or Connect
Mothering › Mothering Forums › Mom › Parenting › Does this happen at your library? Would you be okay with it?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Does this happen at your library? Would you be okay with it? - Page 3

post #41 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by no5no5 View Post
Am I the only one on MDC who thinks that Marilyn Manson kicks ?

Seriously, it wouldn't bother me if my 4 year old happened to see a video like this. She probably wouldn't notice it, tbh. Nudity, dancing, whatever. Violence would bother me more, but I'm still all for free libraries.

Our library has computers that are just for kids, and I know they enforce that policy because I once had a very irritated librarian ask if I was under 18. There is internet access, but our library's strategy is apparently to make the internet so slow that watching videos is impossible. It takes me fifteen minutes just to search the online card catalog.
I can't say that I love Marilyn Manson, but I did see him in concert ages ago at the request of a friend when I was barely 14!!

I feel really young when reading this thread because when the OP said it was a Marilyn Manson video that got her so upset I almost laughed (sorry OP not at you just at the thought of one of his videos)....I don't find them offensive or inappropriate I suppose, just mildly ridiculous. My DD is still a baby but having been a nanny for years and years before DD was born, I ran into some situations about things that maybe might have been inappropriate... I think the OP should have moved herself and her children or left. The computers are where they are regardless of the section.

I figure DD will be exposed to a lot and my job is more to help her understand it than try to stop every little thing coming her way. Then again it takes a lot to offend me. Violence is just about the only thing that will make me angry, sexuality is absolutely normal even in it's more bizarre forms and pretending like it isn't there isn't doing my DD any favors.
post #42 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by no5no5 View Post
Am I the only one on MDC who thinks that Marilyn Manson kicks ?
post #43 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by velochic View Post
I don't call myself a librarian because I don't have an MLIS, but I've worked in one for quite a while. I'm wondering what your proposal would be to keep public computers completely private. That is, how could a library achieve that? How could you guarantee that children will not be exposed to an adults internet browsing? Once the filters are in place according to CIPA, then there really isn't much more a library can do, unless they put each computer in a room by itself... with locked doors.
I AM a librarian (MLIS in 3 weeks), and that could be done with a privacy screen . With a privacy screen, you have to be directly in front of the computer in order to see what's on it. Instead of censoring (which has many, many problems, especially with the ALA *American Library Association*).

Filters often catch too much, especially when homework and/or school work must be researched.

Sometime to keep in mind is that there are library policies that are against pornography (nipples and/or genitals), but things like what the OP saw would NOT be a problem. A bathing suit would be all right. A person with a sheet covering their butt, lying face down, topless, turning around to look at the photographer would be acceptable, since, although the person is nude, nothing shows.

ETA: If the computers are in the children's area I would definitely bring that up to the director. Computers in the children's area are generally meant for children, and I could see why you were/are upset.
post #44 of 94
this is a HUGE issue. as you can see from the length of this thread. The American Library Association is against filters. they are quite liberal. http://www.ala.org/ala/aboutala/offi...verfilters.cfm they are about free speech (unless you are talking about putting a 10 commandments stone or a nativity scene outside the library). Not all libraries abide by their recommendations. Ours has adult computers (the ONLY ones not filtered) in a room w/ a door, you have to check in and out so they can monitor who is in there and their age. rest of the library has filters. I am very thankful for them. Please don't even let your kids search "Alice in Wonderland" on an unfiltered computer. AND (I also help out lots in our school and our local library) when they DO have filters they have to be updated **constantly** just like a virus or worm protection needs to be. things are always slipping through.
post #45 of 94
I wouldn't want that in my kid's face either. We can reserve (a limited number of) books online here and have them waiting for us at the front checkout desk, so that is what I would probably do.
post #46 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ldavis24 View Post

I figure DD will be exposed to a lot and my job is more to help her understand it than try to stop every little thing coming her way.

This exactly. You can't prevent them from every single inappropriate exposure... your job therefore is to help them process it a healthy way. In a situation like that I might have said to my child(ren) (had they noticed), I'm really not sure that's appropriate viewing at the library. What do you think? Then we would have an open conversation about what is appropriate for the library and what is not.

That said, my kids have been listening to/watching Marilyn Manson videos since they were quite small. I went to a Manson concert while pregnant with #2. I like Manson and I don't necessarily view him as inappropriate.
post #47 of 94
I think it's important to remember that the users in this case were children too.

I can't speak for you area, but in my area, libraries have 2 sections. One is clearly designed for younger children -- the furniture is small, the books are probably appropriate for up to about 6th grade, and the rules are a little more relaxed as far as noise etc . . . Then there's the adult room, which is very well adult -- quiet, formal, you get glared at if you whisper. What is there for 13 - 17 year olds? They get one twirly rack of "young adult" fiction.

If your library has a separate teen room, the I'll take this back, but if it doesn't then you need to ask yourself, where you'd rather you child be at 13, 14, 15? In the children's room or outside of the library altogether, having gotten the message that he's not welcome there.
post #48 of 94
That doesn't happen at our library and I wouldn't be okay with it at all. Our closest library has one kids' computer that only plays kids' games (preprogrammed, not internet). The rest of the non-catalog computers are downstairs in the adult section. It seems to work well as the kids don't see the adult stuff and the adults aren't bothered by noisy kids when they are trying to work/concentrate.

I wouldn't care if my teenager wanted to watch Manson or whatever else, but I wouldn't want a video like that playing near the children's section. I don't consider in censorship to restrict what is playing near the books that are meant for little kids. Just like if the library had porn (does it? I never knew! ), I wouldn't expect them to shelve it next to the board books, kwim? It isn't a "you can't watch that" thing as much as a "you can watch that over there instead".
post #49 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Narmowen View Post
I AM a librarian (MLIS in 3 weeks), and that could be done with a privacy screen . With a privacy screen, you have to be directly in front of the computer in order to see what's on it. Instead of censoring (which has many, many problems, especially with the ALA *American Library Association*).

Filters often catch too much, especially when homework and/or school work must be researched.

Sometime to keep in mind is that there are library policies that are against pornography (nipples and/or genitals), but things like what the OP saw would NOT be a problem. A bathing suit would be all right. A person with a sheet covering their butt, lying face down, topless, turning around to look at the photographer would be acceptable, since, although the person is nude, nothing shows.

ETA: If the computers are in the children's area I would definitely bring that up to the director. Computers in the children's area are generally meant for children, and I could see why you were/are upset.
Congratulations on your degree.

I agree that privacy screens would be a good idea, but kids can still walk right behind someone and see what they are looking at. They may not be able to view it at a diagonal, but they can still see what people are doing on the computer.

I'm addressing this from a PRACTICAL standpoint. I work in a library. I just managed a project to put in new computers in a children's/teen's department. I know what legally can and cannot be done. Libraries cannot make computers public access then say only people of a certain age can use them in certain areas (according to the attorney on our board of directors). It sounds like some libraries are doing this. If someone wanted to push the issue, the library could get in trouble for age discrimination. Filters must be on ALL the computers according to CIPA. Beyond that, there really isn't much a library can do. Nor is it their responsibility. We spent a YEAR dealing with this issue and we were as thorough as any library has been about what is our responsibility.

If you don't want your kid to see what others might be doing on the computer, keep them away from the computers. If you want the computers moved, it takes money, and with public library budgets, be prepared for them to ask you to raise the funding for something that isn't in that year's tight budget.

Oh, and while the filters may catch things that should be allowed an do not catch things that should not be allowed... that's the job of the computer tech team... to add those one-off sites. But there is no way to say "block out only Marilyn Manson You Tube". It's all or nothing. So, when people talk about filters, be careful what you ask for (even in your own minds) because you could be cutting off your nose to spite your face. That's why it's a slippery slope. You block Marilyn Manson and you block Susan Boyle, too. If all nudity is blocked then what does a student do if they are studying the nude sculptures of Maillol?

ETA: I despise Marilyn Manson. I personally think he is a disgusting human being and don't like his music. But I will fight for the right of others to listen to him and view his videos.
post #50 of 94
"...sounds to me like the problem is in the physical set up of the library. if you complain enough, it will probably get results."

Yup. I'm sure that my library operates under the exact same public-access laws as all other libraries, but the teensy little desks in the children's section, and the broad geographic distance between that section and the wing where the YA/adult books are shelved and the adult-sized computer desks are located, effectively solves the problem of teens or adults attempting to do inappropriate browsing in the kids' section.

It's true, there's no way I could check my email in the kids' section without looking like a fool. But that's a small price to pay for a setup that screams "don't surf here! These computers are for the little kids!"

And honestly, federal law or no federal law, I cannot IMAGINE these librarians tolerating an adult or teen hanging out in the little kid's section watching Marilyn Manson videos, looking at Playboy, whatever. This is the buckle of the Bible Belt, though, and a small town. People tend to share a conception of manners and discretion that involves not consuming sexual media in front of small children.

From what I can tell, though, anybody who can operate a computer independently is allowed to sit in the adult section and look at whatever. Again, small town, if they were being disruptive in any way that would be shushed by the adults around them and the librarian would go looking for their mom. But I imagine my son at age 10 or so, being quiet, announcing when asked that he is doing a report on Topic X, and then watching whatevertheheck. But that's a personal thing between me and my son - he wouldn't be exposing anybody else's kids to inappropriate stuff, and it's my job to make sure that he follows the family guidelines in his own media consumption.

Same thing for the 13 y.o. who wants to watch Marilyn Manson - do it quietly in the teen/adult section, and you'll get no flack from me (although your mother may shut you down when she walks by). Do it front of my toddlers on the unscreened computers in the kid's section, and I will march right up and remind you of your manners, and then go looking for your mom so SHE can remind you of your manners, and if neither of those work I am sure the children's librarian will be only to happy to remind you of your manners. Plus, you look really silly lying on the floor so you can reach the keyboard.
post #51 of 94
I would be PO'd too. I wonder if those kids even have library cards? The public library in Topeka requires that anyone using the computers have library cards...you have to type in your code to use them. Also there is a time limit as well so people can't just sit there all day and take up computer time that other people need. there are filters on the computers so that people just can't sit around and watch "whatever"

I know that there was a serious problem with kids just hanging out all day on the computer, being loud and running all over with no parental supervision. There was some drug-dealing going on and sexually explicit conduct. I know....(at the library? Are you kidding? )

Now there are actually policeman who come and kind of patrol around to make sure everything stays library-friendly. I can't believe the police come to the library to keep order..isn't that sad? But it's become a necessary thing so that that people can actually use the library in peace and quiet (and for what it is).
post #52 of 94
i have removed several posts from this thread, many because they were discussing posts that contained UAV.

please keep the UA in mind when posting to the thread:

Quote:
Do not post in a disrespectful, defamatory, adversarial, baiting, harassing, offensive, insultingly sarcastic or otherwise improper manner, toward a member or other individual, including casting of suspicion upon a person, invasion of privacy, humiliation, demeaning criticism, name-calling, personal attack or in any way which violates the law.
and

Quote:
Do not post or start a thread to discuss member behavior or statements of members made in other threads or to criticize another discussion on the boards. Do not post to a thread to take direct issue with a member. If you feel a member has posted or behaved inappropriately in a discussion, communicate directly with the member, moderator or administrator privately and refrain from potentially defaming discussion in a thread.
thanks.
marianne
post #53 of 94
The kids area here has kids games and a kids version of the library catalogue.

There are a couple other computers that have internet, with filters to restrict the internet.

There is a teen book area with computers that teens can use.

Computers with open access are in the adult area, BUT there are also signs saying you will be kicked off the computers if you are accessing porn or anything along those lines.

In a public place, there should be some restrictions, more so in the kids areas than others.
post #54 of 94
OP, I agree with you that that is not ok esp in the children's area, makes me wonder if the child/children on the computers parents knew what there child was watching...
post #55 of 94
At all of the libraries in my area- I am working towards a Library Science degree a couple of classes at a time, so I have been to them all for school related reasons- the code of conduct in them all states that you can't use their internet for message boards *yep, no MDC there*, videos and a long list of other reasons. So no, it would not happen at any around here.

The only exception is the University library, where you can use it for pretty much everything except the obvious- porn, etc, but there the children's section is on a whole other floor from where the student's computer's are.
post #56 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by HipGal View Post
I wouldn't care if my teenager wanted to watch Manson or whatever else, but I wouldn't want a video like that playing near the children's section. I don't consider in censorship to restrict what is playing near the books that are meant for little kids. Just like if the library had porn (does it? I never knew! ), I wouldn't expect them to shelve it next to the board books, kwim? It isn't a "you can't watch that" thing as much as a "you can watch that over there instead".
ITA with this!

Also, just because you can doesn't mean you should. I'm sure there's no law against bringing my toddler to the middle of the adult reference section where dozens of people are trying to concentrate and work and letting her loose to play making tons of noise but that doesn't make it the right thing to do. It's not appropriate use of what that area is meant for just like it's not appropriate use of the preschoolers area to have teens playing videos that *most* people deem inappropriate for young kids. I think it's common decency.
post #57 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovemygirl View Post
I think it's common decency.
I'm not really picking on you, but this phrase currently hits my irritation meter because of the way someone else used it a couple days ago. I don't have a problem with people watching music videos. I wouldn't care much if my kid saw them. My daughter is rather obsessed with Lady Gaga. (I have no idea how it got started.) She isn't two yet. She's seen most of the videos (I vetoed Paparazzi for being too graphic) and I doubt Marilyn Manson is worse.

I find that when people start campaigning for common decency, or a particular set of manners they are almost invariably not using any definitions of those terms I agree with. If I had a problem with what someone was doing in one area of the library I would walk up to that person and say, "Hey... I don't think you are actually doing anything wrong but I feel kind of uncomfortable with you doing that in the kid section. Do you think you might be willing to move that to an adult area?" I would not complain to the librarian. I would not complain to the director. I would treat the person I was having an issue with as a person and give them the chance to find out that their behavior is hitting buttons for someone. In my opinion *that* is the common decency. Not trying to make sure all behavior of all people everywhere is what some random person decrees. I'm not interested in playing that game. If the person said, "I don't really want to move" I would take my kid and go elsewhere. That to me is how being respectful of the people around you works.
post #58 of 94
Filters must be on ALL the computers according to CIPA

I'm a librarian, too. This statement is completely false. If your library restricts public access to information by taking federal funding that requires filters, so be it.

But my library makes a point of funding its own internet access so we can do what public libraries are supposed to do--provide unrestricted access to everyone regardless of age. Please see the Library Bill of Rights and the Freedom to Read and Freedom to View statements for more information. That's what guides public libraries.

OP, if you're willing to pay for privacy screens, great! If not, you'll have to make the same decision that a patron of ours who saw a Jane's Addiction album cover in the Teen room had to make last week--get your free* information and free* programming elsewhere.

*and by that I mean already-paid-for-by-taxes.
post #59 of 94
I do not want my library to make "think of the children" censorship decisions-I hate the very thought of it. The library should be a place of unfettered access to information.

If my son saw something I thought was inaappropriate we would talk about it, not censor the person looking at whatever it is. In fact, I would relish this discussion. What a great way to talk about how important libraries are to the free flow of ideas-both good and bad-in this country.
post #60 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by rightkindofme View Post
I'm not really picking on you, but this phrase currently hits my irritation meter because of the way someone else used it a couple days ago. I don't have a problem with people watching music videos. I wouldn't care much if my kid saw them. My daughter is rather obsessed with Lady Gaga. (I have no idea how it got started.) She isn't two yet. She's seen most of the videos (I vetoed Paparazzi for being too graphic) and I doubt Marilyn Manson is worse.

I find that when people start campaigning for common decency, or a particular set of manners they are almost invariably not using any definitions of those terms I agree with. If I had a problem with what someone was doing in one area of the library I would walk up to that person and say, "Hey... I don't think you are actually doing anything wrong but I feel kind of uncomfortable with you doing that in the kid section. Do you think you might be willing to move that to an adult area?" I would not complain to the librarian. I would not complain to the director. I would treat the person I was having an issue with as a person and give them the chance to find out that their behavior is hitting buttons for someone. In my opinion *that* is the common decency. Not trying to make sure all behavior of all people everywhere is what some random person decrees. I'm not interested in playing that game. If the person said, "I don't really want to move" I would take my kid and go elsewhere. That to me is how being respectful of the people around you works.
This, especially in reference to what is appropriate for children. Why? There are people who think children should be protected from my family in the name of "common decency."

I also agree that common decency is addressing the person you have an issue with respectfully and if that doesn't work then use your own personal right to leave the area.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Parenting
Mothering › Mothering Forums › Mom › Parenting › Does this happen at your library? Would you be okay with it?