did dr. retract foreskin?

[lily88]

So, yesterday at ds's 9 month visit, our doctor, who has been until this point very good on all the issues and is (I thought) intact-friendly, gently pulled back ds's foreskin before I could say anything. I was shocked and said "I thought you weren't supposed to retract it" and she replied that she wasn't retracting, which was forceful, but pulling his foreskin back gently. I was troubled by this and emailed her later requesting clarification, and she said again that she had not retracted his foreskin, just pulled it back gently. Is there a difference? everything I can find online describes retraction as pulling back. I should say that ds's penis looks completely normal, no signs of trauma or anything and he did not react in any way when it occurred at the appointment. He has also seemed fine since, except for some teething pain and fussyness.

So, I'm trying to figure out if his foreskin was in fact retracted and if so what I should do about it. I also feel really bad b/c I was the one who brought up the subject at the end of the visit. I wanted to ask the dr. about what exactly retraction was so as to avoid this situation in the future but before I got to the end of my question she had pulled the foreskin back...I am really upset and disappointed b/c I had really liked this doctor up until now.
Any thoughts or advice? Thanks so much.

PS: I really didn't expect to be posting this since I had educated myself about circumcision and this very issue!

[beru]

Originally Posted by lily88

So, yesterday at ds's 9 month visit, our doctor, who has been until this point very good on all the issues and is (I thought) intact-friendly, gently pulled back ds's foreskin before I could say anything. I was shocked and said "I thought you weren't supposed to retract it" and she replied that she wasn't retracting, which was forceful, but pulling his foreskin back gently. I was troubled by this and emailed her later requesting clarification, and she said again that she had not retracted his foreskin, just pulled it back gently. Is there a difference? everything I can find online describes retraction as pulling back. I should say that ds's penis looks completely normal, no signs of trauma or anything and he did not react in any way when it occurred at the appointment. He has also seemed fine since, except for some teething pain and fussyness.

So, I'm trying to figure out if his foreskin was in fact retracted and if so what I should do about it. I also feel really bad b/c I was the one who brought up the subject at the end of the visit. I wanted to ask the dr. about what exactly retraction was so as to avoid this situation in the future but before I got to the end of my question she had pulled the foreskin back...I am really upset and disappointed b/c I had really liked this doctor up until now.
Any thoughts or advice? Thanks so much.

PS: I really didn't expect to be posting this since I had educated myself about circumcision and this very issue!

This is just semantics. Most people here will tell you that that WAS retraction. But your doctor doesn't think so and it sounds like you aren't going to convince her. What I would do is tell her that you don't want her to touch or manipulate his foreskin in any way. Explain that you feel handling the foreskin is at the very least completely unnecessary and at the most potentially harmful. (Which I think is true.) Don't bother with the "retract" word because that will just get you into a loop arguing semantics.

[billikengirl]

What.possible.reason could she have for "not forcefully" retracting him? No matter what she calls it.

[purplemamaturtle5]

Yeah, so I dont get it....why was she touching his penis anyway?? Its not there for her to mess with!! I have been lucky enough that my doctor hasnt said anything at all or touched my son's foreskin...but I am so waiting for it to happen. He already doesnt like the fact that we co-sleep...like thats any of his buisness anyway....so I'm like a hawk when I take my little one to the doctors. The only thing is, i'm not so outspoken, so I hope I have the courage to tell him he's wrong if he is doing something I dont like (i'm sure I will, but I hate confrontations..Especially when trying to tell a doctor they are wrong-some doctors I think, think they are Gods or something.....Its annoying when they think they know it all!!)

[claddaghmom]

Ugh! Babytalk did this same dance and song when they posted incorrect info about retraction.

If you "gently" pull back your fingernail, is that *not* pulling back your fingernail?

[ElliesMomma]

OK, what about when they take the penis between their hands and pull the end toward them slightly by pushing down on the foreskin on both sides, in order to look at the "pee hole"? my ped. has done this twice -- with my infant son, and i remember her also doing it with my infant daughter (albiet minus the penis -- but she spread the legs and the labia and took a quick look). in both cases she was gentle and didn't pull apart very far. would that also be retraction??

[lily88]

Thanks for all the replies. The situation was this: the exam was basically over and I wanted to ask her about this very topic--how to avoid retraction by a health care provider--b/c ds has an undescended testicle and is scheduled to see a ped. urologist tomorrow for evaluation and I wanted to make sure the urologist didn't do anything to his foreskin. We have been with our doctor (a family practitioner) for over 3 years and she has been great. I trust her and feel comfortable with her, which is why I didn't think she would retract his foreskin (until she apparently did). The practice she is part of incorporates alternative health practices and I'm sure they see plenty of intact boys.
Fortunately, it seems like there was no harm done. I think this may be b/c ds seems to have a somewhat loose/long foreskin and has since birth (neither dh nor I have any experience with intact foreskins, so I'm just making conjectures here). Often when I change his diaper the foreskin is in all kinds of places--pushed this way or that. So maybe there was some space for it to move back already.
Anyway, what I've learned from this experience is not to make any assumptions about what a care provider will or won't do. When I see the urologist tomorrow I'm going to state up front that I don't want any pulling back or retraction (whatever they want to call it) to his foreskin at any time, period, including during any surgery that ds might need in the future for his testicle.

[lily88]

Originally Posted by ElliesMomma

OK, what about when they take the penis between their hands and pull the end toward them slightly by pushing down on the foreskin on both sides, in order to look at the "pee hole"? my ped. has done this twice -- with my infant son, and i remember her also doing it with my infant daughter (albiet minus the penis -- but she spread the legs and the labia and took a quick look). in both cases she was gentle and didn't pull apart very far. would that also be retraction??

I guess I'm not sure now. Our doctor did this at ds's newborn visit, but I was watching like a hawk and was satisfied that she was not pulling back his foreskin (like she did the other day

[Tinijocaro]

Rather than asking "what" she did, the important question is "why" she did it. If he went in with absolutely no problems, what would be the need for her to manipulate the foreskin in any way. That would be my issue.

[purplestraws]

Originally Posted by ElliesMomma

OK, what about when they take the penis between their hands and pull the end toward them slightly by pushing down on the foreskin on both sides, in order to look at the "pee hole"? my ped. has done this twice -- with my infant son, and i remember her also doing it with my infant daughter (albiet minus the penis -- but she spread the legs and the labia and took a quick look). in both cases she was gentle and didn't pull apart very far. would that also be retraction??

They're not retracting the foreskin, they're checking the femoral pulse in the groin....hence them doing it to your daughter as well.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by ElliesMomma

OK, what about when they take the penis between their hands and pull the end toward them slightly by pushing down on the foreskin on both sides, in order to look at the "pee hole"? my ped. has done this twice -- with my infant son, and i remember her also doing it with my infant daughter (albiet minus the penis -- but she spread the legs and the labia and took a quick look). in both cases she was gentle and didn't pull apart very far. would that also be retraction??

Originally Posted by purplestraws

They're not retracting the foreskin, they're checking the femoral pulse in the groin....hence them doing it to your daughter as well.

This is interesting. I've never heard of this before. It's definitely never been done at any my children's well baby visits. Actually, all any of my doctor have ever done is undo the diaper, check for diaper rash, and check the boys for undescended testicles. They've never handled the penis at all.

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

Have you seen this thread in the sticky The Definition of Retraction & Why it is BAD what she did was retracting any movement at all of the foreskin back toward the body is retraction, period.

Yes there are variations of degrees from a tiny bit to full retraction but all forms are totally unnecessary and potentially damaging. So the best way to avoid all possibility of damage is to not allow it at all. By the time they realize that they did damage it is to late to stop it so the risk isnt justified especially since there is nothing under there they need to see.

Originally Posted by ElliesMomma

OK, what about when they take the penis between their hands and pull the end toward them slightly by pushing down on the foreskin on both sides, in order to look at the "pee hole"? my ped. has done this twice -- with my infant son, and i remember her also doing it with my infant daughter (albiet minus the penis -- but she spread the legs and the labia and took a quick look). in both cases she was gentle and didn't pull apart very far. would that also be retraction??

If the Dr. put fingers at the very base of the penis and then pushed down causing the foreskin to move back toward the body that is retraction. To check the pulse they touch the bends of the legs at the hip joint not near the pubic bone. For your dd she was looking for labial adhesions.

[Sharlla]

Nope. I didn't know about that no retraction thing with DS1 but the Dr never tried. With DS2 I just mentioned that we don't do that just in case she tried.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by MCatLvrMom2A&X

To check the pulse they touch the bends of the legs at the hip joint not near the pubic bone. For your dd she was looking for labial adhesions.

Oh...yeah - I think they've done that. I thought they were just checking the motion of the hip joints, though.

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

They do that as well by flexing the legs back and forth at the hips.

[Storm Bride]

Right. That's what they've done. I'm not sure if they've done the other thing or not.

All these posts about doctors fiddling around with the penises of little boys kind of creep me out, to be honest.

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

You are not alone it is something that I have had to deal with as well. Thankfully ds is old enough now that I am going to decline all exams unless ds complains of an issue.

I dont know what I would have done if I had continued WBC after I stopped vaxing because every since time I have taken ds in for a yearly checkup and a time or 2 when he was sick I have had to tell the ped. to keep his hands off. It sucks to have to be so on guard all the time.

[elliottsmommy]

Our Ped does this, too, and I am absolutely confused about it. He does it very quickly, just for a mere second, and doesn't pull back far at all. My son doesn't even flinch, and there is never any sign of trauma. The visits are always so hectic and the Ped is talking about other things while he does the exam, so I've never been able to interject to say, "What's the point of that?" I'll have to find a way to pop it in there, though, because I find it so peculiar! Wish I knew what he was checking for....

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

There is no point to it. What they are looking for usually is to check that the meatus, urine hole, is in the right place. If it wasnt then it would be obvious by now so checking over and over is not needed and it can cause issues. Like I mentioned up thread the risk is to high that they might cause damage when they have nothing to see there anyway.

Instead of asking the Dr what the point it tell him to stop messing with your ds's foreskin since there is no point in it.

Eventually this Dr. may start checking to see how far it will retract and when it dosnt go back by X age he may very well start the "he dosnt retract something is wrong, he needs circ" BS He will make you worry for no good reason when he should never even be looking for retraction since it is not important.

[Voodoo Lady]

This doctor is either an idiot or is lying to you to try to trick you.

"retract" means to "pull/drag back." It's from the Latin verb "retraho, retrahere" - "to pull/drag back." (I teach Latin)

it has NOTHING to do with whether it's gentle or forceful.

Voodoo Lady.

Originally Posted by lily88

So, yesterday at ds's 9 month visit, our doctor, who has been until this point very good on all the issues and is (I thought) intact-friendly, gently pulled back ds's foreskin before I could say anything. I was shocked and said "I thought you weren't supposed to retract it" and she replied that she wasn't retracting, which was forceful, but pulling his foreskin back gently. I was troubled by this and emailed her later requesting clarification, and she said again that she had not retracted his foreskin, just pulled it back gently. Is there a difference? everything I can find online describes retraction as pulling back. I should say that ds's penis looks completely normal, no signs of trauma or anything and he did not react in any way when it occurred at the appointment. He has also seemed fine since, except for some teething pain and fussyness.

So, I'm trying to figure out if his foreskin was in fact retracted and if so what I should do about it. I also feel really bad b/c I was the one who brought up the subject at the end of the visit. I wanted to ask the dr. about what exactly retraction was so as to avoid this situation in the future but before I got to the end of my question she had pulled the foreskin back...I am really upset and disappointed b/c I had really liked this doctor up until now.
Any thoughts or advice? Thanks so much.

PS: I really didn't expect to be posting this since I had educated myself about circumcision and this very issue!