It was an awards ceremony to honor volunteers who work with my department. I was not getting paid to attend, and I brought my daughter as I didn't want to have to express milk for her. I was sitting at a table with others where we had eaten and my DD got hungry so I BF her at the table. I was wearing a nursing top and did it discreetly so my breast was not exposed.

This says it all right here, you and your DD were invited to an event that you were not being paid to attend. Therefore you were not at work. And according to the laws in WA what your boss told you is illegal for him to have any say in when you are under those conditions above.

I would talk to a lawyer. Really if you are up for the fight I would. Because your boss is way out of line and beyond that he humiliated you, when he is the one in the wrong.

Keep us updated on what you decide to do.

[hakeber]

Originally Posted by Jaesun's Dad

Am I the only one thinking I'd like to avoid this hospital you work at? I hope things work out for you. I think you have many rights which have been disregarded by your management. At the very least this should have been handled with more sensitivity and understanding.

Nope! Count me in.

Originally Posted by annekh23

As for not asking about where to pump, that is utterly ridiculous, if you knew there was a place to go, you have to ask where it is somehow, are we only supposed to approach women if we need something related to breasts?

That's the gist of it, and we must never let them know we fart, or let them see what can come out of our vaginas, too. The idea that boobies are not just for their ogling and squeezing pleasure is just too hard a truth for them to bear. The OP broke the code and for that she must be punished.

Get your spears and pitchforks, I'll light the torches!

On a serious note, OP...no. You are not over reacting. If anything you are under reacting. I do not know what department of the hospital you work in but I am assuming it is not pediatrics or obstetrics, eh? Your co-workers and your boss need to take a step back and wise up and you absolutely MUST put in a formal complaint with your HR head. The co-worker and boss do not need to be informed, but HR does. They need a record of this so that when it happens again to you or another hapless co-worker there will be a history in place and the offending parties can be more easily fired/forced into sensitivity training.

If people have a problem with you BFing in front of them or even implying that your boobs might have another function beyond bringing sexy back, they need to A) say it to your face and B) get over it.

There are plenty of things I have to see that offend my sensibilities, like men with their shirts unbuttoned to expose chest hair, spandex and lycra abuse, those open toe ankle boots and pointy toed elf shoes, giant shoulder pads making a come back, animals in cute clothing, and yet I have to just shut up and deal because none of that is illegal. You see people paying 12 dollars for a hamburger with a side of T&A at Hooters, and yet somehow you made them too uncomfortable to speak by breastfeeding a baby at an awards dinner for volunteers? That's nuts.

[jessjgh1]

Oh, that's very frustrating.
I recently helped a local mom who had been asked to cover up while nursing at a local business and the situation was resolved. At first when she tried to explain she was within her right the businesswoman was taken aback, but after later presenting her with the information that outlined some of the reasons (ie- breastfeeding is the norm and healthy and it is unreasonable to expect mothers to leave/cover up/pump, etc.) she understood better. If it was your situation I would provide information on breastfeeding and working- how it makes sense for businesses to support breastfeeding because the children are healthier and the parent needs less sick time to care for a sick child, for example.
The information she put together also presents how to respond to the situation. I know that's not totally relevant in this case, because it was a workplace issue, but I think employees are in need of example to know how to handle this, because, unfortunately there aer people that are uncomfortable. The important point is to teach employers (and workplaces) that their duty is to resolve the situation with the 'offended' person and NOT involve the breastfeeding mother (blame her or make her change). For example, the appropriate response at a restaurant would be to tell the offended person that breastfeeding is allowed but to offer to reseat them.
ALso, she reported the incident to First Right and our state breastfeeding coalitioin. I put together some information for her and the state law that protects breastfeeding and she was sent material from First Right that she said was very helpful. Again, she put together a packet and gave it to the businesswoman.
As I mentioned, initially the businesswoman was surprised to receive the packet. But she did read it and later thanked her, apologized, and has put up a breastfeeding sign, retrained her employees, and is totally on board.


If you are willing you could try doing something to hr-- after all as a health providing agency ALL employees should be comfortable with breastfeeding- afterall it might be a patient that needs them to handle their situation comfotably next time.
BTW, here's the law in Kansas:
Kansas

Kan. Stat. Ann. § 43-158 and § 65-1,248 provide that it is the public policy of Kansas that a mother's choice to breastfeed should be supported and encouraged to the greatest extent possible and that a mother may breastfeed in any place she has a right to be. The law was amended in 2006 to excuse nursing mothers from jury duty (2006 HB 2284). http://www.ncsl.org/IssuesResearch/H...Default.aspx#k

So maybe, just the information on the legislation would be enough.

Good luck!
Jessica

This is what I sent to help the mother in our area:

Thanks so much for contacting me today, I hope this can be of use to you. I put together a few of the resources I mentioned and I’m also sending an email to my LLL leaders to see if they suggest anything else. Let me know if I can help at all.
Thanks so much for taking the time to report this incident and help prevent this from happening to another mother and child.
Jessica


http://www.firstright.org/
Report Breastfeeding Discrimination
FAQ: http://www.firstright.org/lactivism_q_a

http://massbfc.org/business.html
Information on Breastfeeding Friendly award and also a short report for negative experience

International Breastfeeding Symbol
http://mothering.com/breastfeeding-a...-and-resources
Lots of resources for promoting breastfeeding with businesses….
The Business Case for Business http://www.health.ri.gov/family/brea...odbusiness.php (Rhode Island)

MA State Law protecting breastfeeding in public-

local resources
LLL contact info


This was the sample letter from the bottom of the mothering.com International Breastfeeding Symbol website

(I attached a copy... I don't think I can replicate the whole thing here, though, a few snippets)


Dear Community Leader/Business Owner: [DATE]

Breastfeeding mothers have many reasons to be out in public. The fact that babies simply cannot wait to be fed means that we need prominent businesses and community leaders responsible for public spaces to be active in helping to create a breastfeeding culture.

There many simple things you can do to become a supportive leader.

4. Encourage, support, and protect breastfeeding for nursing employees as well as patrons by offering frequent breaks for pumping, a place to pump, and a hearty pat on the back for the incredible commitment it takes to be a working and pumping breastfeeding mother. (See attached information on why breastfeeding is better for business.)

[Babyruth348]

It's wonderful to have found so much support and advice! I know that I should do something regarding the situation. On one hand I don't want to make a big deal out of the situation, but on the other hand I feel like I should confront my co-worker. I work in a small office setting closely with 4 other people, three who breastfed their children at some point in their lives. The co-worker who I suspect is uncomfortable with breastfeeding has never had any children. I know that in KS I have the right to BF anywhere my baby and I are leagally allowed to be, but I guess I don't know how that relates to a "work event". I was invited, and informed by the inviting party I could bring my DD. My Dad was one of the volunteers at the event. I often wonder if I had gone to the event with just my Dad as his guest if there would have been an issue.

[crunchy_mommy]

Originally Posted by Babyruth348

I know that in KS I have the right to BF anywhere my baby and I are leagally allowed to be, but I guess I don't know how that relates to a "work event".

Well if you are legally allowed to be at work then you are legally allowed to BF there, or at a work function, etc. As far as 'work event', you weren't getting paid so I don't see how you were a representative of the company, but even if you were, you were still 'legally allowed to be there' & thus allowed to BF. I would rock the boat a bit if you think you can, especially since other women there BF/have BF/may BF again down the line.

[sarahdavida]

[QUOTE=Babyruth348;15295908]I know that in KS I have the right to BF anywhere my baby and I are leagally allowed to be

I was invited, and informed by the inviting party I could bring my DD.QUOTE]

Well, there´s the answer I think. You were openly permitted to bring your DD, so I believe that falls under the category of "anywhere my baby and I are legally allowed to be" - it certainly wasn´t "illegal" for you to be there.

Whatever you decide to do, your boss (and possibly coworker) definitely needs to be informed that it was his actions that were, in fact, bordering on illegal (by intending to prevent you from BFing at any future similar event) - that you were permitted, BY STATE LAW, to BF and that you (or anyone else) should never be harassed about it again.

[jessjgh1]

Well, since you actually work for a service industry focused on health and wellness, maybe you could change the way the boss is looking at this. Instead of making it about you, you could say you are concerned that the way you were treated could make a client (or a volunteer) uncomfortable and then educate them that breastfeeding is normal, natural and necessary and well, also protected. Does Kansas have a breastfeeding coalition or do you have a local LLL? Maybe they have some ideas that would help put this into a local context (our coalition has awards for workplaces and/or businesses).

It is really possible that the 'offended' person really just hasn't think about breastfeeding. That's why in the restaurant case I think it was very helpful to have the employees educated. Management (and employers) are going to need an answer to 'what do I do.' Once managment has the proper answer, I bet they can easily tackle it. At this point, they just can only see it as one dimensional and the easy answer is to ask you to move. They just need another 'answer'.

BTW, breastfeeding in public is NOT illegal ANYWHERE, it has just been necessary because of a few people to PROTECT our babies right to nurse and make discrimination against it illegal. I know that is technically a simplification of the situation... but I just would hate for someone in a State with no laws to think that they shouldn't nurse in public.

Jessica

[LROM]

Originally Posted by new2texas

I don't think you're over reacting but I see this as a real opportunity to educate those around and to possibly enact some change in your work place. Research what the specifics are to the law in your state and the policy in place at your company and go from there. You could make a real difference here and pave the way for others so they don't face the same discrimination. You're in the right so stand up, speak out, stay strong and don't quit!

This this this! And I think another important thing to consider is the tone you start off with in handling it. Most people here are assuming this has to turn into a "confrontation" with either your boss or coworker. It doesn't.

First off, you have every right to be offended and pissed about all this. Every right. AND... if you respond based on those feelings, it IS likely you'll rub everyone the wrong way no matter how right you are.

Think about what's most important to you... proving you're right, forgetting about the whole thing, or possibly changing the way people see this issue. If you're interested in using your position and experience to educate those around you and possibly improve this situation for yourself and future BF mamas there, put aside the anger you justifyably feel and think in terms of being an educator.

Another poster suggested asking your boss in email what the official policies are so you can be in compliance. I agree with this but I think you should kill it with kindness. Say something like "I really appreciated you letting me know that there are policies about BF as related to the workplace that I'm not aware of. Since BF is promoted as a best practice by [insert name of whatever health org is most respected at your hospital], it never occurred to me that even if I was covered up and discreet I couldn't do it at a work-related event or even ask about where to do it discreetly. So that I may be fully aware of the policies and print them out for reference, please tell me all the policies around BF in the workplace so I have them. Thanks!"

Yeah, I know you FAR from "appreciated" what your boss said, but this is where it's about what's most important to you. Being rightfully pissed will not get you any change in perspective. If nothing else, the above gives you a way to basically say to him "Put up or shut up". Either he's gotta go on record with some policy about it that - depending on how egregious it is - gives you an even better position to help them understand the errors of their ways... or he's gotta admit there's no policy and see where it goes from there. He may also ignore you, in which case I'd just ask him again in a couple weeks and remind him that you are trying to follow the rules.

As for your coworker, I'd be direct but nice to her too. Just say "So I was suprised that [boss] told me that these 2 situations were not to be done. Does my BF make you uncomfortable?" See what she says, then still being nice (as much as you can manage) ask her if she's aware it's best practice and what how she thinks you should have handled those 2 situations since your baby needs to get fed.

Maybe I'm asking too much in suggesting you do all this with a straight face and nice (sincerely nice) tone, but I'm telling you this approach has worked wonders for me in work situations where people were acting crazy, making up policies, and basically being rude. Even my superiors. And I've never been fired or even written up... yet... But I have had people tell me much later that they were glad whatver happened happened, because they learned something from it. And the main difference is, I wasn't being fake, I wasn't lying. I really did appreciate the opportunity to try to be a positive influence (even if I didn't appreciate whatever silliness made me have to take a stand in the first place). I mean it when I tell rude, difficult people that I appreciate what they said, although I don't fully explain what I mean by that. I just move on to whatever diplomatic-but-direct way I can then point out my justifications for acting as I did.

The positivity makes it a conversation and opens up the possibility that the other person can hear you. That's why I suggest this.

If you don't want to bother with all this, that is totally understandable. But to me, this is a great teaching moment and given how I feel about BF and its benefits, I'd want everyone (especially boss and cranky coworker at a HOSPITAL!!!) to - if nothing else - understand that it's best practice, probably not wise to be a health serving organization IMPEDING BFing, and that they should be clearer about what alternatives a BF mom has unless they're suggesting a baby not get fed when its hungry.

[emmalizz]

Originally Posted by HappyFox05

Holy cow - until now, I just thought Mrs. Pankhurst was a character in the "Sister Suffragette" song from the movie "Mary Poppins". Thanks for educating me (well, you & google)!

i totally did too!

[claddaghmom]

Originally Posted by Meredith&Alexander

As an HR person, I'd politely ask your boss (probably in an e-mail, for clarity and reference purposes) for a summary of what's premissable WRT nursing and your workplace. That way you can conform your behavior to the degree you see fit, and if they're out of compliance with the law in your state it's easier to confront it if it's in writing.

Originally Posted by goldingoddess

This says it all right here, you and your DD were invited to an event that you were not being paid to attend. Therefore you were not at work. And according to the laws in WA what your boss told you is illegal for him to have any say in when you are under those conditions above.

I would talk to a lawyer. Really if you are up for the fight I would. Because your boss is way out of line and beyond that he humiliated you, when he is the one in the wrong.

Keep us updated on what you decide to do.

Email the people and rehash what they said/did to you, then ask for clarification. Get it in writing. Get legal counsel.

[star*mora]

Originally Posted by Meredith&Alexander

As an HR person, I'd politely ask your boss (probably in an e-mail, for clarity and reference purposes) for a summary of what's premissable WRT nursing and your workplace. That way you can conform your behavior to the degree you see fit, and if they're out of compliance with the law in your state it's easier to confront it if it's in writing.

am upset for what you had to deal with regarding your boss and co-workers, mama. man, what's their beef with breastfeeding?