need support for tomorrow

[Ldogg]

I have a 3.5 week old, and have been having trouble BFing from the get-go. Basically, nothing went according to plan: she was born 11 days early via emergency c-section, she stayed at the hospital for 8 days due to severe jaundice (she has a blood disorder that causes anemia). She was under phototherapy lights almost the whole hospital stay, and we got to see her only at feeding time. She was born pretty small, 6 lbs 2 oz, and got down to 5 lbs 8 oz at the hospital. Her suck was weak right away, even after my milk came in on day 4, so I started pumping right away and used expressed milk through a nipple shield (w/ no real luck in helping her feed at the breast). With her low weight and continued high bilirubin levels (she wasn't eating enough to excrete the bilirubin on her own, so had to stay under the lights) it was recommended that we feed her with a bottle to get her out of the woods.

And I've been trying to wean off the damn bottle ever since, with NO luck. We've at least overcome total aversion to the breast, and she will occasionally (maybe once a day, if that) comfort nurse, but doesn't take much milk directly from the breast. She gets so manic to eat that even the bottle doesn't give her milk fast enough. When I pause halfway through to burp her (trying to slow down the feeding, she spits up a ton), she goes ballistic.

I've been working with an LC from day 1 through all this, and when I talked to her today she recommended taking tomorrow (and the next day, etc) and cutting back her bottle supply to 50 or 60 mL (we currently give her 80 mL every 2-3 hrs) and offering the breast after, WITHOUT giving her anything else from the bottle until the start of her next feeding. She said to prepare for a long day, as she will buck and scream, etc. I know people here have done days like this (or even more drastic with NO bottles at all), and I'm looking for advice on how to get through the day. I know it will be really difficult, and I'm worried I'll want to give up. I really, really, want to breast feed, but I'm worried about not staying focused b/c her screams will rattle and upset me.

DH will be here tomorrow, which is why I want to do it then (as well as just getting through this asap), so I'll have his help. Any other tips? My LC said to have lots of snacks throughout the house, and be really nice to myself.

Thanks in advance!
Lauren

[PatioGardener]

Has your LC talked about supplementing baby at the breast? Instead of setting up an adversarial relationship with the breast, this rewards baby for nursing at the breast with Mama's pumped milk through a tube. If you can baby to latch on, this method may be MUCH less traumatic for both of you!

Here is a video of the feeding tube: http://www.nbci.ca/index.php?option=...lips&Itemid=13

[Ldogg]

PatioGardener, thanks for the suggestion... we did try feeding through a tube at the breast, but unfortunately it didn't encourage her to pull from me, she just slurped milk through the tube instead. After a week of using it--and it not helping at all--I ended up throwing it across the room in frustration.

I feel so discouraged about this. It feels so insurmountable.

[PatioGardener]

You'll get there, Ldogg. Hang in there! You guys have had a rough start, but there are plenty of Mamas here who have had rough starts and have gone on to breastfeed. It can be done.

I'm really careful before suggesting a nipple shield, and you may have tried it already... it can help to get a baby from the bottle to the breast in some circumstances. This may be one of them!

You can see that I'm trying to suggest anything that may help baby to feel more comfortable at the breast rather than force baby to take it through hunger. I worry about creating anger towards the breast.

Have you tried baby lead latching? I wonder if baby needs to experience the skin-to-skin and latching experience that she missed because of the birth, NICU stay etc., that had to happen to keep her healthy, and as a side effect resulted in nursing issues?

Maybe some MDC mamas have experience with this - or other ways to get baby back to the breast.

[lalemma]

Our challenges weren't anywhere near as severe - 33-weeker with no other problems, came home after two weeks in the NICU mostly on bottles of pumped milk, but I don't think had as much anti-breast feeling going on - but I relate to the dread of having to wean off the bottle.

We did it over the course of a few days. I had a breakdown one evening and was absolutely convinced he was starving and losing weight and not getting any milk at all, blah blah blah... my husband and mom and mother in law all had to gang up on me to calm me down. So for what it's worth, my advice is to agree with your partner and support persons NOW what you want them to do or say when you're freaking out and convinced that everything is a disaster.

Our guy was sometimes kind of angry about not getting the easy flow of milk from the bottle, and of course I'm a first-time mama with no other experience, which probably made it harder than it would have been otherwise. But we got through it. Mostly I camped out in the rocker in the living room for several days, with my son on the Boppy, and just gave him the boob pretty much every second he was awake. If he freaked out too much, my husband would give him a little bit of milk from a bottle. But just enough to calm him down, and then back to the boob. Over the course of a few days, we figured it out.

Good luck! We're here to support you if you need it!

[Ldogg]

Thanks for all your kind words. I am presently using the nipple shield... I actually started fairly early with it, unfortunately, due to bleeding/cracked nipples during my early pumping days. Before the bottle we had latch issues, so that's why my LC suggested it then. And now I use it to make the bridge from bottle to breast... though I have a feeling after a full day of boob access, I'll be pretty sore, so I plan to continue it. If I have to use the shield for months, I'll be happy if it means I get to breast feed.

I too am worried about creating an aversion to the breast, and I really didn't want it to come to this. But after using all the other tricks I (and my LC) could think of, I think it will need to be something this drastic if we have a shot of making this work. I know some other MDC users have gone cold turkey with the breast--i.e., throw out all bottles and just offer breast--but I'm afraid she'll be so manic she won't even be able to see straight. So offering some via the bottle at first seems like a better plan; I just hope I'm not setting myself up for something worse.

lalemma: did you camp out on your rocker day and night? or just during the day?

[PatioGardener]

Originally Posted by Ldogg

but I'm afraid she'll be so manic she won't even be able to see straight. So offering some via the bottle at first seems like a better plan;

I'll be sending you positive vibes all day Good Luck!

[lalemma]

Hmmm... it's lost in the fog of sleep deprivation, but I'm pretty sure we'd try to nurse at night, but if it didn't work out my husband would go get a bottle of breastmilk, because (and maybe this makes me weak) I just couldn't cope at 3am.

Also, I wanted to mention - we still used a nipple shield during that time (he had a hard time latching at first, I have big boobs and flat nipples), but we tackled one thing at a time. Once the bottles were gone, the nipple shields weren't hard to get rid of a week or two later.

[Ldogg]

I appreciate the positive vibes... I'll need them!

lalemma, I feel the exact same way about the nipple shields--I'll be happy to focus on getting rid of those *after* we deal with the bottle situation. And it definitely does NOT make you weak to use the bottle at 3am! That's going to be my plan, too. I'm happy to hear you made it work that way!

Doesn't it seem like someone should design a bottle that makes a baby work really, really hard to get milk for this exact dilemma? We're using slow-flow nipples but even those seem like garden hoses to the face. Sheesh.

[SusanaLaLoca]

I wish I could offer you advice, but my situation is basically yours, gone out of control. DS is 6 months now, and I'm still trying to get him off the bottle.

Best of luck to you both, and I'm sure you can do it! Stay strong, and don't give up like I somewhat did... I just now found the courage to re-try weaning off the bottle to EBF (he currently BF's just a few minutes then demands a 5oz bottle every feeding). Please try to nip it in the bud now, while she's still little!

[Ldogg]

I am happy to report that we've had a major breakthrough! For some reason, I have what seems like an entirely different baby today. I started out the morning with 50 mL at 9am, then promptly put her to breast for the remainder of the feed. She fed for 30 minutes, some swallows (not a ton, not a little). I was so encouraged I offered her my breast again as soon as she started smacking her lips, just plunked her right on. And it worked! I haven't used a bottle the rest of the day thus far!! And she's gotten better at sucking throughout the day's feeds.

I know we're not out of the woods yet... we'll see what nighttime brings. But I'm sticking it out at this point, no more bottle! I think it must have been all those 'good boob' vibes.

SusanaLaLoca, that sounds positively stressful! Kudos to you for sticking it out thus far. How you could at least somewhat give up at some point in the first 6 months? I've been at this only 3.5 weeks, and I've almost given up a dozen times. I'm sure you've tried every trick in the book so far, but here are some of the things that I think have helped us get to this point anyway (hopefully we'll stay here):

- lots of skin-to-skin
- lots of babywearing
- offering nursing once per day until she wasn't averse (and the boob became an okay place, not a traumatic one)
- letting her comfort nurse even though she wasn't feeding at all
- nipple shields
- and finally, getting more drastic by mentally preparing myself for a lot of bucking/fussing/wailing but not giving her a bottle (or at least giving her a LOT less through the bottle)


And again, thank you all for your good vibes and support. This can be such an isolating experience, I honestly don't know how I would cope without the advice and sympathy of others.

[PatioGardener]

I am so glad that it is going well! Even if the night is not so good, you have had a massive breakthrough today! Congratulations!

The good vibes keep coming your way

[CoBabyMaker]

I am so glad that things are looking up! Good job for sticking with it! My nursing relationship with DD looked SO MUCH like yours. I just want to encourage you and say good job! We used the nipple shields for 9 weeks until SHE was ready to be done with them. (I tried pushing it a few times but it just ended up with both of us in tears.) Just take it one day at a time.

Another thing that really helped us A LOT was Cranial Sacral Therapy. It can be very helpful for some C-section babies. Some chiropractors do it but I ended up going to someone specifically for that. It made a world of difference for us.

[Ldogg]

Yeah, it's such a relief to have finally gotten into the swing of BFing!

Craniosacral therapy sounds interesting... I've had it done once before (many years ago) and it was pretty awesome. I'll look into it again.