Should I, and how do I, talk to my DD?

[Raelynn]

One of my good friends, a mom who has an intact 9mo son, told me about a conversation that she and my almost 10-yo DD had recently. My DD has never said a word to me, or asked any questions, about circumcision, though I'm not exactly quiet about my opinion of RIC.

Here is how the conversation went between my DD (J) and my friend (A). A was changing her son's diaper at Ikea, and my DD was peering in and looking at his penis.

J: Did you cut his penis?
A: No, it's just small because he's a baby
J: No, some moms cut their baby's penises
A: No, I didn't cut him
J: Good. I don't know why some moms would hurt their babies, and I don't know if I could be friends with you if you cut your son's penis.

My friend didn't say much after that, but now I'm wondering if I should have a talk with DD, lest she say something to my one friend who DID cut her son (we only know 1 cut boy in our circle of friends that my DD would ever possibly see without a diaper on). My husband is concerned that she is going to say something to someone and offend them.

What do you think? And how do I bring it up?

TIA!

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

OK part of me is thinking good for your dd and it wouldnt be such a bad thing if she did say something to a parent who circed. But I know that isnt right

I would probably say something like yes some people cut and we know it is wrong but it isnt polite to talk about other peoples genitals even babies. Some people might get upset and we dont want to upset other people.

[glongley]

Honestly, my first reaction was how right on your daughter's response was. So straightforward and honest. Your daughter gets it on so many levels: she knows people do it, but she knows it's wrong, and her gut level reaction is to feel like she just cannot respect someone who would do that to a baby. Children are so honest, and that is a real gift. In fact, coming from a child, it might be a lot easier to hear than from another adult.

I wouldn't want to give her any message that would cause her to second guess these very appropriate ethical and emotional responses that she has shown, nor to take away her "voice." That would harm her own integrity. However, some help in learning more mature or socially graced communication approaches might be in order. Perhaps helping her to understand that everyone makes the best decisions they can based on the information and support they have might soften her reaction. Or just simply talking to her some more about her feelings and knowledge about circumcision so you can make it an open topic where she feels safe to process her feelings.

Heck, your daughter's response is exactly the kind of reaction we all go through when a friend decides to circumcise. We all struggle with it. It is hard to know what the right reponse is, but certainly some response is needed, not just teaching her to keep silent when some important ethical issue is at stake. Brava to your daughter, and let us know how things go.

Gillian

[aidanraynesmom]

Originally Posted by glongley

Honestly, my first reaction was how right on your daughter's response was. So straightforward and honest. Your daughter gets it on so many levels: she knows people do it, but she knows it's wrong, and her gut level reaction is to feel like she just cannot respect someone who would do that to a baby. Children are so honest, and that is a real gift. In fact, coming from a child, it might be a lot easier to hear than from another adult.

I wouldn't want to give her any message that would cause her to second guess these very appropriate ethical and emotional responses that she has shown, nor to take away her "voice." That would harm her own integrity. However, some help in learning more mature or socially graced communication approaches might be in order. Perhaps helping her to understand that everyone makes the best decisions they can based on the information and support they have might soften her reaction. Or just simply talking to her some more about her feelings and knowledge about circumcision so you can make it an open topic where she feels safe to process her feelings.

Heck, your daughter's response is exactly the kind of reaction we all go through when a friend decides to circumcise. We all struggle with it. It is hard to know what the right reponse is, but certainly some response is needed, not just teaching her to keep silent when some important ethical issue is at stake. Brava to your daughter, and let us know how things go.

Gillian

While part of me agrees with that, something you may also want to consider is that some people allow their boys to be cut out of ignorance or coercion. You have no way of knowing how the mother truly feels about the state of her son's genitals.

I feel exactly the way OP's dd does about respecting others who would do that to a baby - NOW, but that's bc I'm one of those how allowed that to happen to her precious boy and is guilt-stricken over it. I get it now, and if someone saw my ds's penis and then preceded to tell me they could not respect me for choosing to allow that to be done to him it would only set me back in my struggle to forgive myself and move on. Maybe such a judgmental sentiment is the last thing she needs.

If this were my child, I would be completely honest and share my feelings. Tell her exactly how it is. Some people allow this to happen bc they don't feel like their baby has the right to make the choice, or because the baby's father insisted on it or...and then explain that sometimes mamas do things they wish they hadn't (who among us hasn't at one point?) once they thought about it or learned another way of thinking and we shouldn't make any hurtful comments to anyone, because really we have no idea how they are feeling. Even if they are defenders of RIC (and as hard is it would be to not tell them off!) we need remember that words can hurt, even if its the truth.

I think its a fine line of not squelching her innocence and caring, and molding it and evolving it to extend that love to the ones who are choosing something she doesn't agree with. Its easy to show love the weak and innocent. What about those who may really need it and are only being made to feel worse?

[-Grace-]

I'd be so proud of my daughter if she said this, but I'd also have a talk with her to let her know that there are a lot of ignorant people out there who don't know better and a lot of people who are coerced. I'd let her know it's important to know why someone circumcised before holding it against them, but even then, there isn't a nice way to tell someone who's already done it that you disapprove, that there's no way to undo it.

[Katie T]

Hurray for your daughter! But I may gently say something about her saying that she couldn't be friends with someone who cuts there son because she may hurt there feelings.

[Arduinna]

If I said anything it would be < good for you!

[Raelynn]

Thanks for the replies. My DD has never seen a circ'ed penis, because all of my friends have intact sons, so I know my DD was trying to figure out how a circ'ed penis would look, and she trusts my friend 'A' enough to ask. I think had my friend said "why yes, he is cut" my daughter would have been taken aback and said "oh" and left it at that.

I am beaming inside at having a budding intactivist, but want to make sure any questions she has are answered. Would it be inappropriate for me to show her an illustration (like this one http://sheikyermami.com/wp-content/u...ircumcised.jpg )? Should I just let her know that I will answer her questions should she have any, and leave it at that?

[thixle]

I don't think it would be inappropriate to show her an illustration. I found this one: http://www.health.com/health/library...p12716,00.html that is more "cartoonish" and of a newborn (more like the ones she's seen before-- they also call it "natural"!!!)

I would also explain that it is not the moms that do it-- that it is a surgery done by doctors. And then answer any and all questions 10 year olds are entering puberty and have lots of "body questions" in general. This one is just slightly more delicate...

... the "don't talk about genitals" line, is bunk, IMO. (just in general) I mean, we are all sitting here typing about genitals. They are body parts. Circ is a serious issue that needs to be talked about openly... how are people going to learn if they don't talk about it?

[glongley]

Originally Posted by Raelynn

http://sheikyermami.com/wp-content/u...ircumcised.jpg

The cross section of the intact penis in this link does not show the double layered structure of the foreskin. It makes it looks like the proverbial "flap of skin."

Gillian

[claddaghmom]

But at 10 I would think it's a prime time to work on ways to share opinions without saying things like "I couldn't be your friend if..." Instead she could have said, "That's good. I feel really passionate about protecting babies." And IMO a 10yo is at a level where speaking honestly yet gently is possible.

[ElliesMomma]

sounds like she has picked up on your enthusiasm against RIC. but it *is* rude, and she *will* offend people if she continues like this.

what about all of the moms who allowed circumcision and now regret it? your daughter is at an age when she doesn't appreciate all of the situations that adults go through to get where they are, and her judgement of others shows this.

definitely show her photos or illustrations of circumcised versus intact penises, and then she won't have to quiz people on whether a baby is or isn't.

and when she sees one that's intact, she can share her opinion; and when she sees one that isn't, she can learn to keep her opinion to herself or at least find the wording to be much more gentle and kind and forgiving in her comments to people who did circumcise.

[Pirogi]

Originally Posted by Raelynn

Thanks for the replies. My DD has never seen a circ'ed penis, because all of my friends have intact sons, so I know my DD was trying to figure out how a circ'ed penis would look, and she trusts my friend 'A' enough to ask. I think had my friend said "why yes, he is cut" my daughter would have been taken aback and said "oh" and left it at that.

This is exactly what I was going to say. Your daughter didn't cross any boundaries here. She was most likely genuinely interested in seeing what a circumcised penis looks like. She asked about his status, and once she saw that it was safe to do so, she confided her true feelings in your friend. There is no indication that she would say anything inappropriate to someone who chose to circumcise their son, as much as she may feel those things. Kids are much wiser than we give them credit for.

The one thing I would talk with her about if she were my daughter is using the appropriate term "circumcised" instead of "cut." This is just one of my pet peeves, but I hate the slang term "cut."

[Arduinna]

Judgement is not a bad thing.

[ssh]

Originally Posted by Pirogi

This is exactly what I was going to say. Your daughter didn't cross any boundaries here. She was most likely genuinely interested in seeing what a circumcised penis looks like. She asked about his status, and once she saw that it was safe to do so, she confided her true feelings in your friend. There is no indication that she would say anything inappropriate to someone who chose to circumcise their son, as much as she may feel those things. Kids are much wiser than we give them credit for.

The one thing I would talk with her about if she were my daughter is using the appropriate term "circumcised" instead of "cut." This is just one of my pet peeves, but I hate the slang term "cut."

I think "cut" is really accurate.

[emmalizz]

It's rude to make comments about another person's genitals- isn't that preached here all the time when defending the intact? IMO, your daughter should be either tactful or silent- she doesn't know under what circumstances an infant was cut.

[philomom]

Originally Posted by ssh

I think "cut" is really accurate.

To me "partially skinned" is even more accurate.

[arianascrunchymama]

I can't believe she's so straight forward! lol I don't think it's a bad thing since she said it to the mother of an intact boy. Things might get out of hand if she said that around pro-circ'ing families!!!

I think it's awesome that you are so open with her that she knows it's a matter of protecting your children. Maybe setting some limits on voicing strong opinions in public like that would be appropriate. Letting her know that everyone feels differently about issues like that, and some people are very sensitive about it.

[Shellie]

I wouldn't want to squelch her spirit at all so I'd probably tell her that some people aren't comfortable discussing baby's privates and that she should tell me, later, if she has any questions. I'm all for encouraging kids to be outspoken but I also think they do need to learn that there are some boundaries.