My nearly 2 year old and taking FOREVER to fall asleep. We need help!

[mrsfrenchy]

Ok, I need some suggestions from you guys because, I'm really feeling like I'm at the end of my rope. I feel like we've done everything and that our options are either deal with it (which would just suck) or CIO (which I don't want to do, not only because I disagree with the practice, but because my DD already has seperation issues).

So here's the story. DD1 is 21 months old. We also have a 2.5 month old DD. DD1 was already a momma's girl and a bit clingy, so the transition has been rough on her, but its getting better.

For the most part of DD1s life, she has refused to let DH put her to bed. Now she'll let him do night wakings fine and she'll protest him doing bedtime, but its not too traumatic (however, if he's the one to handle bedtime, she tends to sleep very lightly). DD is one a full sized matress & box spring in her room, so it's possible for us to sleep with her. But because of her sleeping style, I really prefer not to cosleep. (she's very hands-on and physcial when sleeping--I don't rest well when sleeping with her at all) However, we do cosleep occasionally. Also, I'm a student and do a lot of homeowrk at nightime so it would be hard for me to go to bed at the same time as her.

The new baby won't take a bottle at all and doesn't seem to care for DH despite his effort. DD1 is still nursing at naptime and bedtime, but just for 5 minutes or so.

Our problem right now is that DD is taking forever to fall asleep at night. Many nights its at least an hour if not 2 or 3 before she falls asleep. Some nights she sleeps all the way through after she finally falls asleep. Other nights she wakes but falls back asleep fairly quicky after we come lay down with her (20-30minutes maybe). But then some nights, like last night, she wakes up and then is up for another 2 or 3 hours, just tossing and turning. Last night it took over 2 hours to get her to sleep at bedtime and then she was up from 1:30 until at least 4:30, maybe later.

I don't know what to do. I have to take both kids at bedtime (because the younger one won't let DH do a lot with her), so we normally all lay down in DD1s bed and I nurse DD1 first and then DD2. But unless DD2 solidly falls asleep, I can't do things like rock DD1 in the rocking chair (in a different room), etc. to help her fall asleep. So we end up just laying there waiting for her to fall asleep with me unable to make a large effort to help her fall asleep. Last night was bad because DD2 is going through a growth spurt and nursed for over an hour, making it pretty much impossible for me to even snuggle DD1. She kept asking to be rocked but I couldn't (I asked her if she wanted Daddy to rock her and she said no).

This is rambling (I'm going on 2 or 3 hours of sleep right now) and I probably left out a lot of important details. I just know that something needs to change and I don't know where to start. So just throw out all your ideas and input and I'll add information as needed.

Thanks.

[pianojazzgirl]

So are you saying that it takes DD1 up to 3 hrs to go to sleep at bedtime, and she also wakes up in the night and takes up to 3 hrs to go back to sleep at that point?

When she wakes in the night is she in any discomfort? Does she have any allergies? Is it possible she might have some food sensitivities that might be causing her low-level discomfort in the night?

Does she get a lot of physical activity during the day?

Does she have a regular bedtime routine? What is it?

Does she have dessert on a regular basis? If so, what about cutting out sugar in the late afternoon/evening.

Has your dh tried wearing DD2 in a baby carrier and going for a walk while you put DD1 to bed? (That was the only way either of my kids would tolerate dh at that age!).

What about dh co-sleeping with DD1 and you sleeping with DD2 in the other room? Could he become the nighttime parent for DD1 (I know she prefers you, but after a period of adjustment do you think she would be ok with dh)?

Other ideas to help her stay asleep: put a white noise machine (ex. air purifier) in her room. Make sure all light is blocked out by putting black-out curtains on the window. Consider the temperature - make sure she isn't getting too cold or too hot in the middle of the night. Make sure she isn't getting hungry in the middle of the night (does she need a little snack right before bed?).

EDITED to add hugs! I know how desperately hard it can be when you're not getting enough sleep. And I also know that it can be a tough adjustment for the older dc when a new sibling comes along. Good luck mama! It will get better I promise!

[HappyMomma2008]

Just wondering what DD1 nap situation is these days?

I have one daughter who is 2 years 2 months and we struggle with bedtime taking forever too. I've come to see that if she naps during the day at all (she gave up morning naps before she turned 1 year), then bedtime is later and a struggle. I haven't been able to take her afternoon nap away entirely because she still really needs it sometimes. However, on the days that she naps I just know to not even try to put her to bed until later. My husband (who has never been able to put her to sleep even once) will try to help out on these nights by playing with her during that time that she might usually be asleep just so I'm not crawling out of my skin when the time comes to try for bedtime.

Not sure if that helps or not.

Regardless, hugs!

[StrawberryFields]

Both my ds and my dd reached that point in their life too. Where it was suddenly taking hours to go to sleep and we were very frustrated. Both times it turned out they were ready to start going to sleep on their own. With dd I found out kind of on accident, dh was out of town and I had to handle bedtime by myself and just put dd down, went to ds, and dd rolled over and went to sleep. She was 1.5.

With ds he was a little bit older and it was a very hands on process with a lot of encouragement. First, we went to the store and bought poster board and stickers. We came home and made a reward chart with a calendar on it. I printed out pictures and we pasted them to the board and he colored it and we hung it up. We also went to Bath and Body Works and he picked out a flavor of "Monster Spray" (he chose apple). We came home, took off the label and made a new label with our printer, crayons and tape. We bought prizes together to put in his prize box and talked about how after X amount of stickers he got to pick a prize from the box.

So we started the new bedtime routine: PJs, brush teeth, read book, say prayers, spray monster spray, kiss goodnight. We left the door open a large enough crack and on the first night went in there every few minutes with a pep talk. He was very nervous and wanted to back out. We kept up the encouragement. It worked. It took a few nights for him to really feel comfortable but we worked and worked and it turned out perfect. He went from a scared boy who would no longer sleep in his own bed, who took 2+ hours to get to sleep every night, to following the routine above, lights out, falls asleep on his own. I never would have imagined that it was going to work out. It was an amazing accomplishment on his part and it lifted a huge weight off our shoulders at night. The stress of bedtime was really taking a toll on me and dh and causing fights and a lot of anger and resentment.

[mrsfrenchy]

Thanks for asking all these questions. Last night's lack of sleep kept me from writing a complete post.

Originally Posted by pianojazzgirl

So are you saying that it takes DD1 up to 3 hrs to go to sleep at bedtime, and she also wakes up in the night and takes up to 3 hrs to go back to sleep at that point?

last night yes. That's the second night like that in a week and the third in a month. Most times, its just the initial bedtime that takes forever. Also, some nights go fairly well (though the bad nights seem to outweigh the good ones). Long bedtimes and long nightwaking don't happen every night. But the long bedtimes are becoming more and more frequent (I'd say 3-4 nights/week) and the long nightwakings are a fairly new thing (they had happened before, but never this close together.

When she wakes in the night is she in any discomfort? Does she have any allergies? Is it possible she might have some food sensitivities that might be causing her low-level discomfort in the night?

No allergies or food sensitivies that we know of. She doesn't seem to be in discomfort at all. She can tell me if she has boo-boos or if (for instance) her diaper has leaked a bit and is bothering her, and she's not crying/whimpering like she's hurt so I don't think she's having discomfort.

Does she get a lot of physical activity during the day?
We try our best. Yesterday, specifically, we had played at the park for quite a while. She was in the buggy at the grocery store after that and then took a long nap, but played outside again and in the bath before bed.

Does she have a regular bedtime routine? What is it?
Eh, to some extent. We had one pre-baby#2 and are trying to get back in the habit of it. It consisits of showering with me, putting on diaper & PJs and then reading books with DH and I while I nurse DD2. In an effort to make this more consistent, I've set alarms on my phone to remind me to start dinner at an early enough time to ensure a good bedtime and another alarm to remind me that its time to start getting ready for bed.

Does she have dessert on a regular basis? If so, what about cutting out sugar in the late afternoon/evening.
No she doesn't. Weren't not the healtiest eaters, but we don't really keep junk food in the house. The most 'junk' she has is PB crackers (which are probably pretty processed, but not like ice cream or something) and she rarely eats those at dinner or afterwards.

Has your dh tried wearing DD2 in a baby carrier and going for a walk while you put DD1 to bed? (That was the only way either of my kids would tolerate dh at that age!).
This is an idea we could work on. I don't think it would work until DD2s growth spurt passes (hopefully soon!) The only carrier i've been able to get DD2 really comfortable in is the pouch sling (which won't fit DH) but maybe we could give the moby another try.

What about dh co-sleeping with DD1 and you sleeping with DD2 in the other room? Could he become the nighttime parent for DD1 (I know she prefers you, but after a period of adjustment do you think she would be ok with dh)?

This is possible and would probably work, but I'm reluctant to implement it simply because I feel like DD1 is really craving attention from me right now. I think she'd be ok with DH, but at the same time, would feel like I'm just passing her off to someone else. ...maybe I'm reading to much into her emotional state, but I do sense that she feels pushed aside by the new baby.

Other ideas to help her stay asleep: put a white noise machine (ex. air purifier) in her room. Make sure all light is blocked out by putting black-out curtains on the window. Consider the temperature - make sure she isn't getting too cold or too hot in the middle of the night. Make sure she isn't getting hungry in the middle of the night (does she need a little snack right before bed?).
We have white noise and run it every night and every nap time. Black out drapes are something I should look into. The sun staying up later doesn't seem to have brought about the change (our falling asleep issues happened some--though less frequently--before the time change) I think the temperature is ok and I try to pick out her PJs accordingly. What would you recommend for a bedtime snack? We eat dinner just before starting bath, etc. so I'm not sure its necessary but its an idea.

[mrsfrenchy]

Originally Posted by HappyMomma2008

Just wondering what DD1 nap situation is these days?

I have one daughter who is 2 years 2 months and we struggle with bedtime taking forever too. I've come to see that if she naps during the day at all (she gave up morning naps before she turned 1 year), then bedtime is later and a struggle. I haven't been able to take her afternoon nap away entirely because she still really needs it sometimes. However, on the days that she naps I just know to not even try to put her to bed until later. My husband (who has never been able to put her to sleep even once) will try to help out on these nights by playing with her during that time that she might usually be asleep just so I'm not crawling out of my skin when the time comes to try for bedtime.

Not sure if that helps or not.

Regardless, hugs!

Unfortunately, naps vary. She is at daycare 3x a week since I'm a student (I have online classes this semester and use that time to get all my work done). She naps there for about an hour each day. Many days she falls asleep fairly quickly (they wrap her in a blanket and rock her). Every once in a while she has a bad day and takes 30 or 45+ minutes to fall asleep.

At home she often takes 2 or 3 hour naps and often doesn't wake up until 4:30 or 5. I consider this kind of late since we shoot for 7:30ish for bedtime. I would think that not being tired is a problem, but most of these nights she's crying at bedtime, asking to nurse and go to sleep. (Last night this happened, but I was in the middle of nursing the baby so she had to wait )

Originally Posted by StrawberryFields

Both my ds and my dd reached that point in their life too. Where it was suddenly taking hours to go to sleep and we were very frustrated. Both times it turned out they were ready to start going to sleep on their own. With dd I found out kind of on accident, dh was out of town and I had to handle bedtime by myself and just put dd down, went to ds, and dd rolled over and went to sleep. She was 1.5.

With ds he was a little bit older and it was a very hands on process with a lot of encouragement. First, we went to the store and bought poster board and stickers. We came home and made a reward chart with a calendar on it. I printed out pictures and we pasted them to the board and he colored it and we hung it up. We also went to Bath and Body Works and he picked out a flavor of "Monster Spray" (he chose apple). We came home, took off the label and made a new label with our printer, crayons and tape. We bought prizes together to put in his prize box and talked about how after X amount of stickers he got to pick a prize from the box.

So we started the new bedtime routine: PJs, brush teeth, read book, say prayers, spray monster spray, kiss goodnight. We left the door open a large enough crack and on the first night went in there every few minutes with a pep talk. He was very nervous and wanted to back out. We kept up the encouragement. It worked. It took a few nights for him to really feel comfortable but we worked and worked and it turned out perfect. He went from a scared boy who would no longer sleep in his own bed, who took 2+ hours to get to sleep every night, to following the routine above, lights out, falls asleep on his own. I never would have imagined that it was going to work out. It was an amazing accomplishment on his part and it lifted a huge weight off our shoulders at night. The stress of bedtime was really taking a toll on me and dh and causing fights and a lot of anger and resentment.

I wish this was the answer. She flips out if I leave her room during bedtime. Even if I explain that I'm just going to get the baby from daddy (or get a blanket or whatever) and that I'm coming right back to lay down with her and go to sleep, she starts crying "mommy, lay down! lay down!"

I really really doubt that going to bed herself is the solution here, but oh how I wish it were!

[StrawberryFields]

Originally Posted by mrsfrenchy

I wish this was the answer. She flips out if I leave her room during bedtime. Even if I explain that I'm just going to get the baby from daddy (or get a blanket or whatever) and that I'm coming right back to lay down with her and go to sleep, she starts crying "mommy, lay down! lay down!"

I really really doubt that going to bed herself is the solution here, but oh how I wish it were!

Well, if it helps at all my ds was the same way. Flipping out, wanting us to lay down with him, etc. etc. I had ZERO faith that it was going to work. I just did not think he was ready. But dh was on the verge of losing his mind so we had to do something. We stuck with it, gave him a ton of encouragement, and it worked after all. It was pretty intense in the beginning, going in there over and over and telling him how good he was doing and talking about the prizes and stickers. Calling out to him from the living room so he knew we were close by, etc. After a couple days he had it down pat and it was definitely the best thing we have ever done!

Good luck finding something that works for you! I know how frustrating those long bedtimes can be.

[mrsfrenchy]

Originally Posted by StrawberryFields

Well, if it helps at all my ds was the same way. Flipping out, wanting us to lay down with him, etc. etc. I had ZERO faith that it was going to work. I just did not think he was ready. But dh was on the verge of losing his mind so we had to do something. We stuck with it, gave him a ton of encouragement, and it worked after all. It was pretty intense in the beginning, going in there over and over and telling him how good he was doing and talking about the prizes and stickers. Calling out to him from the living room so he knew we were close by, etc. After a couple days he had it down pat and it was definitely the best thing we have ever done!

Good luck finding something that works for you! I know how frustrating those long bedtimes can be.

How old was your DS?

[StrawberryFields]

My ds was 3, so a little older than your dd. But on the plus side my dd was about the same age (just a tad younger) as yours when we went through the transition. Just a thought, since with both my dd at 1.5 and ds at 3, the long drawn out 2-3 hour bedtimes and begging us to lay with them while they rolled around, poked their eyeballs, drank their waters, nursed, rocked, woke up for hours at night... all that ended when we had them fall asleep on their own.

I forgot another thing that worked with my dd at that age was during tuck in I would tell her that she had to get to sleep so that we could (go to the zoo, see Grandma, make cookies, color a picture together, whatever) the next day. Being younger when we first started I would nurse and rock her for a bit in the living room, then put her in bed and do the tuck in (in our bed). It was when dh was out of town I discovered I could drop the rocking completely and put her right in her crib in her room instead.

[Pepper44]

We had the same problem with our DD when she was around 2. She would take hours to go to sleep and then keep waking up, it was TERRIBLE.

I cut out naps. It sucked for a couple of weeks, she was miserable in the late afternoon but she went right to sleep at night and slept well. Then she sort of adjusted herself and she was happy going to bed at about 7 every night. She's 3.5 now and I *never* let her nap because otherwise the cycle of misery starts all over!

[Thalia]

We just went through a very similar situation, except our second child is still on the way. The details are in this thread, if you want to see them.

DD is 2.5 years and we ended up dropping her naps as a solution after a number of people here and IRL reported that their kiddos stopped napping at 2. I thought it was too early, but it was the only thing that stopped the drawn out 2-3 hour bedtime struggles. Now she goes to bed between 6 PM and 7:30 PM, depending on whether we do our whole bedtime routine or if she falls asleep before we can do it. She's getting 12 hours of sleep most days. We do an hour of quiet time around the time she would normally be napping.

After we did this, my MIL reported that my DH dropped HIS nap at two, and his sister (DD's aunt) dropped hers at 18 months! Wish I'd known that earlier!

If you don't decide to drop her nap, I would definitely move it much much earlier in the day if you possibly can. For a long time, moving DD's naps back to 11:30 AM or 12:00 PM kept the bedtimes normal. She could usually go down for a nap about 4-5 hours after she first woke in the morning.

[mrsfrenchy]

Originally Posted by Pepper44

We had the same problem with our DD when she was around 2. She would take hours to go to sleep and then keep waking up, it was TERRIBLE.

I cut out naps. It sucked for a couple of weeks, she was miserable in the late afternoon but she went right to sleep at night and slept well. Then she sort of adjusted herself and she was happy going to bed at about 7 every night. She's 3.5 now and I *never* let her nap because otherwise the cycle of misery starts all over!

Originally Posted by Thalia

We just went through a very similar situation, except our second child is still on the way. The details are in this thread, if you want to see them.

DD is 2.5 years and we ended up dropping her naps as a solution after a number of people here and IRL reported that their kiddos stopped napping at 2. I thought it was too early, but it was the only thing that stopped the drawn out 2-3 hour bedtime struggles. Now she goes to bed between 6 PM and 7:30 PM, depending on whether we do our whole bedtime routine or if she falls asleep before we can do it. She's getting 12 hours of sleep most days. We do an hour of quiet time around the time she would normally be napping.

After we did this, my MIL reported that my DH dropped HIS nap at two, and his sister (DD's aunt) dropped hers at 18 months! Wish I'd known that earlier!

If you don't decide to drop her nap, I would definitely move it much much earlier in the day if you possibly can. For a long time, moving DD's naps back to 11:30 AM or 12:00 PM kept the bedtimes normal. She could usually go down for a nap about 4-5 hours after she first woke in the morning.

DH and I are really contemplating the 'cut out naps' solution. We're trying to decide though if we should start it now or wait until the semester is over and she's not in daycare for the summer. We only have 2 weeks left of daycare (she goes MWF). They have to at least try to give her a nap there, just because of their liscensing or something. She doesn't sleep as long at daycare as she does at home though--normally right around an hour.

So....we could wait the 2 weeks and cut out naps after she's home for the summer. Or we could start now, but we'd have the naps at daycare messing with our schedule a bit. What do you guys think?

I'm also wondering, she'll obviously be ready for bed at least a little bit earlier than she is now--so what do you do when you go to other people's houses, etc? We go over to my ILs a lot and have dinner and hang out. Especially once they open their pool for the summer, we'll be over there quite a bit. I guess we'll just have to start going over earlier and leaving earlier. Holidays would be an issue though because we do everything in the evenings. Any input there?

[pianojazzgirl]

Put her to bed wherever you are and then transfer her to the car and drive her home when you're ready to leave. Fingers crossed she stays asleep (though my kids never would.... but they would stay dozy and conk right out again when they were back in their own beds).

[To-Fu]

At home she often takes 2 or 3 hour naps and often doesn't wake up until 4:30 or 5. I consider this kind of late since we shoot for 7:30ish for bedtime. I would think that not being tired is a problem, but most of these nights she's crying at bedtime, asking to nurse and go to sleep.

My 27mo son was doing this for a while at that age and we really had to put a stop to it. We found that 2-3 hours was not enough awake time between his nap and bedtime. I make sure he sleeps no longer than two hours now, and that he's awake by 2-2:30p so he can have a good five hours of awake time before we start the bedtime routine at 7:30. (And we've found that the routine and its timing is really important.)

I think the above would be really one of the most important changes to try right away.

[mrsfrenchy]

We'll officially be attempting no naps soon, but I wanted to say that just by chance she has missed her nap twice since I posted this (though she did fall asleep for a short car ride on those afternoons, for 15 minutes or so). She's very cranky when we get her out of the car (and encourage her to wake up instead of putting her in bed like we normally would), but she perks up after eating and then takes less than 15 or 20 minutes to put to sleep.

Hopefully the progress continues.
Pianojazzgirl, I'll be trying your suggestion (of putting her to bed where we are) when we go over to my ILs for a cook out tomorrow night

Wish me luck.

[pianojazzgirl]

Good luck!

[MommyDOK]

SOme people just take longer to fall to sleep. It is very TOUGH! My dh takes 30-45 minutes to fall to sleep, no matter how tired he is. Our oldest dd takes 45-60 minutes to fall to sleep. She is 7 now and it has been this way since I weaned her at 20 months (it hurt and I was in my second trimester).

I've read every book and tried every trick. It just takes longer for her to unwind. I get frustrated and we have bribed her to fall to sleep by herself, gotten mad at her etc. I can't think of anything that has worked other than being patient.

AT times I've had to do computer work for my volunteer work and I've told her, I"ll lay next to you, but I have to do work on the computer. SHe puts up w/ it and at least I don't feel like I'm productive during that time, so maybe you could get a little booklight and study while she falls to sleep.

We did consult w/ a psychologist who is ap focused and he told us to continue meeting her nighttime needs bc the transition to sleep is so difficult.