DSHS took kids, mom rehab, can baby be adopted?

[HappyMommy2]

We have a distant relative who had her two kids taken away for neglect. She has just completed a 30-day rehab, and started the classes to try to get her kids back.

She knows she can't keep both. No job, no education, drug addiction, etc. She wants to give the baby up for adoption, but only if it is to our long time friends. The baby's father is dead.

Our wonderful family friends have been trying to adopt for several years, and they now live in Canada. They want the baby, and are completely comfortable with any special needs she may have due to drugs or abuse.

Has anyone been through a similar experience? I would love to hear thoughts and ideas!

Does the mom even get a say in where the baby goes at this point? Would she have to earn the kids back on her own, and then give the baby up? With her history of heroin and methadone, I just don't see her succeeding that easily.

The father of the older child is going to try to get full custody of him.

Can the state just keep the baby and let the foster parents adopt her eventually?

Would the state frown on her giving up one child, and would that make it harder to earn back the older child?

thanks mamas!!

[MeepyCat]

I'm not at all sure why the mom can't keep both kids, assuming that she can overcome her addiction (which it sounds like she's working to do). It seems that the goal of a foster parenting plan in this case would be to give her the time to get her life together - find a job, continue in drug treatment, possibly get further education - and be able to be reunited with both children.

Your relative should be in touch with a lot of social workers at this point, and she needs to discuss her options with them. However, I think they would be right to discourage her from making permanent decisions at this point. She needs more time to find her feet first.

[krisnic]

More than likely the state is working towards reunification of both kids. They don't typically work towards only reunifying with one child unless there are extenuating circumstances.

However, as it works in my state (Michigan), the state can give the parents permission to release their rights. The mother could release her rights to the baby, but it may impact reunifying with her other child (they may feel if she released on one, is she that devoted to the other - just their mindframe, not mine). Typically the state will ask if she has any relatives/fictive kin that could take care of the children while they are in care. She can tell them about the friends in Canada. I don't know how that would work over country borders. Canada may be different since it's so close though.

[Polliwog]

A lot depends on the state. I know some states don't allow conditional relinquishment of a child who is already in foster care. The parents in those places can relinquish their rights but don't have a say in who adopts the child as part of the relinquishment. My state allows conditional relinquishment. My son's birth mother relinquished her rights specifically so that I could adopt him.

But I agree with the others. The case plan is probably reunification right now and the mother shoud focus on getting her life together.

[HappyMommy2]

Yes, she does need to focus on getting her life together. I think that is an overwhelming prospect for her, though.

She is thinking that she might be able to get over the hurdles better because caring for one child might be acheivable. She might actually be able to give one a good life, but two is daunting. I don't think that makes her a bad mother, since the goal is getting the best life possible for each child.

(Well, she has not been a great mother, hence the whole situation!) But separating the kids as a way to improve her chances in life is a tough decision, and is perhaps in the best interests of the kids. I believe she will literally die soon, with the choices she is making, drugs, bars, sleezebags, and associated questionable activities to earn money.

Aside from the sibling issues, if this were an only child, do you think she would have any say in deciding who could adopt the baby?

[Polliwog]

Again, it depends on the rules of the state/county where she lives.

[HappyMommy2]

She is in MA. I know we probably don't have specific state experts though, I am just looking for your general feelings about what this would entail. Thanks mamas, you are great!

[Polliwog]

I wasn't trying to give you a hard time. It's just that there isn't a national CPS system so most things vary by state (either a little or a lot.) There may even be some sibling rights that the court will need to consider (especially if the baby would be moving out of the country.)

[HappyMommy2]

Oh! What kind of sibling rights are there? Would the state prefer this couple try to adopt both? Because they would certainly be willing to do that.

The Dad is who called CPS originally, and he is trying to get custody of the older brother. Although he has a history of drugs too.

[MeepyCat]

Originally Posted by HappyMommy2

Yes, she does need to focus on getting her life together. I think that is an overwhelming prospect for her, though.

She is thinking that she might be able to get over the hurdles better because caring for one child might be acheivable. She might actually be able to give one a good life, but two is daunting. I don't think that makes her a bad mother, since the goal is getting the best life possible for each child.

(Well, she has not been a great mother, hence the whole situation!) But separating the kids as a way to improve her chances in life is a tough decision, and is perhaps in the best interests of the kids. I believe she will literally die soon, with the choices she is making, drugs, bars, sleezebags, and associated questionable activities to earn money.

Aside from the sibling issues, if this were an only child, do you think she would have any say in deciding who could adopt the baby?

My thinking is that getting her life together is going to be a daunting prospect now - she just got out of rehab, things are going to be very hard - but that a year from now, she may find the prospects far less daunting. Her inability to cope may be temporary. (However, if she's out of rehab and still doing drugs, she may need to seek more inpatient treatment - things aren't going to improve while she's still using.)

If she placed the baby for adoption now, I would expect that decision to have an impact on the custody case regarding her other child. She can't place her older child for adoption without the father's consent.

[queenjane]

I think here, the issue would not be her deciding where to go...if she said "i'm willing to sign the baby over to my aunt" or something like that, maybe...i think the issue is her saying "i have distant relatives who have friends in CANADA i'd like to send the baby to..."...i'm not sure that would be taken too seriously here. They arent relatives, they arent even fictive kin (that is, they have no bond/relationship to the child)...i know that the girl i'm adopting (who is the sister to my foster son), had one relative interested in taking her (this is after TPR though), turns out she is fictive kin (a friend of the family) and hadnt seen the girl since she was 1.5 yrs old, so the state told my agency they dont even have to consider her (she wanted the child on request of the bio mom.)

They like to keep sibs together, but if the dad of the older one is fighting for him, they will split the kids up if he gets his child back (thats what happened with my foster son, he was removed from the FH with his sister, and given to his dad. Then he came back into care and placed with me, now i'm adopting both)...i also think, with my agency at least, they would look at it like "do we think this mother who clearly has made poor choices up to this point, is she in the position to make a placement decision about this child"...

So, where i live, i dont see this happening unless it was to go to a close blood relative or a person with a strong established bond to the child....but as others have pointed out, this varies from place to place.

[HappyMommy2]

Interesting, thank you so much for your thoughts! It sounds like the family friend option is going to be a tough road.

...So then, how many times does the mom have to mess up, before the state can just say, too bad we are adopting her out? Do they give drug addicts tons of chances?

[Polliwog]

Generally, at least a year. It's not as much giving the parents all the chances although it might seem that way sometimes. Instead, it's giving the children an opportunity to live in a stable home while their parents work on getting themselves together.

[HappyMommy2]

It looks like she isn't going to be able to get her kids back. She can't stay off drugs or out of trouble.

She is my husband's niece. It just seems so sad. We know a great family, and then we would be able to watch this baby grow up. We feel so powerless to help. I wish the mom and the extended family could help in the decision!

[Polliwog]

How was that decided? Are they going right to a termination trial (which is unlikely.)

[MissinNYC]

Originally Posted by HappyMommy2

Interesting, thank you so much for your thoughts! It sounds like the family friend option is going to be a tough road.

...So then, how many times does the mom have to mess up, before the state can just say, too bad we are adopting her out? Do they give drug addicts tons of chances?

Honestly, a long time. too long, sometimes. There is technically an 18 month cap, but I know of several kids who have been in the system, waiting for parents to get their acts together, for years and years. All of their parents are addicted.

Here, you cannot give the child to someone unless they are family.

[MissinNYC]

Originally Posted by HappyMommy2

It looks like she isn't going to be able to get her kids back. She can't stay off drugs or out of trouble.

She is my husband's niece. It just seems so sad. We know a great family, and then we would be able to watch this baby grow up. We feel so powerless to help. I wish the mom and the extended family could help in the decision!

How do you know? Did they change the goal or schedule a TPR hearing? Usually rhey give months and months, sometimes years before making that decision, even if the parent is relapsing again and again.

[sleepingbeauty]

It is so hard to be so close to a situation and have no legal say in what happens. I understand all too well that feeling.

I hope it works out for the kids...

[pumpkingirl71]

Originally Posted by HappyMommy2

She is in MA. I know we probably don't have specific state experts though, I am just looking for your general feelings about what this would entail. Thanks mamas, you are great!

I am in MA. My daughter is one of four siblings and she is the only one who has been adopted. I am trying not to get too emotional about my answer, but what my daughter had go through before her birthparent's right were terminated was unthinkable. It blows my mind that she has custody of any of her children. I will try to answer any state specific questions you have, but my daughter was adopted four years ago. Also, we are a kinship adoption and it took us about 18 months to bring dd home. This is a very complicated process.

[HappyMommy2]

Originally Posted by MissinNYC

How do you know? Did they change the goal or schedule a TPR hearing? Usually they give months and months, sometimes years before making that decision, even if the parent is relapsing again and again.

Sorry I wasn't clear! I don't *know*. I am just personally not optimistic about her getting clean. It doesn't look (to me) like she is going to stay off drugs and do the hard work of getting her kids back. She is still lying, drugging, associating with junkies, staying out all night long, etc.