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post #2 of 7
4/13/10 at 1:17pm
- Altair
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Ehhh, a few thoughts.
I did nightwean at 12 months, and it was a very positive step for us. I am more than happy to parent all night long during the first year, and I feel it is my duty to do so (and a gift to my son). By 12 months I don't feel he *needs* breastmilk at night anymore (well, I do nurse after 5AM), and nightweaning was very, very easy on us both. I also transitioned him from full night co-sleeping to partial co-sleeping (though the crib is still right next to my bed) and not picking him up every time (laying him back down and soothing him) and now he STTN.
So I do agree that as babies age we can take GENTLE steps to help them sleep better.
But here's my BIG issue. I'll try to say this nicely. Lack of sleep in general (and by this I mean no attempt at helping a child sleep more, NOT a co-sleeping or AP situation, but in fact quite the opposite) is often a product of a certain kind of parenting. As a teacher an a city-dweller, I see every day kids who are desperate for sleep and just not given the time and safe space to do so. These are in fact the same kids who are eating Cheetos and 7Up for breakfast at 8 months and watching TV hours and hours a day.
So clearly there will be a big correlation between a lack of time/place to sleep and lifetime obesity and behavioral problems, but it's an extreme lack of sleep and in general a lack of concerned, compassionate adults. Lack of ANY routine and structure and adult interaction can be quite detrimental.
I firmly believe that this research is being grossly misinterpreted. There is not overwhelming groups of AP kids coming into school with obesity and behavioral problems. There are, however, hords of kids coming from homes with borderline neglect who are damn sleepy fit all of these traits.
I did nightwean at 12 months, and it was a very positive step for us. I am more than happy to parent all night long during the first year, and I feel it is my duty to do so (and a gift to my son). By 12 months I don't feel he *needs* breastmilk at night anymore (well, I do nurse after 5AM), and nightweaning was very, very easy on us both. I also transitioned him from full night co-sleeping to partial co-sleeping (though the crib is still right next to my bed) and not picking him up every time (laying him back down and soothing him) and now he STTN.
So I do agree that as babies age we can take GENTLE steps to help them sleep better.
But here's my BIG issue. I'll try to say this nicely. Lack of sleep in general (and by this I mean no attempt at helping a child sleep more, NOT a co-sleeping or AP situation, but in fact quite the opposite) is often a product of a certain kind of parenting. As a teacher an a city-dweller, I see every day kids who are desperate for sleep and just not given the time and safe space to do so. These are in fact the same kids who are eating Cheetos and 7Up for breakfast at 8 months and watching TV hours and hours a day.
So clearly there will be a big correlation between a lack of time/place to sleep and lifetime obesity and behavioral problems, but it's an extreme lack of sleep and in general a lack of concerned, compassionate adults. Lack of ANY routine and structure and adult interaction can be quite detrimental.
I firmly believe that this research is being grossly misinterpreted. There is not overwhelming groups of AP kids coming into school with obesity and behavioral problems. There are, however, hords of kids coming from homes with borderline neglect who are damn sleepy fit all of these traits.
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post #4 of 7
4/13/10 at 1:51pm
- hakeber
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I think it is poorly presented and draws some obvious conclusions and some absurd conclusions and all of it it based on the premise that human beings are meant to sleep alone in their own beds, which is not biologically true for most mammals, including ourselves.
I do agree with the foundings on sleep needs. I do not know if there is a correlation with obesity in particular...everyone lately wants to tell me how every parenting choice is linked to obesity.
But I do think that one's immune system is compromised on too little sleep, and it can create mood swings, and physical pain. The better a child sleeps the more pleasant they are to be around and the fewer illness they suffer from. That's common sense.
But then ANYTHING you can do to help a child sleep soundly and for longer periods of time should be the answer, not getting them to sleep alone at all costs. The goal should be longer, more sound sleeping, not sleeping alone. And THAT is where the study fails for me. Some children sleep more soundly when they have their parents surrounding them. Some children sleep more soundly with a special blanket. Some need space. Some kids sleep more soundly with white noise and others in pure silence. Some need a snack before bed. Some need to abstain from liquids. Some need to have a cup by the bed. Watch your kid and see what works. Everyone sleeps differently and needs different sleep aids to help them through. I think it's one area where I throw up my hands and say "whatever it takes!" Sleeping is too important a need to deny my kid something they need to help him do it.
ETA: Both my kids have slept long five to six hour stretches at birth, and by three months sleep for 7-10 hour stretches at night without nursing, with plenty of naps in between. By the time DS was 17 months he was sleeping 12-14 hours at night, so when ds woke up in the middle of the night it was usually due to illness and liquids are needed when you are ill at any age.
Once he got better, it never took him long to go back to the long stretches.
Oh, I do whole heartedly agree that TV in a bedroom is bad news.
Since their study only followed what parents did with 5 month olds and older, I do not see how they can determine what is good for newborns? Furthermore: What was their "control group"? What is the ideal or normative state? It's just such a strange study. And it's hard to understand what the objective was from this article. Did it want to prove that co-sleeping and not CIO was related to Obesity? Or that night nursing beyond five months is associated with nightmares?
This is the conclusion:
"The most important message is that there's a lot we can do to prevent problems from starting — in sleep," says Taveras. "Parents and pediatricians should keep in mind that children have to develop the capacity to regulate their own sleep early in life and self-soothe themselves during the night."
Why? Why do they need to do this if you can help them do it? Why isn't the goal to teach them to sleep through modelling and giving them tools to self-soothe? Why should babies be left to figure it out on their own? We (most of society) send our kids to school to learn how do EVERYTHING! We allow a learning curve for eating neatly, talking, walking, dressing themselves, using the toilet...hell we let kids be in diapers for 4 or 5 years if they need it, but sleeping? That they just have to learn on their own, dammit!
Essentially the article is saying CIO from infancy will teach your child to sleep, and while that's true to small a degree in some way shape or form, there are MUCH better ways to teach your kid how to sleep than popping them on the sleep bike at the top of Mt Everest and letting go. Now THAT would be a study worth reading. What are proven techniques that help kids get the sleep they need?
The baby in the picture is cute though...convincing.
I do agree with the foundings on sleep needs. I do not know if there is a correlation with obesity in particular...everyone lately wants to tell me how every parenting choice is linked to obesity.
But I do think that one's immune system is compromised on too little sleep, and it can create mood swings, and physical pain. The better a child sleeps the more pleasant they are to be around and the fewer illness they suffer from. That's common sense.But then ANYTHING you can do to help a child sleep soundly and for longer periods of time should be the answer, not getting them to sleep alone at all costs. The goal should be longer, more sound sleeping, not sleeping alone. And THAT is where the study fails for me. Some children sleep more soundly when they have their parents surrounding them. Some children sleep more soundly with a special blanket. Some need space. Some kids sleep more soundly with white noise and others in pure silence. Some need a snack before bed. Some need to abstain from liquids. Some need to have a cup by the bed. Watch your kid and see what works. Everyone sleeps differently and needs different sleep aids to help them through. I think it's one area where I throw up my hands and say "whatever it takes!" Sleeping is too important a need to deny my kid something they need to help him do it.
ETA: Both my kids have slept long five to six hour stretches at birth, and by three months sleep for 7-10 hour stretches at night without nursing, with plenty of naps in between. By the time DS was 17 months he was sleeping 12-14 hours at night, so when ds woke up in the middle of the night it was usually due to illness and liquids are needed when you are ill at any age.
Once he got better, it never took him long to go back to the long stretches.
Oh, I do whole heartedly agree that TV in a bedroom is bad news.
Since their study only followed what parents did with 5 month olds and older, I do not see how they can determine what is good for newborns? Furthermore: What was their "control group"? What is the ideal or normative state? It's just such a strange study. And it's hard to understand what the objective was from this article. Did it want to prove that co-sleeping and not CIO was related to Obesity? Or that night nursing beyond five months is associated with nightmares?
This is the conclusion:
"The most important message is that there's a lot we can do to prevent problems from starting — in sleep," says Taveras. "Parents and pediatricians should keep in mind that children have to develop the capacity to regulate their own sleep early in life and self-soothe themselves during the night."
Why? Why do they need to do this if you can help them do it? Why isn't the goal to teach them to sleep through modelling and giving them tools to self-soothe? Why should babies be left to figure it out on their own? We (most of society) send our kids to school to learn how do EVERYTHING! We allow a learning curve for eating neatly, talking, walking, dressing themselves, using the toilet...hell we let kids be in diapers for 4 or 5 years if they need it, but sleeping? That they just have to learn on their own, dammit!
Essentially the article is saying CIO from infancy will teach your child to sleep, and while that's true to small a degree in some way shape or form, there are MUCH better ways to teach your kid how to sleep than popping them on the sleep bike at the top of Mt Everest and letting go. Now THAT would be a study worth reading. What are proven techniques that help kids get the sleep they need?
The baby in the picture is cute though...convincing.
post #5 of 7
4/13/10 at 2:06pm
- hakeber
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Quote:
|
Ehhh, a few thoughts.
I did nightwean at 12 months, and it was a very positive step for us. I am more than happy to parent all night long during the first year, and I feel it is my duty to do so (and a gift to my son). By 12 months I don't feel he *needs* breastmilk at night anymore (well, I do nurse after 5AM), and nightweaning was very, very easy on us both. I also transitioned him from full night co-sleeping to partial co-sleeping (though the crib is still right next to my bed) and not picking him up every time (laying him back down and soothing him) and now he STTN. So I do agree that as babies age we can take GENTLE steps to help them sleep better. But here's my BIG issue. I'll try to say this nicely. Lack of sleep in general (and by this I mean no attempt at helping a child sleep more, NOT a co-sleeping or AP situation, but in fact quite the opposite) is often a product of a certain kind of parenting. As a teacher an a city-dweller, I see every day kids who are desperate for sleep and just not given the time and safe space to do so. These are in fact the same kids who are eating Cheetos and 7Up for breakfast at 8 months and watching TV hours and hours a day. So clearly there will be a big correlation between a lack of time/place to sleep and lifetime obesity and behavioral problems, but it's an extreme lack of sleep and in general a lack of concerned, compassionate adults. Lack of ANY routine and structure and adult interaction can be quite detrimental. I firmly believe that this research is being grossly misinterpreted. There is not overwhelming groups of AP kids coming into school with obesity and behavioral problems. There are, however, hords of kids coming from homes with borderline neglect who are damn sleepy fit all of these traits. |
post #6 of 7
4/13/10 at 10:05pm
- St. Margaret
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post #7 of 7
4/14/10 at 1:02pm
- Louisep
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Disappointed with Time magazine for very terrible journalism. It's impossible to assess the credibility of the study findings from the info presented. What variables did each study control for? The co-sleeping piece irks me most. Did the study take into account the fact that many cosleeping families ended up that way because their child is a poor sleeper? I'm a terrible sleeper and my parents did not cosleep with me. Re associations - it's totally a judgement call as to what is a good or bad sleep association.
Annoyed.
Annoyed.
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