DS sometimes seems so demanding...

[lovesea]

...I don't understand why I seem to give so much and he just seems to demand more. I feel like it's never enough. He's nearly 4. I stopped work when he was born and have always been at home with him. Ds and I have a good relationship and never argue in front of him. He has a really stable homelife and I am careful to make things pretty predictable. I also plan activities and talk to him a lot.

Today for example, while dd (16 months) was napping we did some craft things together, then we all went to the park, then we made strwberry milk together. Yet whenever I leave the room, within a couple of minutes he's shouting 'why have you left me on my own, I don't want to be on my own', even when dd is in the room with him. He constantly demands things and often in a whiny voice that drives me crazy cos it's for things that I would willingly give him, like a drink of water. He's on the verge of tears asking for water, like I wouldn't give it to him.

Then bedtimes! Well I know they're a whole issue on their own but again I'll give today as an example, we did our routine as usual, I put him in bed, kiss him goodnight and take dd to breastfeed and put to bed in another room. He starts crying cos his teddy has fallen out of bed, I get go put it back, then he cries cos the door's closed, then cos he nose needs cleaning, then something else. After a while I find it so hard to stay patient and not resent giving him the attention he demands especially when it often seems to be to dd's detriment.

Is this normal behaviour? What is going on here?

[lovesea]

After a lovely afternoon in the park with friends, he cried all the way home and then for another half an hour because he didn't want to go home. I got by telling myself there'd be some sage advice waiting for me on mdc. But nothing! Any comments welcome, even really obvious ones like this is totally normal. I just sometimes wonder if I'm doing anything wrong. Most of my friends with kids work and have had them with childminders etc from a young age and yet they seem so much more easy going. With ds it seems the more you give the more he wants. He just can't be happy.

[musikat]

I'm sorry you didn't get any responses yet.

I don't have any real input or advice. I have an older child (8) who is a bit like that -- especially the bedtime. No matter how much I "give" he will ask for more. It drives me crazy.

He isn't whiny, but he has always been my one child that asks more of me. If I let him, he would still have me do things for him that his younger brothers willingly do for themselves.

In my son's case, he has recently been diagnosed with ADHD, so I think some of his behavior is related to that (particularly the bedtime since he has a hard time getting his brain to shut off and calm down for sleep). Not saying that is what is going on with your son, though.

I hope you get some more useful BTDT advice. I just felt bad for you. I know how it is to anticipate getting some helpful advice.

[JAL]

Hi, sorry I don't have any advice either. My 4 yr old dd is similar. She has always been this way. She just can't seem to really relax and just enjoy life. It is hard to explain and I really didn't realize the difference in her until I had my ds, he is just so happy about life, just seems to be able to enjoy what is happening at the moment.
For example I took dd out to ice cream for a special treat after the last day of skiing. So today she asked to get ice cream again and I said no, we will another time, it is a special treat etc... she throws a total fit! And she will do this multiple times. Same with night time book reading, I read her three books every night, the other night I went ahead and read four and now, every night since she is throwing a fit because I will not read her four books!!
It seems that the more I stick with a very predictable routine the better it goes but I feel sad sometimes because I would like to do something different and fun but feel I will have to "pay for it" for a week or so afterwards!
She also does not like to be left alone, i could go on....

I have found that the book Raising Your Spirited Child by Mary Sheedy Kurcinka is very helpful, in fact I really have liked all of her books and found inspiration and help in them all.

Ok, so I talking about all this, I think I will go and read some now! hehe

[staceychev]

I think it might be in the range of normal, and I wouldn't blame the fact that you've been home with him. I've been working since DD was 14 months, and she's like that, too. I just think some kids are like this.

I also wonder if he's been worse since his sister was born. DD has definitely been needier since our second daughter was born a month ago.

Second the suggestion for Raising Your Spirited Child. Great, great book that helped me understand DD better.

[velochic]

Originally Posted by lovesea

then we made strwberry milk together

A lot of people don't think about this, but the root of the problem could very well be his diet. Strawberry milk is chock full of artificial colors and flavors... these are common triggers for setting kids off. If he's consuming food like this on a daily basis, it could very well be all or part of the problem.

There are many people who have cut out preservatives, artificial anything, processed foods and have discovered that their previously unhappy and demanding children become happy, helpful kids. Seriously. Even children diagnosed ADHD can be even-keeled kids without medication if they are on an all-natural diet. Google "Feingold Diet" and you'll get a ton of information about it.

When we were living in Germany, (dd was toddler stage), I would let her have these Pez candies once in a while. She'd wake up with night terrors, be restless all day, and get horrible eczema on her legs. We really buckled down back then to make sure her diet is all-natural and we have not had any problems since then. Literally, she has never had a temper tantrum (well, she's 8 now, but she didn't ever go through the tantruming toddler stage). She will still, for example, get to eat cake at a birthday party, but she knows the results of it. She doesn't sleep well, and ends up with scratches on her legs from the itching.

Anyway, the strawberry milk jumped out at me and if you're letting that kind of stuff in his diet, his diet itself could be the problem.

Good luck!

[ZanZansMommy]

Originally Posted by staceychev

I think it might be in the range of normal, and I wouldn't blame the fact that you've been home with him. I've been working since DD was 14 months, and she's like that, too. I just think some kids are like this.

I also wonder if he's been worse since his sister was born. DD has definitely been needier since our second daughter was born a month ago.

Second the suggestion for Raising Your Spirited Child. Great, great book that helped me understand DD better.

I have to completely agree with this. Everything you described with your DS is what I experience with my DS (4.5). Reading the book, "raising your Spirited Child," was beyond helpful. My DS is very needy & spirited.

Also, I have to agree with velochic that food additives &. allergies can play into this. Good Luck!

[HappilyEvrAfter]

I Raising the Spirited Child (RTSC) too.

I've got a 5.5 yo who is always left wanting more regardless what IT is.

FWIW, we cut out much dairy and it didn't make a difference, but it certainly wouldn't hurt to try it for yours.

Some kids are just naturally this way....RTSC gives some good tips and will shed some light on these kinds of kids.
I was nodding my head, "Yes. YES. YEEEES! That's MY kid!!" the whole time reading it.

It's helped to teach the kiddo some boundries and patience. Though we still have persistance issues I try to put a positive spin on it and try to remember that I'm grateful that at least he's got ingrained determination! Lol.

[staceychev]

Oh yes. And though we didn't cut out sugar entirely, we did cut down drastically and it's made a huge difference in her attitude. I can tell what kind of day we're going to have based on how much sugar she eats. (Making sure she has regular snacks that contain protein/fat has been helpful, too.)

[Kivgaen]

Originally Posted by lovesea

...I don't understand why I seem to give so much and he just seems to demand more. I feel like it's never enough. He's nearly 4. I stopped work when he was born and have always been at home with him. Ds and I have a good relationship and never argue in front of him. He has a really stable homelife and I am careful to make things pretty predictable. I also plan activities and talk to him a lot.

How much do you "play" with him? I'm not talking about crafts, activities, or other "organized" kind of stuff... I mean just basic, raw, no rules, active, run around like chickens with our heads cut off, fun, giggly play? Something really silly, that makes him just laugh and giggle his guts out until he can't take it anymore?

even when dd is in the room with him. He constantly demands things and often in a whiny voice that drives me crazy cos it's for things that I would willingly give him, like a drink of water. He's on the verge of tears asking for water, like I wouldn't give it to him.

What we did with my daughter when she was in that phase was we struggled NOT to give in to her "demands" and "whines". If she started demanding, or whining, I would say out-right no, absolutely you cannot have a glass of water when you ask me THAT way. Try again in a nice voice.

The worst part about that was catching myself when I would just blindly give in without a second thought. In the beginning, there were several occasions when I DID give in, but then I realized what I had done, and I took it back and said in my playful voice "Wait a second... You can't have that! You forgot to use your nice voice"...

Is this normal behaviour? What is going on here?

Yes, normal. What's going on here is he's figured out what works to get what he wants.

You have to change before he will change. Stop giving in when he behaves this way. Show him the right way to ask, or the right thing to do. At bedtime, I stopped giving in to requests after I left the room. If it wasn't "I have to go to the bathroom", then it wasn't important and could wait until morning.

[Hokulele]

My DD1 (4, almost 5yo) is much the same way. I have always felt she takes much more energy than my toddler.

[rabbitmum]

I think it's a four-year-old thing and completely normal! From my experience four is when they really are in the process of learning to empathise with other people's needs, and they need others (i.e. their parents) to show them where their boundaries are (as in "Now I have given you this red cup, you will have to use that. I understand that you want a green cup, but I do not want to run around and fetch different cups all day - the red one is perfectly fine." Ok, not a horribly good example, but I hope you see what I mean.) They often demand very specific things and complain a lot!

Four years is a much more challenging age than two or three, in my opinion. There is a lot of social learning going on.

About disliking being in a room by himself, I have had that with two of my kids. It did pass. I don't know why they are more anxious all of a sudden at that age, but it does seem to be a sensitive age. I wouldn't make a big deal of it, just act calm and talk to him while I am out of eye's reach.

As for whining, I think a little different about that than I see that many others do. I do believe that the whining voice comes from feeling a bit sore, and sometimes I think it is the fear of being told off for whining that causes a sad, nervous voice, which is then perceived as whining. I can remember my parents telling me not to use "that voice", and the fear of failing making me almost cry, therefore sounding like I was "whining". And then (because I as "whining") they wouldn't give me whatever-it-was, so it was a self-fulfilling prophecy and the next time I was almost crying already at the outset of asking for something, since I expected the same thing to happen again. I felt that they didn't really care about my wants.

My approach is to sympathise and not make a big deal of it. Sometimes kids just need a little reassurance to feel better, and the whining disappears. It is not a crime to feel a bit out of sorts.
But if I can't take it, either because I'm a bit tired or because there is just too much of it (which very rarely happens) I just say "Do you think you could try to say that in a normal voice? Because it sounds like you are complaining and I get a bit tired from hearing so much complaining today."
We have very little whining, so it works for us.

[HappyMommy2]

We don't give in to the whining either. I just say "try again" in my normal voice and now my 4yo knows to ask in a normal voice and with manners.

We are teaching our 2 year old the same thing, but with her I have to tell her exactly what to say. After a whiny demand like "I want water", I will say something like "No whining, DDname. Say 'Mama can I please have some water?' " And then she repeats it.

Perhaps try to teach him the normal voice by telling how to ask, and then you can move to a neutral "try again" when he whines.

BTW ... if anybody has a better term than "normal voice" I would love to hear it!! For some reason it puts me off a bit.

[deditus]

I think Raising A Thinking Child by Myrna Shure is also a good book that helps teach skills at his age.

[LynnS6]

A couple of more book suggestions - Playful Parenting really helps me both with techniques and understanding my kids' need to have me take part in their play. It also gives me the 'freedom' to say I'm done, once I've spent time letting them lead the play for a bit. 30 minutes a day can make a difference.

Part of it, I bet, though is personality. If he's an extrovert, he gets his energy from being with other people, probably you right now. So, he is extra needy. As his sister gets more interactive that might abate a bit. I highly recommend Mary Sheedy Kurcinka's books - Raising Your Spirited Child is good, but I also like Kids, Parents & Power Struggles. Both talk about the interaction between your personality and your kids'. Our dd is an extrovert and I'm an introvert (mild, but I still regain my energy by being alone) and when we're both tired, it's really really hard.

Finally, why are you doing the bedtime routine alone? Is it possible for your dh to help? When our kids were that age, I'd do one child and dh would do the other. Then we'd switch. We found that 2 nights with one, and then 2 nights with the other worked better. I know you're nursing, but I bet you can work something out.

[pbjmama]

Yet whenever I leave the room, within a couple of minutes he's shouting 'why have you left me on my own, I don't want to be on my own', even when dd is in the room with him.
This strikes me as an extrovert thing. My ds could play happily by himself for hours. DD is on my heels every moment. Personality can make a big difference.

He constantly demands things and often in a whiny voice that drives me crazy cos it's for things that I would willingly give him, like a drink of water. He's on the verge of tears asking for water, like I wouldn't give it to him.

My method is empowering my kids to do it themselves. Thirsty, okay get a drink. Put a child size pitcher out so he can pour it himself or a stool by the sink. If it isn't something he can do instead of correcting whining I just say what I would like to hear and 9 out of 10 times it gets parroted back to me. Eventually it will stick.

Then bedtimes! Well I know they're a whole issue on their own but again I'll give today as an example, we did our routine as usual, I put him in bed, kiss him goodnight and take dd to breastfeed and put to bed in another room. He starts crying cos his teddy has fallen out of bed, I get go put it back, then he cries cos the door's closed, then cos he nose needs cleaning, then something else.
Bed times are non-negotiation times here. For the little things like you mentioned my ds is expected to take care of himself. If he is feeling insecure I will let him know I will come back and check on him. And I do keep checking until he falls asleep. There is no exchange of words usually but I make sure he sees me looking in.

[titania8]

I don't have much to add, but when I saw the title of your post I said to myself "I bet he's 4!" I am struggling with 4yo twins who are both having varying degrees of this type of behavior.

[rabbitmum]

Originally Posted by titania8

when I saw the title of your post I said to myself "I bet he's 4!"

Me too!

[Kivgaen]

Originally Posted by rabbitmum

As for whining, I think a little different about that than I see that many others do. I do believe that the whining voice comes from feeling a bit sore, and sometimes I think it is the fear of being told off for whining that causes a sad, nervous voice, which is then perceived as whining. I can remember my parents telling me not to use "that voice", and the fear of failing making me almost cry, therefore sounding like I was "whining". And then (because I as "whining") they wouldn't give me whatever-it-was, so it was a self-fulfilling prophecy and the next time I was almost crying already at the outset of asking for something, since I expected the same thing to happen again. I felt that they didn't really care about my wants.

If your parents had said something to you like "I'd LOVE to be able to help you, except that (and then lowered their voice to a playful whisper) you used that voice again... Try again in a normal voice."

Do you believe you still would have felt that fear of failure?

I agree with you to a certain extent. I believe that the WAY we tell our children not to do something makes all the difference in the world. And our attitude at the time also has a huge influence on their moods and attitudes towards being disciplined. Discipline doesn't have to be a bad 4-letter word, it can be gentle, kind and motivating.

[crazy_canuk]

My ds (8) is exactly like this and he's been that way since birth. Yes it's normal, yes it's his personality and yes it's tough to deal with. I have had to take great care in setting up personal boundaries so that he does not suck me dry, emotionally, physically and spiritually. With varying degrees of success.

I have and have read all the books suggested and they do give you some perspective on the problem. The best advice I was ever given was that it's not my job to make him happy. That's his job. I do my best to give him what he needs without giving more than I'm capable of giving. That's all he can ask for.

Things do get better with age and awareness. I can now rationalize with ds more than ever and it does help. It doesn't eliminate the problem but he is more able to accept that he's asking too much of people at times.

That's my take on things.