Hope vs. Fear: Should I push for a third child?

[windsorheightsmom]

I will try to keep this short. My husband and I have two boys, ages 4 and 7. For the last two years, I have wanted to start trying for a third child. My husband is 100 percent against having any more kids. I thought he would come around by now, but he is as adamant as ever. Before we had kids, we talked hypothetically about having three, so that is always the idea I had in my head. I feel strongly that there is another child out there I am supposed to have. I also come from a big family (am the youngest of five children). My husband just has one brother.

We don't have any family around, and parenting has been more labor-intensive than my husband expected. He is more involved than probably 99 percent of the dads I know, so he has spent tons of time with our boys. He is totally on board with AP, but he doesn't want to go back to the baby/toddler phase. I have suggested hiring more help, even a part-time nanny, if we had another child, but he wouldn't want to be less involved with a third child than he has been with our boys. He has made career and other sacrifices for our family and feels I should respect his desire to stop at two children.

We have talked about this again and again but are making no progress. I feel a lot of despair and anger toward him for not trying to open his heart to the possibility of a third child. He just thinks it would be hassle and chaos, and we should be content to have two healthy boys.

Recently he expressed openness toward adopting a toddler/preschool-aged child. For some reason that idea bothers him less than the idea of another infant. I got all excited for a couple of days and started looking into our options/learning about the process. Then he made clear that he doesn't desire this at all. However, he would grudgingly go forward with adoption if it would prevent me from being angry at him forever.

I am torn between two truths. One, no one should ever be pressured or badgered into having a child they don't want. And two, almost no one ever regrets having another child once that child is part of the family. We have room in our house for another child, and we can afford to take care of another child. I was an "accident," and my parents ended up being grateful to have me in the family. So I think, I should get my way, because 10 years from now he wouldn't regret having a third child, but I would regret not having one.

Then I think that I am being an idiot, because pressuring him into having another child will torpedo our marriage, especially if the child ends up turning our family upside down. What if we adopted a child with attachment issues or other special needs and most of my time and energy was consumed by the youngest child's issues? I think my husband would resent that a lot, and maybe our bio sons too. I don't even know if we are candidates to be adoptive parents if he isn't fully on board with the idea.

In my hopeful moments, I imagine us adopting a little girl and him thanking me later for not giving up. In my fearful moments, I think I will go through life grieving because our family doesn't feel complete, or alternatively, I will ruin the good things we have now because I wouldn't take no for an answer.

[Ravenlunatic]

One option that may appeal to you both... fostering babies until they are able to be 'placed' and when the right little girl comes along you just ask that she be placed with you. The idea being that your DH gets the opportunity to see that the infant/baby phase is really no big deal and also he can become attached to the right little one before makeing the big leap into full fledged adoption.

Good Luck

[windsorheightsmom]

I have fears about fostering, related to how it would affect my kids to have other kids coming and going. It seems like that could be traumatic, but I admit I haven't researched this at all.

Also, I have a friend who fostered a sibling group and wanted to adopt them, but they were eventually returned to their parents. It was crushing for her.

[The Amber Lily]

Personally, I would stop at two. I agree with you that a third child would probably be lovely and he probably wouldn't regret it, but personally, in my life, I wouldn't take the chance of it ruining our marriage. That is my highest priority in terms of my family, providing a loving stable home with happy parents. I also intend to be with my husband forever, so I endeavor to do whatever I can to keep us both happy. I yield to him, and he yields to me.

Someone told us before we got married about communicating the importance of something: to use a scale of 1 to 10, one being not important and 10 being extremely important. If it matters to me less than 5, I don't worry about it. If it's a 6 to 8, we try to work out a reasonable compromise. If it's a 9 or 10 (or higher!), that is something I really stand my ground on.

No CIO, and no spanking/etc are like 100 to me on that scale. DH and I had a lot of talks and arguments and tension over these things, but I said we were simply not going down that road of raising our child that way. It was very distressing because how could a man who knew me so well and was so kind in every other way not understand me on these points?

And finally he did seem to understand, but it was partly because DD had grown out of the stage and was wonderfully pleasant, obedient, and well adjusted. Does DH want to do it again? No. Will I make him, or be angry at him forever? No. He could have walked out, but he didn't - he yielded to me. He is a kind, involved father and I am thankful for what he has done.

Yes, we had agreed before we were married to have two kids, and yes, I am disappointed that DD won't have a sibling close in age like DH and I each did, but she will have two parents who are kind to each other. A mental image is a lot different than a crying fussy baby, and a wife who slept in another room half the time for a period of two years.

A person can only cope with so much stress, and if your husband has reached his limit (or so adamatly thinks he has), it would be very loving, considerate and gracious of you to respect that. You don't HAVE to, but you could, just for his sake. You never know, you may have an 'oops' later on that he will be very open to just because it is later on in both of your lives, and you will have a happy family along the way.

It sounds like you have a very good thing going (an extremely good thing, really), and perhaps you could come to terms with just being present in that to love and enjoy who and what you have? I say this only because it is where I am. In the last year I have turned a few corners in terms of accepting my life as it is, instead of being upset about how it doesn't match up to what I would like. But, I am still struggling through.

In my better moments, I say to myself: "My life is OK. I have so much to be thankful for. It is not quite what I thought it would be, but perhaps it is good enough." And then, I turn my attention outward, to the people who matter most to me. If nothing else in my life, at least I could be a good mom and a good wife within the limiting circumstances that are mine.

"The time to be happy is now. The place to be happy is here. The way to be happy is to make others so." ~~ Robert G. Ingersoll

[Magelet]

I'd talk more about it with him. Maybe remind him of the wonderful parts of having a wee babe?

If that doesn't fly, maybe give it some more time and approach it in a little while. maybe he is feeling really stressed about something right now, so the idea of adding the stresses of a wee babe is beyond contemplation. Give it a little time, and come back to discussion.

I also think that it's important not to pressure him, and it's also important to express (if it is) how very important and strongly you feel about having another child.

[Smokering]

I don't know, but I wanted to offer hugs. That's a really hard issue to disagree on. I don't think your husband's being unreasonable, and I don't think you are either - it sucks to be in that position!

Just a warning re fostering: I'm not sure it'd convince your DH that the baby years are fun and Christmassy. A lot of kids are put in foster care because of drug issues and abuse, so the babies you fostered could well be detoxing, have attachment issues etc... in other words, they could scream all day long. Which might not soften him up to the idea of having more kids, you know?

[kirstenb]

Well, I went through something similar. STBX was strongly opposed to having another child after DS1. I didn't want a huge family, but I did want more than one. At the very least, I wanted DS1 to have one sibling. I would keep coming back to the issue until he finally said yes. I thought he was just afraid he wouldn't love a second child as much as he loves his first. I didn't really think he was that opposed to having another. DS2 is here now, and there is no question in my mind that STBX loves him absolutely and is thankful that he is here. However, we are separating and while having a second child isn't the only reason why, I know that it did play a part in ending our marriage.

[windsorheightsmom]

To Magelet: At first when we disagreed about this, I thought I brought it up too soon after DS2 was born. So I would drop the subject for months at a time. The last year or so we have had deep heart to hearts about it approximately once every month or two. I truly thought that if he had more time to get used to the idea, he would change his mind, seeing how important it is to me, but it is just as important to him.

Amber Lily, I appreciate your perspective. Sometimes I do tell myself that, I should just be thankful for the blessings we have. It's hard when I hear friends talk about how their husbands were originally against having more children but are now so happy they have a second, or a third. Also, I know from my own memories how fun it is to grow up in a big family, and it makes me sad my kids will miss out on that. Frankly, even three kids seems like a smallish family to me and a bit of a compromise from what seems ideal.

We're not going to have an "oops" because the birth control we use has only about a 1 in 1,000 failure rate.

[windsorheightsmom]

Also, I should have mentioned that we are both over 40, so I can't just give it a few more years before bringing it up again. I was hoping to have our last child a year or two ago.

[Kelly1101]

It takes two people to decide to have a child, and only one to decide not to.

If the shoe was on the other foot, and you were absolutely done having children and did not want to be pregnant again, and your husband kept pushing you for another child, you would begin to resent him and wonder why he couldn't respect you.


I'm in the exact same situation (except only pregnant with our second). I want three children, my husband only wants two. It has been difficult with me and we have had some long conversations about it. But to be blessed with two children is more than many people have, and I think I can be content with that. It is important to have a good home for the two we already have, instead of creating conflict and marital problems arguing over a hypothetical third. So I have accepted that if I was the one in his position, I would not want him to pressure me.

[windsorheightsmom]

Kelly1101, part of me agrees with you, but part of me thinks that the parent who would be the primary caregiver (at least in the early years) should have more say in the decision.

[The Amber Lily]

"Amber Lily, I appreciate your perspective. Sometimes I do tell myself that, I should just be thankful for the blessings we have. It's hard when I hear friends talk about how their husbands were originally against having more children but are now so happy they have a second, or a third. Also, I know from my own memories how fun it is to grow up in a big family, and it makes me sad my kids will miss out on that. Frankly, even three kids seems like a smallish family to me and a bit of a compromise from what seems ideal."

-----

I hear you, Windsorheightsmom. It's a really unfortunate situation to be in, because you and your husband are so opposed on something that means so much to you both. There isn't an easy answer, both in coming to a decision and then accepting it, for both people involved.

It depends where your priorities are. Could you accept the blessings you have, and mourn the loss of a life/future that is so important to you? Because it is a very real loss, and a very real grief. Could you work through the reasons why is is so important, and give yourself permission and forgiveness when the 'goal' is not achieved?

As an example, though not necessarily applying to you, could you accept your 'success' as a mother even if you only have two children? That you are not less of a mother or person for having less children than the example set by your family (and friends)? You are a greater mother/person by letting go of your vision of your family's future for the specific needs of a member of your family, your DH. Could you also forgive your husband, for not meeting your hopes/expectations on this issue? Could you get to a place where you understand him, and no longer hold it against him?

To share a bit of my story: We live in a 3 bedroom apartment, and I have lived in 'the city' now for 5 years. I was raised almost my whole life on 8 acres, with gardens, chickens, dogs, cats, and all kinds of interesting forest places. It is not likely that we will ever have that for DD. We will be lucky if we have 1/2 acre, and I will even gladly take 1/4 acre just for a piece of grass we can call our own and grow some vegetables on. Last fall, I uncharacteristically broke down in front of my parents and my husband over this.

Through this heart to heart, I received clear assurance that my parents did not think less of me and did not think we were raising DD poorly because of living in an apartment in the city. I received unspoken permission that it was ok to be here for an extended period of time, and it removed a huge block for me so I could move on. My daughter will not have the childhood that I had. It is hard to accept, and it hurts, really. But so it is. We will give her the best we can, and that's all we can do. She won't have my memories, but she will have her own and that's OK.

Is your vision for a family of three or more children so much a part of who you are that you have to push for it to be true to yourself? It very well may be, and no one can fault you for wanting another child. Could you adopt a toddler/preschooler? Would your husband be ok with that? Are you willing to accept the consequences though, if the worst happens and your husband just can't take it? Would he leave, and would the third child be worth that? Which would you regret more: losing out on the possible (but not guaranteed) joy of a third, or losing the good that you already have now?

[mamadelbosque]

I have two wonderful little boys, and while I could see myself with three, and would love three, I am perfectly 100% content with two. DH was perfectly 100% content with one, but I managed to finangle a second and so now I too am perfectly 100% content. Theres just no point, IMO, in ruining my marriage, my life, because I don't get 3 kids. Its just not, IMO, worth it.

[Aka mommy]

A happy marriage far outweighs the importance of the size of my family, to me personally. It is the grounding on which my children, who i have already brought into this world, are raised. If i shatter that, then i have been selfish. If pushing for a 3rd child shatters a marriage, is it worth it in the long run?

I've seen so many marriage split over this exact situation. So i have a very hard time with the concept. It saddens my heart and there is no clear cut answer, for anyone. I am sorry for what you're going through.

[windsorheightsmom]

Thanks, everyone, for their perspectives. I agree, marriages are fragile things, and this kind of dispute can break a marriage.

One reason I have a lot of trouble moving on is that I have experienced some devastating bereavements in my life, and my husband hasn't (yet). I really don't want to spend a year or so gradually giving up hope, followed by another year or so processing my feelings of grief over not having the family I feel I "should" have and could take care of. I can't help feeling like he is putting me through another major bereavement unnecessarily. What is the big obstacle on his part? We have the resources and capacity to take care of a larger family.

So I am pretty angry, and long-term I don't feel that's likely to be great for our marriage either. I could end up giving in on the third child and losing what I value in our marriage anyway.

[Daffodil]

My sister really wanted a third child, and her husband didn't. He agreed to pursue adoption, then backed out. Years later, she still regrets not having a third child. It's one of the major sadnesses in her life. If I were her husband, seeing that would make me wish I had just gone ahead and agreed, because it probably would have meant a happier wife and a better marriage. No, you don't want to risk destroying your marriage by insisting on a third child - but does your husband want to risk it by refusing to have one? Why should you be thinking about giving up what you want for the sake of your marriage if your husband isn't thinking of doing the same?

Of course, there's no guarantee my sister really would have been happier with a third child. Maybe that child would have been difficult and put a strain on the whole family. And one of her main reasons for wanting another was that she really, really wanted a girl. What if the third had turned out to be a boy? That was one reason they were interested in adoption, but of course that has its own risks.

[GoBecGo]

Just wanted to offer a

When i was with XP he wanted kids "one day" and i wanted them ASAP. We used NFP, and eventually we did have an oops. Up until then i was seriously angry. I wanted him to tell me he DIDN'T want to have a kid, because then, i felt, i could leave him with good reason, that we wanted different things in life. When i DID fall pregnant (the NFP was a joint decision, i didn't oops him on purpose or anything!) there was no suggestion of abortion, we had DD. We split soon afterwards. Our relationship was not surviving us NOT having a baby very well because it lacked so many other elements, and even WITH a baby it was still lacking those things. Ironically he has admitted to me since that he had no intention of ever having a child with me, but that he was happy to keep saying "one day" until eventually i would be too old. I feel sick to think he would do that to me, but equally it demonstrates beautifully his attitude to me and my desires - they were by-the-by to him.

It sounds to me that your marriage and family is essentially great, but that you want a 3rd baby. Rather than a 3rd baby is yet another thing he is withholding/controlling for the sake of it. I feel so sad for you, it's such a tough tough situation to be in. Would he attend marriage counselling with you to help you overcome your grief at not having a 3rd child? As much as a 3rd kid could torpedo your marriage if you went ahead and had one when he wasn't on board, the anger and resentment and pain you feel over not having a third could just as easily eat the relationship hollow.

I wish you so much luck, i don't know HOW i would handle this if it came up in my current relationship. x

[windsorheightsmom]

GoBecGo, what a painful situation for you with your ex. I am grateful that my husband has always been honest with me about what he is willing to do. As I said in the original post, he has made sacrifices to be present for me and for our kids. When I think about that, I want to respect his strong feeling that he can't handle the chaos a third child would bring to our family. But the other part of me believes that he is selling himself short and would handle it just fine, after the initial crazy adjustment period.

Daffodil, I feel like I need someone to time travel ahead 10 years and just tell me what to do! I hate the thought of having those long-term regrets, but as you say there is no guarantee your sister would have felt fulfilled if she did have a third child.

When I was more focused on wanting to have another baby, I tried really hard not to think about trying for a girl, because I didn't want to get my hopes up about the gender. I have friends with three boys, and that seems like a lot of fun too. Since we've started talking more seriously about exploring adoption, I've started realizing that the fantasy of raising a girl is very powerful for me.

[windsorheightsmom]

To Amber Lily: I have a friend in a similar situation to you. She grew up in the country and always wanted to raise kids in the country, but she lives in a suburban neighborhood near me instead. That is probably the hardest thing for her to come to terms with as a parent. I think what helps her is to focus on the advantages of living in town. There are so many activities her kids can do that would be impractical if they had to drive an hour each way to get there. She also spends a lot less time taking them to and from school and our religious congregation.

I think there are a lot of pluses to growing up in the city. A bunch of my college friends were from big cities, and they didn't feel the least bit deprived.

Where I struggle is in trying to think of any advantages of sticking with two kids. Sure, it's easier to travel with two than it would be with three, but we don't travel much anyway.

[The Amber Lily]

"I think there are a lot of pluses to growing up in the city. A bunch of my college friends were from big cities, and they didn't feel the least bit deprived.

Where I struggle is in trying to think of any advantages of sticking with two kids. Sure, it's easier to travel with two than it would be with three, but we don't travel much anyway."

-----------

Agreed. I just don't know what they are because I'm 'not from here'. I am learning, and I have learned a lot, but I don't have the 'ease of experience' here that I would have if we had a property. Sure, we have a library and a park and 'activities', but what good are they if I feel generally uncomfortable there? I have learned that they are reasonable places to be, but a private garden and backyard forest they are not. So to me, they are not advantages. They are adequate substitutes.

I'm not sure if or why there needs to be advantages to having two kids instead of three? And if there isn't a clear advantage, I don't think that makes it a poor choice. How is it better or worse to have two kids compared to three kids? Also, do you consider your husband's happiness as an advantage, and/or your unhappiness a disadvantage?

As for how the kids 'turn out', I agree with your friends. I don't feel deprived missing out on the perks of city life, and I wouldn't expect city people to feel deprived missing out on country perks. Likewise, many people don't feel deprived with only one sibling and most larger families wouldn't trade it for anything either. So I would say these things aren't the defining issues for a happy childhood and a successful future.

------------------
"I can't help feeling like he is putting me through another major bereavement unnecessarily. What is the big obstacle on his part? We have the resources and capacity to take care of a larger family."
---------------

I'm not sure that this issue is relevant to your other bereavements (aside from the pain that you are feeling). I'm also not sure that it is something he is deliberately putting you through, and certainly not to hurt you. It seems to me he is saying he really couldn't cope with a third child. That's it not just him being a little squeemish, or uncertain, but that he doesn't feel like he could be emotionally available to another child on top of having 2 children and a wife? To me, that is very valid.

A few questions for you:

1. What do you value in your marriage?
2. What are your goals in life?
3. Will you give up on your husband and your marriage if he does not give in?