can we talk about organic dairy farms?

[nj's_mom]

I am vegetarian and reading "The Face on Your Plate"- I'm in the chapter on dairy and it's discussing the horrific treatment of dairy animals, which is why I drink organic milk/eat organic cheese & yogurt. But I'm beginning to wonder- is the treatment of organic dairy cows really different from those on conventiional dairy farms?

[Sayward]

Absolutely not, unfortunately. The term organic has NO bearing on the way the animals are treated. Sorry. =(

Also, *if* you are truly concerned with animal welfare,
1) The veal industry IS the dairy industry - they are one in the same
2) Dairy cows are slaughtered when their milk dries up (very premature in terms of their lifespans)

Just some food for thought.

[russsk]

Nope. As far as milk goes, "organic" doesn't sway me very far. I buy my milk from small, local, family-owned and -operated farms that will let you visit. No, scratch that - That are thrilled if you want to come visit.

[laohaire]

No, the organic label does not in any way address how humanely the animals are treated.

Nor, for that matter, does it address how responsible vegetable and fruit farming are either (both of which have their own types of animal mortality associated with them).

If you want to make humane choices for your food, I recommend buying you food locally. Not all local farms are humane, but by buying locally you can make a fully informed choice. When you're just reading a label at Wild Oats, you don't really know where the food really came from. But when you know your farmer and talk to them, when you drive up their dirt road past their fields, when you get their email newsletter talking about their practices, you can make an informed choice.

IMHO there is almost no possible humane cow milk - the only possibility I can think of is if you have your own cow and breed it and raise the calves (and let them nurse and you just take the extra milk). Then what do you do with them, you know? And of course you have to keep breeding her to get the milk. Not to mention, I don't know if there are any breeds left that produce a reasonable amount of milk (they all produce just incredible amounts, and would die if the excess were not milked off by humans).

For full disclosure, however, I do buy milk. From a local, raw dairy. I don't love it but I feel it's a lot better than conventional (organic or not). They do take the calves away from their mamas and I hate it. The calves are raised to heifers and then processed for meat. Everybody (except the smallest calves, who are given milk in bottles) gets pasture, sunshine and exercise. It still bothers me.

[tinuviel_k]

Some organic dairy farms are outright horrible. I know Horizon has quite the reputation. So beware of buying milk just because it has the organic label.

I get my milk locally from two farms where I can see first hand how the cows are treated. I get it at my local food co-op, not at a big grocery store. It is more expensive, but I consider that a price worth paying to know that my milk is not gotten from a gross factory farm where the animals are abused.
The milk is less processed than most store milk (one farm is raw, both are non-homogenized). Neither farms are "certified" organic, but both use organic practices.

[Koalamom]

I thought that having the organic label meant that farmers had to had some standards with the way they treat the cows.

[karika]

Originally Posted by bluebirdmama1

I thought that having the organic label meant that farmers had to had some standards with the way they treat the cows.

not at all. I was looking for the link to an article I read that opened my eyes. It told about the 'organic' place that was caught skinning calves alive for the veal trade. The same article also mentioned the feed lot type practices by Horizon Organic. Here is one article I found, though it is 2005... http://www.organicconsumers.org/orga...lots060905.cfm

a more recent one
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news0...anic_milk.html

This one mentions the Vermont slaughterhouse
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/1..._n_343934.html

I have become committed to living dairy free. I agree that if we owned a cow and only took the excess after the calf drank, it would be ethical then (as we did when I was a child, we had our own cow and drank milk raw, but funny enough I hated it then). But that is not how it is done. I can no longer enjoy or condone the use of cow's milk the way it is done now. We (me and my daughters) have been dairy free 100% for over 3 months now, except a few times dd1's dad messed up (a pizza, then some organic micro popcorn containing milk). He doesn't care personally (which I do not get... how a person can know these things and still ingest milk I do not get... maybe it is because he is male?), but generally leaves decisions regarding children to me. I would like to get a test to prove we are intolerant of dairy so he will follow 100% and not think I am making a mountain of a molehill and on and on....

[laohaire]

Organic means free of certain chemicals and pesticides as determined by the USDA. (It doesn't even mean free of ALL pesticides and chemicals, just certain ones). Nothing to do with humane practices at all.

[Koalamom]

Oh my goodness! I thought that organic cow farmers were angels. And here in VT I thought that all the local farmers were different than what ya'll are saying but I just talked to DH who works on and off for 2 different local organic farmers in the area and he told me some things I had no idea about that are not cool. He said that both the farmers beat the cows if they are not behaving. The one farmer has a cast iron pipe that he beats the cows over the head if they kick or act up during milking. I am talking really beating them over the head. This is just horrible. I had no idea a farmer just down the road was up to this. No more getting milk from him or the other local farmer.

[nj's_mom]

Thank you all SO much for your replies. I am off milk- looking to wean off of dairy completely (except maybe mozzerella on my pizza at Bertucci's, that is pure heaven). My aunt works in the dairy industry (and is convinced of it's purity) and she's taking me to a local dairy farm that produced non-organic milk for Hood and whatnot. I'm sure there'll be a spin, but I plan on asking some questions (what happened to the calves, female AND male, how long do you let the cows live before they are "spent" and slaughtered, how often does mastitis occur, how many gallons do they produce daily, are they allowed pasture or are they just standing on concrete ALL the time?) They may throw me out but I want the REAL deal, not coroporate spin designed to sell milk and cheese.

I have been vegetarian for 2 months now- after trying for 1 year. One day it just "hit me"- I had just committed to vegetarianism again, only a couple days in, and was making corned beef for DH- and when I went to open the package I just gagged- I realized for I think the first time that this was meat- a hunk of dead flesh- and I could NOT deal with it. I am hoping I have a similar kinesthetic experience w/ dairy. It would make it SO much easier to give up cheese!

[Funny Face]

I know this thread is a little old but had to say I thank you for the info here.

I want to go dairy free, it nags at my conscience and yet I love dairy soooooo much.

Reading this thread has reminded me to try to find alternatives to dairy as much as possible until I can completely cut it out.

I will at least be finding a reputable, local farm I can visit to buy dairy in the mean time.

[*LoveBugMama*]

Originally Posted by bluebirdmama1

I thought that having the organic label meant that farmers had to had some standards with the way they treat the cows.

I think this depends on where you live. I live in Norway, and here organic EGGS means that the hens are cagefree, freerange etc. They HAVE to be to be allowed to call the eggs organic.

When it comes to cows, ALL cows have to be able to be outside, eating grass etc. for atleast 2 months a year. "Organic cows" from May until September. They also have to let the organic cows out for a while every day the rest of the year, but then it`s just for a few hours every day, I think.
Organic cows here have their calf with them for atleast 3 days, too. And the food they get when inside in the winter, is organic.

So in my country, buying orcanic means the animals are treated better. Not good enough, by a long shot, but absolutely better.