DH still resisting the idea

[libranbutterfly]

DH and I have been talking about the next child. He has made comments that made me think he would be against circ, but apparently he is still worried about the boy feeling awkward in the locker room at school. I asked him if anyone seriously used the showers at school when he was there, because none of the girls did (same school) He said some did, but I really dont see this happening much anymore, unless they are in sports, right? Besides, circ is not being routinely done as much anymore, right? Just seems odd.
He is against any of our children's ears being peirced unless they ask for it. We will not do any haircuts until child asks for it, and he is all for letting the children make their own choices for their body on EVERYTHING except this. He said he just didnt want to tell his 13 yr old that he looks different because mommy didnt want him to get circ'd, and that he would not take a 13 yr old for a circ if they wanted one, so it would be best to go ahead and do it I asked why he thought it would be better if done to a baby and he said they wouldnt remember, and it wouldnt hurt. I told him that it definitely hurt, and that they usually didnt use anesthetic with babies, but he is still being weird about it. He also made a comment about there being no way he could ever get a V because he wasnt letting anyone near his penis with a sharp object. I asked him why our son shouldnt have that same right, and he didnt answer. I know he is closer to agreeing but I am worried he will try to convince me closer to time if it is a boy and I really dont want to.

[PuppyFluffer]

There are so many different angles to the issue of why infant circumcision is wrong. In order to really understand them, a circumcised man has to first come to the conscious realization that he has been harmed by those who were responsible for protecting him - his parents and the doctors. It's a very difficult thing to do. The urge to continue the cycle of circumcision in a family often comes from the circumcised male. To break the cycle and leave a child intact is to say that what happened to him is not worthy of doing to another. It's a pretty heavy thought to process.

How would you feel if you woke up one day and learned that you are missing a piece of your very most private parts, that it had been removed from you as a helpless baby at the request of your parents and that you don't have the full function and sensation of your sexual parts because if it? I think that would be pretty mind blowing to you and you'd need some time to work through your emotions.

Circumcision hurts. It is ecruciating for a baby. I have personally heard from a nurse that when anesthesia is applied, time is not given for it to become effective. In essence, the baby experiences the pain of the injection, the sting of the lidocaine and in an effort to "get this done", the surgeon starts right away - basically putting the baby through an additional painful process with little benefit to him.

[ElliesMomma]

it's the *mom's* decision when you give birth in a hospital. they need *your* signature... you are literally the decision maker. (your husband can elect to have it done later, but if he wants it done in the immediate post-birth time frame (i.e., the "standard" time that circumcisions are done) -- it *has to be with your consent*).

so my advice to you would be to know that you can hold firm in your decision to not consent to it, and just don't let him talk you into going against your better judgment.

husbands have a knack for turning it around on the wives, and making like we are making a decision that's different or off the wall, by not circumcising. when my DH tried to do this to me, and we did get into some rather heated conversations about it... i found the most effective way to handle it was to point out that he is the one in favor of doing an unnecessary *surgery* on your child... and that i am the one saying, let's just take him home exactly the way he was born. like, duh, isn't that the obvious thing to do. and finally i said to him that i don't have to convince him why letting the child keep his penis the way god created it, is the right decision... that he would have to ocnvince me why a surgery is needed.

he didn't try. he said something along the lines of me getting my way, and i didn't attempt to justify it further. i figured a win is a win, and when the guy gives in on this, just quietly rejoice, don't rub it in his face, and be GLAD.

it is all just so much about the man needing to validate what was done to him (his circumcision) by doing it to his own child. not a ligitimate medical reason. a psychological issue on the part of the man, that's all.

just hold tight to your own convictions, don't let him get to you on this, and your child will be fine!

[mattemma04]

How about,"His penis does not belong to you or me.We have no right to alter his sexuality forever.What others are doing with their children is irrelevant."

Response to boy on being different," You have a normal penis,and I have a penis that was circumcised.When a person gets circumcised they cut off XY and Z."

I know cicr is more than the loss of the foreskin,but I forget all the parts hence xyz. Why would a circed dad feel embarrassed for a son with a normal penis? It is difficult for some dads to come to terms with the loss they have,but they should feel good about allowing their son to have a normal sexual life and not keeping the cycle of cutting ongoing.


Genital cutting really should be illegal.

[laughingfox]

Ask your DH how much detail he really remembers about other boys penises in the locker room at school. Chances are, he'll answer "zero".

If anyone does notice something different about another boy's genitals in a locker room, they're probably not going to point it out.
The boy who is "looking" would probably get picked on a lot more than the boy who is "different".

Since he seems to be taking it for granted that your son would want this later anyway, I'd leave that argument aside and just remind him how very much worse it is for a baby than a teenager.
Consent issues aside, they have to peel the still-adhered foreskin of a newborn before they cut it, thus making the entire glans into an open wound- an open wound that will then sit in a diaper filled with urine and feces.
A teenager wouldn't have those issues (on the slim chance he decided he wanted it done) since he'd likely be retractable and out of diapers. I could be wrong, but I think things like adhesions and skin bridges are a lot less likely after natural separation has already occurred, also.
On a teenager, it would be a lot easier for the doctor to not accidentally cut off more than he meant to, or accidentally make the cut asymmetrical, etc, because the penis would be a lot larger and more developed. Not to mention that, unlike a newborn, if a teenager felt an infection coming on after the procedure, felt additional discomfort, etc, he could tell you.

[alegna]

The tides are turning. It is quite likely that by the time your son is in a locker room intact penises will be the norm. IF that is the case and he's circed, then there's nothing to be done. If he is intact and unhappy with it, he can always be circed later.

-Angela

[miami mommy]

My DH was resisting the idea of leaving him intact at first. I gave him a long lecture and tried to drive home the point that there are some babies who die and there's no point in taking the risk, even if it's small. Especially for a surgery that our ped described as cosmetic. I gave him time to think it over, but I told him that he would have to watch a circ video on the internet before I would allow DS to be circed. (Of course, I was never going to let him be circed anyway!) I watched a circ video and couldn't make it past the foreskin retraction. It was horrific! DH eventually agreed not to circ, but he couldn't bring himself to watch the video. At the childbirth ed class at the birth center, they have a circ video that they show to anyone willing to watch. I didn't watch it, but some of the dads-to-be did and there was a lot of groaning and shouting coming out of the room.

[laohaire]

My instinct reading that, is that your DH still feels uncomfortable but won't "lay down the law." Let that be enough. I'd stop talking to him about it, it's obviously an uncomfortable issue for him, and we women have a tendency to keep after our men until we're 110% satisfied, but that makes them cling more to their positions. I too would want my man totally onboard and agreeing but him not interfering is really enough in this case.

[Fyrestorm]

Originally Posted by ElliesMomma

it's the *mom's* decision when you give birth in a hospital. they need *your* signature... you are literally the decision maker. (your husband can elect to have it done later, but if he wants it done in the immediate post-birth time frame (i.e., the "standard" time that circumcisions are done) -- it *has to be with your consent*).

Just to clarify...this varies from state to state and hospital to hospital. When I declined EVERYTHING at the hospital...they immediately went to my DH to see if they could get him to sign on the dotted line. They never made him prove he was the baby's father or even married to me for that matter. He came in with me and claimed paternity, hence our hospital granted him full decision making ability. We were on the same page though, so it was no worry.

[Claire and Boys]

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm

Just to clarify...this varies from state to state and hospital to hospital. When I declined EVERYTHING at the hospital...they immediately went to my DH to see if they could get him to sign on the dotted line. They never made him prove he was the baby's father or even married to me for that matter. He came in with me and claimed paternity, hence our hospital granted him full decision making ability. We were on the same page though, so it was no worry.

I have no words but That's DISGUSTINGly wrong on so many levels. So if the father consented they'd just go against the mother's wishes on everything?

[Fyrestorm]

Originally Posted by Claire and Boys

I have no words but That's DISGUSTINGly wrong on so many levels. So if the father consented they'd just go against the mother's wishes on everything?

That's the idea at my hospital...I think they might have figured out that he wasn't going to be of any assistance to them when he literally slapped the Vit. K needle out of the nurses hand. (I was yelling "NO" and she was on complete auto pilot)

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

When all else fails thats when you let your mama bear take over. If by the time your baby is here he still hasnt came around you have to put your foot down and protect your ds.

Circ rates stand at around 50% now so odds are very high that even if your ds has to shower in school he will not be the only intact boy by a long shot. The kids dont shower here never have.

[Night_Nurse]

OP - this is for you to read (not your DH) - http://www.udonet.com/circumcision/v...ty_of_men.html . Some ppl here have said it's proved helpful in situations such as yours.

[claddaghmom]

It sounds as if the primary problem isn't his locker room issue, but rather his perception of a newborn as a person with individual rights. He doesn't think a baby will remember? He doesn't think a baby will feel the pain? He doesn't view babies as human beings on this issue.

I would get him on the same page by emphasizing the humanity of babies and the agonizing pain and brutality of circumcision. Have him watch circ videos, read about the rates, anesthetic and how it works (or rather doesn't) and learn about the complications. He needs to see that circumcision is not a little snip quickly forgotten and that babies are not empty slates.

What is Circumcision?

Here is a pro-circumcision educational video with subtitles.
http://video.yahoo.com/watch/4813345/12842144

Welcome to America, Baby! -- 2mins
http://video.yahoo.com/watch/935124/3668656

Typical Canadian Circumcision
http://www.intact.ca/video.html

Contrast and compare pictures of cut and intact penises:
http://www.circumstitions.com/Restric/comparison.html

Baby Circumcision Photo Collection:
http://tinyurl.com/3523bz

Pain
http://www.cirp.org/library/pain/
http://www.circumcision.org/response.htm
http://www.infocirc.org/babypain.htm
http://pediatrics.aappublications.or...full/100/4/626

Percentage of Pain Control Actually Used
http://pediatrics.aappublications.or...full/101/3/423
http://pediatrics.aappublications.or.../full/101/6/e5

Rates
http://www.cirp.org/library/statistics/bollinger2001/ (American)
http://www.cirp.org/library/statistics/USA/ (American)
http://www.courtchallenge.com/refs/rate1m.html (Canadian)
http://www.courtchallenge.com/refs/s...hi-2005-e.html (Canadian)

Risks and Complications
http://www.circumcisionquotes.com/complications.html
http://www.fda.gov/cdrh/safety/circumcision.html (clamping methods)
http://www.infocirc.org/fourn.htm (plastibell)
http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/full/169/3/216 (plastibell)

Sexual side effects
http://www.boystoo.com/medical/conversion.htm
http://www.reserach/cirp.org/
http://www.norm.org/lost.html
http://www.notjustskin.org

[claddaghmom]

And anytime he brings up older males not wanting to be circumcised or otherwise have their genitals altered, you can tell him, "If it's not good enough for a teen/adult then it's not good enough for a baby."

[-Grace-]

Originally Posted by Claire and Boys

I have no words but That's DISGUSTINGly wrong on so many levels. So if the father consented they'd just go against the mother's wishes on everything?

Legally parents have equal rights. A child is not more the mother's than the father's. What's disgustingly wrong is the idea that babies are property of mothers when the father is known. It takes two to make a baby.

[Sharlla]

My 11 year old has never asked why he looks different "down there" than his dad. That whole argument is completely laughable. oh and DH is intact (not my 11 year old's father) and he never asked his father this either.

Honestly I would not have child with someone that was pro circ. That is not something I am willing to do to a child of mine.

[Sharlla]

Originally Posted by alegna

The tides are turning. It is quite likely that by the time your son is in a locker room intact penises will be the norm. IF that is the case and he's circed, then there's nothing to be done. If he is intact and unhappy with it, he can always be circed later.

-Angela

My DH has never felt embarrassed of his penis growing up.

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

Have you did a search here for all the posts of dealing with dh's who dont want to not circ? Those have some great ideas on how to deal with things.

[Fyrestorm]

Originally Posted by -Grace-

Legally parents have equal rights. A child is not more the mother's than the father's. What's disgustingly wrong is the idea that babies are property of mothers when the father is known. It takes two to make a baby.

But without a paternity test as far as the hospital is concerned, the father is not known. How many woman have been pressured into STD testing at their OB appts. even though they swear they've only been with their DH? So if doctors assume that all husbands cheat...they ought assume all wives do as well.