Umm....garden planning help please?

[kittywitty]

This is my first year with a *real* in ground garden. We did containers pretty successfully last year. Sorry for the novel...

We live on the edge of 5b/6a zoning (southern IL). We have a 65 x 200' or thereabouts in town lot. Our front yard is basically entirely shaded. We have two ginormous tulip poplars blocking most eastern early sun. They are...huge. Over 4 stories tall (taller than the Catholic church across the street!). The people who lived here last planted trees in all the wrong places blocking most sun in our backyard and put in strange brick pathways and structures that take up a lot of usable areas. Nothing in my yard gets total full sun.

The best I get is the very back by the driveway and there is an ash tree and ornamental plum (this one we plan on tearing down-it seems to be diseased) blocking some light to it. Plus it's a little lower and it's not uncommon to get some flooding here in the spring/summer. Planting on the south side of the yard can't be too close to the neighbor-he's a priest who is very particular about his plants and sprays them almost every day with something toxic. Plus there are 3 huge burning bushes (?) that need to be removed/massively trimmed.

We built 3- 7'x4' raised beds. One currently has peas filling it, one has herbs, the other has herbs and lettuces just started. Then we did a 21' x 5' raised bed filled right now with broccoli, cabbage, sunflowers, carrots, onions, poppies, etc. (see garden plan below).

We have fruit bushes and flowers surrounding the house in the mulch that was just dead bushes and rock when we moved in-about 30 strawberry plants, 4 blackberry bushes, lilac, 4 raspberry canes, gooseberries, and currants. Plus zinnias, dahlias, and roses coming up.

So heres my problem. I need space for my kids to play, don't have strength (I'm pregnant and do almost all yard work without help) or money to remove the weird brick things yet, and need more garden space. I have so much I need to grow this year. Produce around here is always trash or non-existent, so I need to grow it myself. But I just can't find sunny space. Or figure out how to use it best. I thought I had more space than I do when I started planting seedlings yesterday.

Now I don't know where to put all of my beans, corn, melons, squash, and tomatoes in a few weeks. I am trying to use the SFG method of planting and grid. Not 100%, but trying. I realize I added too many of certain things now-like flowers-in my raised beds not knowing where else to put them and thinking I had waaaay more space than I do. I guess I will try to transplant them once they pop up. I don't know where, but I'd hate to kill them.

What has been planted so far in beds:

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...5SjJubVE&hl=en


Here's what I still need to plant:

50 sweet potato slips (supposed to plant in separate bed b/c of vines spreading)
5 lbs. german butterball seed potatoes
Tons of tomatoes (20+)
Melons-at least 15 would prefer more (thinking trellising but how with my light situation?)
At least 10 sets of Corn/squash/beans in 3 sisters arrangement partly for our science studies we are working on.

Here's what I have:
359 sq. feet garden space.
Only 170 unused.
21 more open in a little over a month or so when our peas are exhausted.
Possibly digging up some newly planted space to put something else in.
Might be able to add in 60 sq. feet if I leave only the one brick wide path between rows and extend one L shaped box 4 feet on short side.

Here was my yard last summer (I will post pics of the raised beds added tomorrow when I have light).

North side of house: http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v4...t=100_1235.jpg

Bad pic of front of house: http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v4...t=100_1242.jpg

Back view 1 looking east mid-day and mid-summer: http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v4...t=100_1262.jpg

About 10 feet north of there-same as above: http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v4...t=100_1263.jpg

[Owen'nZoe]

Whew - You have a lot going on! You do have some heavy shade in your yard, but I see a lot of patches of sun, too - that is reassuring!

For your veggies, could you grow your tomatoes in containers this year? If you do and you plant the rest of your raised beds using SF spacing, I think you'll have enough space. You can plant 2 sweet potatoes per sf, and 1 regular potato or melon per sf. If you can set up a trellis along one side of your raised bed, you can raise the melons vertically and save some room. The three sisters arrangement may be more difficult in a sf bed. I tried it one year and it was a dismal failure for me, but who knows - maybe if I had the patience to rework it, it would be great.

As for space for your kids to play, seriously, I wouldn't worry about it. First off, your yard is large - there will be space left for them even if you expand your gardens substantially. Second, if you are worried about not having large expanses of grass, they will find ways to play in the space they have. When I was 9, we moved into a house with a wooded lot and almost no lawn. It took us a little time to adjust, but once we did, we had great fun climbing trees and building forts under shrubs.

[kittywitty]

Thanks! I like the trellis idea for the melons. Which side of the bed should that be on, though? East, maybe?

Tomatoes in containers-nope. I got rid of all my containers after last year and my ones I replanted when we moved did well and my container tomatoes did terrible. I was thinking of planting them along the house in the mulch again but we have all the fruit and flower bushes growing there probably won't be room. I know you're not supposed to plant peas with tomatoes so I'm assuming I can't plant the tomatoes where the peas are once the peas are done? I think that may have been my problem last year if so for a lot of my tomatoes.

We've had this gardening 3 Sisters book for 2 years and have been waiting for the space. It says 3' mound (with 4 corn, 1 bean, 1 pumpkin growing) with 3' space on either side which sounds like a whole lotta space I don't have. Can you trellis pumpkins, too? I might be able to do them seperately if so.

[HeatherAtHome]

Those concrete paths look great for riding bikes on or playing "town". (Set up imaginary post office, store, house etc along the path.)

[Owen'nZoe]

The best spot for the trellis would be along the north side of your garden. If that won't work, would you say the garden gets more morning or afternoon sun? If afternoon, I'd go with the east side, if morning, I'd go with the west. You should be able to grow the pumpkins vertically, too, depending on how big of pumpkins you're growing. You'll probably need to make slings to support both the melons and the pumpkins - you can just make them out of old pantihose from what I understand.

As for the toms and peas, I've read that peas and toms are great companions in some places, and to never plant them together in others. I think I'd plant them in the garden the peas were in, personally. Add a little compost and crushed eggshells just to be sure.

Best of luck!

[kittywitty]

Well, the kids use the front walks for play and want the backyard for soccer & badminton. And they're actually much narrower than they look-maybe 18" at most wide. So the concrete walks and brick walks only cause scrapes when they run around and fall on the sudden hardness.

We use the circular fire pit thing-but it's kinda small and kind of a burn hazard. The problem is most of the brick is concreted in and there are no decent actual lawn areas for play. After living in apartments for years, my kids really want *lawn*, kwim? But that all will have to wait until we find out how best to take it down, or move in a year or two (dh's job is on the rocks after next year).

THANK YOU! For the trellis info. I haven't been able to find a good explanation anywhere. Exactly what I needed for that with my melons!

I'm taking pics today in a.m., afternoon, and evening to track the sunlight. I'm realizing somewhere I planted a blackberry bush is actually mostly shaded though I thought it was sun when we planted it. I know they're ok in shade, but my kids love blackberries and they produce more in sun, so I think I'll try to move them.