What if the child decides?

[mama2toomany]

Say you have a ds or dd that is 13 or so.. has looked into it on their own and decides they want to be vax'd?

What then?

[~Charlie's~Angel~]

Well, I am not there yet, and have quite a few years to go. But let me put it to you this way,

I have an almost 16 year old sister. If, heaven forbid, something should happen where I become her legal guardian, my answer would be NO. Not until shes 18 and I can no longer legally keep her from doing it. This of course goes along with my parents views, so it wouldnt be an issue in that respect.

[ammiga]

What if he looked into it on his own and decided he wanted to drive a car? Drink? Drop out of school?

There is a reason that we are given the responsibility to make decisions for our children until they are 18 years old. It is a medical fact that until 17 or 18 years of age, people do not have the brain connections necessary to understand the long term ramifications of their decisions. They need someone who is older and capable of looking forward to make them for their own benefit. Of course, they make many decisions on their own, but when it comes to decisions that have long term and permanent consequences, that is what children have parents for.

If not vaxing was something that I felt was important, I would take this opportunity to sit down and talk with my son about why he wants to vaccinate and what my thoughts on his reasons were. You could hold an educational conversation with him and learn a lot about how he researches and where he is getting his influence from, as well as show him how to research the flip side of the coin.

[-Grace-]

I wouldn't say no with an iron fist. We'd listen to her and hear out her reasons. If it seems like she's really grasped the risks and any potential benefits, then we would consider her wishes.

[daisymama12]

My then-16 year old niece worked for a year to save up to do a foreign exchange program. The program she chose to travel with did not accept unvax'ed students, so she went from unvax'd to fully vaxed pretty quickly.

I thought it would be a big deal for her parents, as they have had to face some serious opposition to not vax their kids, but they were pretty laid back about it. They know she is pretty mature, and can make her own educated decisions. The mum thinks it's still better than if she had been vaxed as an infant, and I think that's probably true.

[mysticmomma]

I wouldn't say no with an iron fist. We'd listen to her and hear out her reasons. If it seems like she's really grasped the risks and any potential benefits, then we would consider her wishes.

: Dialogue would ensue, but vaccinations likely would not.

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by mama2toomany

Say you have a ds or dd that is 13 or so.. has looked into it on their own and decides they want to be vax'd?

What then?

I agree that dialogue would ensue, but I find it hard to believe any 13 yr old is capable of reseaching this topic with the depth and understanding that it would take to make a truly infomed choice. I have been researching this topic heavily for over 4 years and I still grapple with many aspects of the science. This is a choice that requires a lot more than "looking into it" casually IMO.

[mama2toomany]

See part of me wants to be a mama bear and say.. no sorry.

My 13 year old isn't like most kids his age, he is very mature and very smart. I usually let him make his own choices. He doesn't think like most kids. Its hard to explain.

I know he would make an informed decision, I know he wouldn't just do something to do it. He hasn't asked to be vax'd yet, but I feel it coming because he is doing his own research.

He at 13 is more responsible then most men I know. I wouldn't really take him seriously if he was how most 13 year old boys are.

I would of course want to know why he wants to be vax'd, but I do honestly feel that if he is making an informed decision, it should be his choice.

[ammiga]

Do some research on when certain brain connections happen. Although your son may be very mature for his age, it is biologically impossible for him to conceive of long-term consequences to his actions.

I'm not saying to rule with an iron fist at all! I'm just suggesting that you use this as an opportunity to have a conversation with your son, to learn from him, and to give him a chance to learn from you. I would keep it a very open dialogue and tell him that these decisions take years of research, just like you did when you chose not to vax him. Encourage him to continue his research and give him additional resources.

[philomom]

I haven't had this happen yet. My kids are teens and are partially vaxed. Don't flame me.. hubby and I do our research and a few things do seem worth the risk to us.

My 16 year daughter says most of her friends got the guardisil vax. I'm opposed to that one and we do personally know a girl who went from sports goddess to couch potato after this particular shot. So far, my daughter agrees with me.

[Irishmommy]

Originally Posted by ammiga

What if he looked into it on his own and decided he wanted to drive a car? Drink? Drop out of school?

All of which are illegal. Being vaxed is not illegal.

[mama2toomany]

Originally Posted by Irishmommy

All of which are illegal. Being vaxed is not illegal.

Yep.. the driving thing kinda made me laugh a little. He knows how to drive and actually saved his grandpas life once. He drove him to the hospital, they were in the woods cutting down trees and grandpa took a chainsaw to his leg, he actually passed out from blood loss, no cell phones.. it was very scary.

[CorasMama]

I think it's important for preteens/teens to start having a say in their medical care. My daughter gets some say in her medical care (some stuff her doctors have said, she has refused, and for her own reasons that I cannot refute.) In fact, when she had an endoscopy and colonoscopy, there was one form amongst all the paperwork that SHE had to sign (there wasn't even a space for me to sign it,) and more and more, they're starting to really genuinely consult her. It'd be bad if, at 18, suddenly she had to take charge of her medical care and hadn't had any experience in doing so.

Sure, I understand about brain development, which is why I still get to make the ultimate decisions (about most things, and only for now), but it IS her body, and this is the age where we really need to start turning over to them their bodily autonomy.

[mama2toomany]

Originally Posted by CorasMama

I think it's important for preteens/teens to start having a say in their medical care. My daughter gets some say in her medical care (some stuff her doctors have said, she has refused, and for her own reasons that I cannot refute.) In fact, when she had an endoscopy and colonoscopy, there was one form amongst all the paperwork that SHE had to sign (there wasn't even a space for me to sign it,) and more and more, they're starting to really genuinely consult her. It'd be bad if, at 18, suddenly she had to take charge of her medical care and hadn't had any experience in doing so.

Sure, I understand about brain development, which is why I still get to make the ultimate decisions (about most things, and only for now), but it IS her body, and this is the age where we really need to start turning over to them their bodily autonomy.

Your point is my exact point lol, I still have not made a decision but I do think that the decision about his body and his well being should be up to him in part. I would never force him into something he didn't want to do, but I also want him to be informed and I know he will be. I was just curious.. cause I feel it coming kwim?

[kriket]

Excellent question. I think we would have to have a chat. If they wanted to do it because friends or media was telling them to do it, I would try to help them see that it was pressure from friends and media, not logical fact. If it was some kind of act of defiance, and I knew it, I would probably just put my foot down. Kids rebel in strange ways. A girlfriend's daughter once wrote a paper on how great G.W. Bush was and wanted to start going to church. All out of defiance. Defiance isn't a way to make good decisions.

[ammiga]

Originally Posted by Irishmommy

All of which are illegal. Being vaxed is not illegal.

Ok, what if he decided he only wanted to eat sugar? Or never do his homework again? But my point is the same. Especially given the fact that many parents do think that when their children show a certain level of maturity they will allow them to drink or drive or have sex or whatever.

Of course it is important to parent our children. And parenting our children means helping them to grow, while recognizing their limitations. We are parents and guardians for a reason until they are 18. They should not be autonomous beings before then. As they grow and mature, it is our job to help them and recognize their growth, while also knowing our role as their parents.

I just don't see how children should be making permanent decisions regarding their medical care. There is no way they can comprehend the long term effects of their choices. I think they should have an active role in researching and learning, but I don't think they should get a final say in the matter. This is an excellent opportunity to open the doors of communication and teach our children and show them that we respect their opinions by listening to their concerns and holding a two-way conversation.

[Irishmommy]

Ammiga, CorasMama pretty much said what I would say in reply, right down to dd and I both filling out consents for stuff the hospital, at which time I asked whose decision would they follow if we differed, and the hospital (one of the best kids' hospitals in the world) said my then 14yo's decision overrode mine.

Only eat sugar? You can't police a teen's diet. Never do homework? How do you enforce that they do it? You can't.

[Magelet]

I'd listen to him VERY seriously in this case.

(and yes, if my kid wanted to drop out of school, I'd let him/her, provided the option was well thought out homeschooling/unschooling or another plan.)

I beleive our society tantalizes teenagers. Really, if the teenagers were as stupid as a few studies say they are, then humanity wouldn't exist, since teenagers are the ones having and raising children for most of history. Most teenagers I know badly want to be grown up, respected, have choice in their lives, and have authority. Instead, they are unable to take up adult responsibilities and denied adult rights.
Quite frankly if the only "meaningful" thing you were allowed to do without getting grounded/community service/a permanent record is sit in classes which are boring you, and you know they have no relevence to your life, and spend or not spend money or parents gave you (or maybe maybe if your "old enough" get a part time job that interests you and earn some money, however you still can't vote on things that effect you, or do anything without your parents decision.), were constantly told you can't make good decisions (not just by parents/teachers/other well intended folk but by all representatives of your peers in the media, and were EXPECTED to behave badly, you would behave immaturely as well.

There's no arbitrary age when all of a sudden, a child's brain turns into a "safe" adult brain. It happens gradually for sure, but it also happens at different ages depending on the child and on their circumstances.

On the other hand, it's true that you surely have very good reasons for not vaxing, and you can't UN-vax. so I would talk to my son a lot, respecting his opinions, and learn why he wanted to be vax-ed. We would research more together, and I'd ask him to think about it, because you can't un-vax. And then, if he had good reasons, and could convince me that he had thouroughly weighed the risks and the benefits to him, then I would probably let him do it.

[claddaghmom]

No, I would not allow my teen to be vaccinated at 13. At 13, you are the primary caregiver. So when your teen says "I want to be vaccinated" you are still responsible for any consequences. The bill comes to your house, in your name.

Now, if I had a 13yo who had his own job, paid his own health insurance and wanted to do it, I would feel that is more his choice. As his parent, I would still be really worried and try to work through the issue and tell him I didn't want him to do it. But his money, his job, his insurance....there's not much else I can do at that point.

I would also be willing to give longer pause if this topic was being broached by a 16yo+ teen.

I also think dismissing the PP's analogies because they are all illegal dismisses the primary points: 1) we as parents can recognize danger and 2) teens might ask for things that put them in danger, legal or not.

But then, I'm just chiming in with my 2 cents. My daughter is 17 months old and my 14yo sister laughed so hard when she went through the vaccine debate that she peed her pants a little. I have zero experience in this and feel for the mamas who have to work through this issue. I do think that sitting down and going through the issues is a great idea for a teen. They are becoming aware of their culture and their bodies and they deserve to be informed. I would wonder why a 13yo is asking to be vaccinated, too.

[Pookietooth]

Wow, that's something to think about. I don't think that my ds would ever choose to be vax'ed. Funny, I'm seeing a banner ad for the flu shot right now. Anyway, I think I'd take it on a case by case basis.